@Crazy Dodo
I'd hold off on casting Corruption early in your initial cast sequence. Not because you're waiting for Haunt to land (the Haunt debuff doesn't "roll" w/ Corr & will be applied regardless), but because you want to make sure that your initial Shadow Bolt lands 1st (applying the %5crit debuff which DOES roll) & because you want to give time for others to apply debuffs to the target that also roll.

SB > Haunt > UA > Corr > CoA > SB
or maybe even
SB > Haunt > UA > CoA > Corr > SB (which is what I use).

Casting Corr near or at the end of your initial cast sequence is better than having to clip it & recast it shortly after (wasting a global-cd at the very least). Play around with it a bit & see how much time you need based on your raid set-up & adjust accordingly.

Also, try out the mod "ShadowGreenLight" which tracks the debuffs that roll with Corr & will help you decide when it's best to cast initially & when to reapply.

@Angaroth
I never cast Haunt as soon as the cd is up. The DPCT for SB is higher than Haunt, so ideally you want to maximize the number of SBs you cast while minimizing the number of Haunts. Keep in mind that the cd for Haunt is 8sec, but the debuff lasts for 12sec. I can generally squeeze in at least 1-2 extra SBs after Haunt is off cd before I need to reapply the Haunt debuff. In otherwords, spam SB as long as possible without letting the Haunt debuff drop (don't forget to account for travel time).

I don't get the trouble you put yourself in for the first application of corruption. Why do u bother to have isb up before first application of corruption if you are going to recast it when 4t10 buff proc. You can just start fight by casting corruption first, to allow it more ticks and recast it as soon as u get 4t10 buff up.

There are at least 3 problems with casting Corr at the start of the fight rather than near the end of your initial cast sequence.

1. The Shadow Mastery debuff from [Improved Shadow Bolt] is a raid-wide +5% crit chance for all casters, so it should be applied asap. This is the same reason why SB should not be completely replaced by Drain Soul during the execute phase: an occasional SB should be cast to prevent the SM debuff from falling off.

2. You have no idea when the Devious Minds buff from 4t10 will proc. It could be 3sec after casting Unstable Affliction or it could be over a minute after casting UA. You just don't know.

3. Building off of #2, it's not a good idea to start rolling Corr right away because you want to give time for other people in your raid to apply buffs/debuffs that will amp up your Corr. Since you don't know how long it will be before DM procs & you replace your initial Corr, it's just not worth the risk to roll a weak Corruption at the start & hope DM procs soon.

Someone who is good at running sims could probably compare a weak Corr (cast right at the start with no buffs/debuffs) cast immediately vs. an amped up Corr (all applicable raid buffs/debuffs) cast several seconds into the fight & see what the cutoff is for how soon DM would have to proc for the former to become the better option. Typically, I don't see DM proc the 1st time until ~30-50sec into the fight. If I had to guess, I'd say that the cut off is much lower than that. Either way, #1 should still have you casting SB 1st regardless imo.

is it wise to use the infernal as a destro lock too? (only the last 60s of a icc bossfight)

The best way I think is sb-haunt-ua-corr-coa
I've tried to cast 2 sbs in the beginning to get 3 stacks of shadow embrace, but strange thing it makes less dps, than previous variant.
And I'd like to see clear answer about corruption stats. In some topics there is an information, that spd and haste are refreshing. Is it true or not? I want to be sure in this question, because of getting dfo yesterday. Should I recast corruption in the end of buff or not? Also not sure about recasting corruption after 35%. f.e. on saurfang the fight is between 3 and 4 minutes. usually closer to 3. so if I drink wild magic before the fight and use nic, I would have no possibility to use it again on 35%. Do 12% cost loss of 20% corr crit or not? thx

I have tried numerous ways in fights and so far the one i have seen to have max dps with is pre-pot speed cast SB haunt ua coa and corruption. then wait for t10 to proc, use NMIC and then recast corruption. using the speed pot gets corruption rolling with very fast dots and you get lots of SB fillers because of the cast time being low. Like 1.4 sec or so for me. and once t10 is up then with NMIC you get the major crit buff. so it gets high initial damage plus high rolling damage from crits later in the fight. I only use NMIC on fights where i know corruption will be up the entire time without any problem. otherwise i switch it out with RotD or spyglass. below 35% i recast corruption with w/ Wild Magic and t10 proc and NMIC

Also curious of the same, is anyone noticing a DPS loss if NMIC is still on CD during 35% DE phase after reapplying corruption. From what I gather I should pre-pull pop wild magic, await T10 4PC, activate NIC with wild magic pot re-applying corruption--then finally reapply once more at 35% even if NIC is not available. Thanks!

