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Old 12/19/08, 9:03 AM   #181
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
I'm sorry but I didn't understand your math at all. 30,875 spell power? I don't even think you have that much spell power to lose. Either way, I woke up this morning realizing that I did the calculation for MC increase in damage wrong. So I re-did it, and it came out that (3/3) Cataclysm is better than (2/3) MC. But point by point, MC is higher DPS than Cataclysm.

So, the point I'm trying to make is that hit capping your destruction spells with Cata, when your affliction spell are hit capped by Suppression, by taking points in Cataclysm over MC is less DPS overall for you. That means that there's no change in your gearing, since gemming for hit has been shown to be less DPS. And going over hit cap in affliction is also a waste in talent points. (aka. if you hitcap yourself with gems in affliction, then those 3 points in Suppression should be going to some other DPS increasing talents which would make these calculations more complicated than necessary.)

So we're doing a pure talent to talent comparison.

Let's take my WWS report from Patchwerks where I was hitcapped with Affliction but had a 97% hitrate with Destruction: Wow Web Stats

DPS Lost
I had a 2.1% miss rate with Shadowbolt (or 1 missed hit) and 6.7% miss rate with Immolate (or 1 missed hit). On average my Shadowbolt will hit for:

Average hit * (1-crit rate) + Average crit * crit rate = 4541*.62 + 9186*.36 = 6122.38

Assuming that when I miss Immolate, I'm missing 1.5s of filler. Therefore, total damage lost is:

6122.38 [lost SB] + 6122.38*(1.5/2.5) [lost filler time] = 9795.808 damage or 9795.808 damage/3min 57s = 41.33 dps or 13.77dps per point

DPS Gained
Next, let's look at the DPS gained via MC. By going into the log and filtering it to see my MC refreshes (since they don't count as buff gained in the buff tab), I can calculate my MC uptime: Wow Web Stats)

It shows me that MC was down between:
02:08'16.750->02:08'35.218 = 18.468s
02:09'36.437->02:09'42.297 = 4.86s
02:09'58.453->02:10'08.640 = 10.187s
02:10'18.640->02:10'38.234 = 19.594
02:10'52.281->02:10'59.484 = 7.203s

Death occured less than 10s after the last refresh.

Total MC-down time= 60.312s
Total MC-up time = 237s-60.312s = 176.688 OR 176.688/237 = 74.55% up time

So we're going to simplify this and make the assumption that this up time will give us 75% of all direct damage with MC and 75% of all DoT ticks with MC (so MC is distrubuted evenly with all DoT ticks and Direct Damage hits and criticals.)

So, let x = the total damage of Immolate without MC.

x*1.1*.7455 + x*(1-.7455) = 112855
.82005*x + .2545*x = 112855
1.07455*x = 112855
x = 105025.35

Therefore, total damage increase by MC is:

.1*.7455*105025.35 = 7829 OR 7829/237 = 33.03 dps or 16.515dps per point

Now, the problem with this is the fact that the 3rd point of MC would at most cap out MC uptime (so it would do less than the previous two points.)

So lets assume that we have 100% MC uptime with 3/3, then the MC damage increase would be:
105025.35 (x) * .1 = 10502.535 or 44dps or 14.77dps per point on average.

Therefore, 1 point in MC is 1dps more than 1 point in Cataclysm. (A trivial difference really.)

Now I have a question. I take 2/3 MC because that's all my spec allows for, since I take 2/3 Eradication. Is the 2nd Eradication point more DPS than the 3rd point of MC?

Last edited by rutiene : 12/19/08 at 9:24 AM.

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Old 12/19/08, 9:14 AM   #182
Mindaika
Piston Honda
 
Mindaika's Avatar
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Frostwolf
[quote=rutiene;1022290]I'm sorry but I didn't understand your math at all. 30,875 spell power? I don't even think you have that much spell power to lose. Either way, I woke up this morning realizing that I did the calculation for MC increase in damage wrong. So I re-did it, and it came out that (3/3) Cataclysm is better than (2/3) MC. But point by point, MC is higher DPS than Cataclysm.
/QUOTE]

It's a European custom: 30,785 == 30.785

But yeah, I read that as "30 thousand SP" too at first glance.

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Old 12/19/08, 9:47 AM   #183
Emolate
Bald Bull
 
Emolate's Avatar
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by rutiene View Post
Now I have a question. I take 2/3 MC because that's all my spec allows for, since I take 2/3 Eradication. Is the 2nd Eradication point more DPS than the 3rd point of MC?
Yes. At least it has been every time I've run Simulation Craft and the spreadsheet with my data.

Last edited by Emolate : 12/19/08 at 9:59 AM. Reason: snark

Originally Posted by Zeln View Post
I'm pretty sure the only reason you're on this planet is the phone rang and startled your dad.

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Old 12/20/08, 3:03 AM   #184
Nnayr
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Spinebreaker
Not sure if it's been discussed but why is pandemic only triggering 1 damage on the heroic test dummies?

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Old 12/20/08, 6:42 AM   #185
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Nnayr View Post
Not sure if it's been discussed but why is pandemic only triggering 1 damage on the heroic test dummies?
Maybe the bug thread would be a better place to discuss that.

On metagems, I think it would be worth mentioning that [Ember Skyflare Diamond] requires 3 red gems, while the other spelldmg gems have worse requirements. Using this gem will give you the most freedom to get the best regular gems. You could also mention that [Purified Twilight Opal] isn't in the game yet.

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Old 12/20/08, 8:25 AM   #186
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Nnayr View Post
Not sure if it's been discussed but why is pandemic only triggering 1 damage on the heroic test dummies?
If you look at your combat log, technically you're only doing 1 damage per hit to the target dummy no matter what spell/skill you use. Since pandemic does 100% of the tick it procs off of, it only does 1 damage as well.