Short answer is its a DPS loss to reapply corruption without NMIC sub 35%

Long answer is it depends on your corruptions crit. The sweet spot where Death's Embrace beats out NMIC is if your corruption crit without NMIC is above 66.67%.


X is value of base damage of your corrutpion
Y is crit percent

[DE] 1.12 * (2XY + (1-Y)X) = 2X (Y+0.2) + X (0.8-Y) [NMIC]
1.12X (2Y + 1 - Y) = X (2Y+0.4 + 0.8 - Y)
1.12X (Y + 1) = X (Y + 1.2)
1.12 Y+1.12 = Y+ 1.2
0.12 Y = 0.08
Y = .66667


Given that you will probably not see 66.67% crit for your corruption without NMIC up, you shouldn't reapply corruption without NMIC. Oh and I might add if you are going to do Wild Magic potting above 35% that would guarantee you shouldn't reapply sub 35% without NMIC.

As for when to use Wild Magic and whether to pre-pot wait a minute and reapply above or just WM sub 35% . That cannot be answered mathematically in any meaningful way without knowing
1) fight length
2) number of corruption ticks pre and post 35%
3) number of corruption ticks before t10 procs pre and post 35%

Since #3 is random, fight length is determined by factors not in your control, and #2 is also random given erradication you are stuck with going with what "feels" right based on your previous goes on whatever boss.

edit: I might add that some fights like putricide where it is probably a DPS loss to Wild magic sub 35% (rather than p2 80-35%), its probably beneficial to do so given the importance of getting him down quickly at that point. So its not always about what makes my recount look the best.

This seems to be a simple problem of figuring out if your Corruption ticks hit harder with the +crit bonus from Nevermelting Ice Crystal (NMIC) or with +10% damage from Death’s Embrace (DE). In order to determine how much each tick from Corr will hit for under these two circumstances we must consider the following (mostly pulled from the OP with a few additions/changes):

Absolute coefficients:
+0.15 (Shadow Mastery)
+1.01 (Spellstone)
+0.10 (Improved Corruption)
+0.05 (Contagion)
+0.05 (Siphon Life)
1+0.23*hit chance (Haunt)
1.15 (Shadow Embracex3)
1.13 (CoE/Earth&Moon/Ebon Plague)
1.03 (Malediction)
1.03 (Sanctified Retribution)
(1+0.12*0.35) (Death's Embrace)

Spell power coefficients:
1.2 Base Coefficient
+0.36 (Empowered Corruption)
+0.30 (Everlasting Affliction)

Crit Modifier:
0.03 (Meta Gem effect)

Crit Chance:
+0.09 (Malediction)
+0.05 (Moonkin Aura/Elemental Oath)
+0.05 (Improved Shadow Bolt/Improved Scorch/Winter's Chill)
+0.03 (Heart of the Crusader/Totem of Wrath)
+0.20 (Nevermelting Ice Crystal)

Note: procs (e.g., Devious Minds), haste & potions are ignored as they are either irrelevant or can be rolled in both situations if you choose.