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Old 12/22/08, 12:57 PM   #187
Jarawolf
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Sunstrider (EU)
Affliction Dot Uptime from WWS Spreadsheet

Hi all,

I have made a spreadsheet that can calculate dot uptime, cast uptime and dpcs from a WWS report.

- dot Uptime: Percentage of time a DoT is ticking
- cast uptime: Percentage of time spent casting
- dpcs: Damage per second you use to cast a spell

This is how to use the spreadsheet:

- First: get a google account - otherwise you can't use it.
- Second: Use Firefox - or the copy-paste part won't work properly.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...wNiXAg&newcopy

1. Find a boss fight in WWS
2. Click on a warlock - so you new see one warlocks performance in a single bossfight.
3. Copy the entire page (CTRL-A - CTRL-C)
4. Paste it on the first sheet of the spreadsheet called "WWS paste"
5. Go to the "Result" page to see the results of the calculation.
(6. Consider modifying sheet 2 "Character info" to match your character.)

On the "Results" sheet you see the cast uptime, the dot uptime for each DOT plus a DPCS calculation (damage per cast second) for each DOT.

I also calculate the DPS based on cast seconds and fight duration. Your true dps is guaranteed to be somewhere between these two.

The spreadsheet is pretty accurate - but not 100%.
- Instant SB's still count as 2.5sec cast time
- Any AoE will destroy the cast uptime calculation.
- If you have Haunt (configured on sheet 2) Corruption is assumed to be cast once only.
- Your haste is considered - if you enter it on Sheet 2

Feedback appreciated.

/jara

Last edited by Jarawolf : 12/22/08 at 1:05 PM.

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Old 12/22/08, 4:24 PM   #188
turturin
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by rutiene View Post
If you look at your combat log, technically you're only doing 1 damage per hit to the target dummy no matter what spell/skill you use. Since pandemic does 100% of the tick it procs off of, it only does 1 damage as well.
To add to this, don't report this behavior as a bug. Blizzard has said that target dummies are "working as intended", so you can expect this behavior to remain. Sorry I don't have a an actual blue post to quote, its been a while (iirc they addressed this on the PTR forum in advance of the WoTLK launch).

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Old 12/22/08, 5:27 PM   #189
Alithia
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
Hi guys,

don't want to bother you with this question, but what would be your dreamgear for the 55/0/16 "1 hit spec".

I still cannot decide on my "dreamgear", every day I could change little thing.

Where do you get your hit from? Dying curse, Malygos-10 robe, Gothik-10-ring?

I know, this seems like a lazy question, but the devil is in the detail and help will be appreciated a lot.

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Old 12/22/08, 7:59 PM   #190
imtsensational
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Alithia View Post
Hi guys,

don't want to bother you with this question, but what would be your dreamgear for the 55/0/16 "1 hit spec".

I still cannot decide on my "dreamgear", every day I could change little thing.

Where do you get your hit from? Dying curse, Malygos-10 robe, Gothik-10-ring?

I know, this seems like a lazy question, but the devil is in the detail and help will be appreciated a lot.
Dream Gear is...a dream :P But, there are tools to help you choose upgrades as you work toward your ideal set.

There is a program called Rawr that can help you play dress-up. It's what I use to look at how my stats change with upgrades. link: Rawr The warlock module is not complete yet, but it helps me hone in on a gear combo that benefits me most.

Last edited by imtsensational : 12/23/08 at 5:52 AM.

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Old 12/23/08, 2:05 AM   #191
Cohren
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Antonidas
Originally Posted by imtsensational View Post
Dream Gear is...a dream :P But, there are tools to help you choose upgrades as you work toward your ideal set.

There is a program called Rawr that can help you play dress-up. It's what I use to look at how my stats change with upgrades. link: Rawr The warlock module is not complete yet, but it helps me hone in on a gear combo that benefits me most.

Also see: http://elitistjerks.com/998449-post269.html
I don't think that post you linked is accurate anymore. I think the general consensus is leaning towards 2 pieces of T7 and the rest filled in with the best in slot off set pieces.

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Old 12/23/08, 5:55 AM   #192
imtsensational
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Cohren View Post
I don't think that post you linked is accurate anymore. I think the general consensus is leaning towards 2 pieces of T7 and the rest filled in with the best in slot off set pieces.
How did I miss that discussion?! Time to back-track...

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Old 12/23/08, 12:00 PM   #193
Cohren
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Antonidas
It's on this topic, Value of 4pT7

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Old 12/23/08, 2:11 PM   #194
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
I'm not sure whether 4pc is included in the perfect set, but I don't think that thread came to a conclusion.

I consider "dream gear" lists to be pointless anyway, only important question is "what can I get for the fight my guild is currently wiping on?".

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Old 12/23/08, 2:55 PM   #195
turturin
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
I'm not sure whether 4pc is included in the perfect set, but I don't think that thread came to a conclusion.

I consider "dream gear" lists to be pointless anyway, only important question is "what can I get for the fight my guild is currently wiping on?".
Best in slot gear lists don't really matter until we reach the top level of gear. It's more interesting imo to discuss the pieces of gear that "seem OP for T7" and we might expect to last well beyond the current tier.

Taken from this view, I'm only really expecting the 25-man trinkets and the ilevel 226 cape from Sarth (with 2 or more drakes) to serve in that capacity. The turning tide off heroic KT may also last well into T8.

I guess my point is I'm not really worried about absolute best in slot for any of the armor slots...my goal being to find a well-itemized ilvl 200 piece or pretty much any ilvl 213 piece and be done with it. Where I'm really trying to be selective are the trinket and weapon slots.

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