Damage done = Absolute Coefficients * (base damage + ((sum of spell power coefficents) * Spelldamage))*Hit chance*(1+Crit chance)

With NMIC, but without DE:
(1+0.15(Shadow Mastery)+1.01(Spellstone)+0.10(Improved Corruption)+0.05(Contagion)+0.05(Siphon Life))*(1+0.23*hit chance)(Haunt)*1.15(Shadow Embrace)*1.13(CoE)*1.03(Malediction)*1.03(Sanctified Retribution)*(1080(base damage) + ((1.2(Base Coeff)+0.36(Emp Corr)+0.30(Everl. Affl.))*(spell power)))* (1+1.09*(crit chance+0.05 (Moonkin Aura/Elemental Oath)+0.05 (Improved Shadow Bolt/Improved Scorch/Winter's Chill)+0.03 (Heart of the Crusader/Totem of Wrath)+0.20(Nevermelting Ice Crystal)) =

4*(1080+(1.86*spellpower))*(1+(1.09*(crit chance+0.33)))=

With DE, but without NMIC:
(1+0.15(Shadow Mastery)+1.01(Spellstone)+0.10(Improved Corruption)+0.05(Contagion)+0.05(Siphon Life))*(1+0.23*hit chance)(Haunt)*1.15(Shadow Embrace)*1.13(CoE)*1.03(Malediction)*1.03(Sanctified Retribution)*(1+0.12*0.35) (Death's Embrace)*(1080(base damage) + ((1.2(Base Coeff)+0.36(Emp Corr)+0.30(Everl. Affl.))*(spell power)))* (1+1.03*(crit chance+0.05 (Moonkin Aura/Elemental Oath)+0.05 (Improved Shadow Bolt/Improved Scorch/Winter's Chill)+0.03 (Heart of the Crusader/Totem of Wrath))) =

4.168*(1080+(1.86*spellpower))*(1+(1.09*(crit chance+0.13)))=

Without plotting these formulas (something I’ll probably never get around to doing) I would guess that there’s a cut off point in which one of the methods is better than the other if your sp is less/greater than X while your crit is less/greater than Y. I’m not going to go into those details, so just use the formulas provided & you can figure it out for yourself based on your own stats. I’ll use 4500sp & 30% crit as an example:

With NMIC, but without DE:
4*(1080+(1.86*4500))*(1+(1.09*(0.30+0.33)))= ~25957 or 4326/tick

With DE, but without NMIC:
4.168*(1080+(1.86*4500))*(1+(1.09*(0.30+0.13)))= ~18461 or 3077/tick

In this example you can see that it is clearly better to continue rolling NMIC below 35% (if it is still on cooldown), rather than recasting Corr for the DE buff. Obviously your spellpower values will fluctuate throughout a fight due to various procs, Demonic Pact (if available), etc, but this should give you a rough estimate of how much of a DPS gain it is to continue rolling NMIC or not.

Edit:
It looks like Burberri beat me to the punch a bit. Buffed, your crit chance needs to be >66.67% without NMIC before reapplying Corr with DE becomes viable.

would reapplying corruption at 35% with WM + t10 be a dps loss compared to the NMIC+t10?

Thanks for the info, I hadn't realized that this change had happened.

Yea, you're right. I forgot to calculate the crit modifier & instead just tossed in the value for the meta gem. However, I'm not so sure that it's 1.09 either.

The meta gem boosts total damage by 3% on a crit, which changes crit damage from 150% to (150% * 103%) = 154.5%, which makes the crit bonus +54.5%. This 54.5% number is what talents (Pandemic & Ruin) effect, giving you a crit bonus of +109%, for a total crit damage 209%, as you demonstrated above.

However, while I could be completely wrong, I don't think Corr works in this way. Note that Pandemic "grants the periodic damage from your Corruption and Unstable Affliction spells the ability to critically hit for 100% increased damage". In other words, your Corr can only ever hit for 100% or 200% damage, but never for 150% damage because without the talent Corr is incapable of critically striking. If this works like how it sounds, the Base Multiplier would be 2.0 & not 1.5. Also, bonus damage from the talent would not be considered, since none is granted (only Haunt is effected by this). This would result in a total crit modifier of 1.06 instead of 1.09 for Corr: (2.0 * 1.03 -1) = 1.06. Granted I have absolutely no idea if 1.06 is correct (as I stated above, I could be completely wrong), but it seems probable (or at least possible) based on how the tooltip reads.

I'm going to edit the formula in my original post to reflect the changes discussed here, but because I'm only speculating on the 1.06 crit modifier, I'm going to go ahead & use 1.09 for now unless someone else can verify the 1.06. Thanks again Flyfunner for catching my mistakes.