The way Hit is used to calculate DPS seems wrong to me. You CANNOT just multiply Hit% for DoT DPS calculation. The reason is this:

Assume, you have an insta-cast DoT with 10k damage that lasts for 15 seconds. Also assume your Hit% = 90%, Crit% = 0, Haste% = 0. According to your formula, you would do 10k * 90% = 9k damage over 15 seconds, i.e. DPS = 600.

However, this is not true. Assume you cast a DoT and it doesn't land. You recast. So the correct formula of calculating DoT DPS integrating Hit should be this:

[Overall Damage] / ([DoT Duration] - [Cast Time] + [Cast Time] / Hit%)

[Cast Time] would be 1.5sec divided by (100%+Haste%), if you want to apply Haste% as well. This formula applies Hit% to the time, rather than the actual damage. Basically, how long does it take for my DoT to land, and do the intended xxx damage over the DoT duration. With this formula and the previous example, you would do 10k damage over 15 - 1.5 + 1.5 / 0.9 = 15.17 seconds, i.e. DPS = 659.20.

Overall, your theory crafting is pretty accurate, but Hit is over emphasized. It has a lesser value than Spell Power.

However, you may still want to prefer Hit over Spell Power for the obvious reason: If Haunt doesn't land, your rotation is messed up. In my case, I cast Imm right after UA, beause they have the same duration. Without 100% Hit%, that gets screwed up too...

Yes, that is true, Damage done = Damage * Hit chance is a poor way of computation for dots - I already said that in the main post and it was pointed out before. So far, the only better way to compute it that is still easy to understand is the one you pointed out, considering it as a "longer cast time".
However, this also affects the uptime of the dots (where I assume 100%, which is, of course, also not true), making it more difficult to build in, and as you said, it screws up rotations, especially when haunt misses and so on.
I'm still trying to figure out an easy way to include all of this.
At the moment, the result is "hit is very, very important". As I strongly believe that this is true, I am not too worried about this. Maybe I'll find some better way for the computation, though.

Ok, a little mathematical help please. I'm trying to figure out why Mark of the War Prisoner is not in the trinket list. With 73 hit rating and 346 SP for 20 sec use with 2m cooldown, I get 73*1.407+346*1.312/6=178 dps. Is my math wrong, or should it be added?

Edit: List is updated I see.

Nothing wrong with your math - the mark is certainly a viable option if you don't have Dying Curse yet. But 144 hit rating just from the trinkets will probably put you over the cap, unless you've tried very hard to avoid hit rating on other items.

So if you do have Dying Curse, the badge trinket would probably give you better results. And of course the best combo is easily Dying Curse + Illustration.

Has anyone figured out yet if Hyperspeed Accelerators are now better than Exceptional Spellpower?

The cooldown is now 1 minute (even though the tooltip will say otherwise.) and grants 340 haste for 10 seconds.

Math isn't one of my stronger points, but am I correct in saying it's something like this;
340*10/60= ~56 passive haste?

A bit less if you factor in that it's not likely to be up 100%. Would this be the superior 'enchant' for engineers?

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, didn't see it at least.

Edit:

Never mind, even if it were 56 passive haste, spell power is still a bit better.

Since you can combine it with other trinkets & procs it should be worth more than 28 spell power for most casters.

The spreadsheet does these calculations on the fly and automatically spits out the value of gear stats.

Unfortunately, some people are not satisfied by some numbers coming out of nowhere. The goal here is not to compete with spreadsheets (that fight would be lost from the beginning), the idea is to understand how the spells / the talents / the specs work and WHY some stats are better than others, next to a lot of other interesting discussions about affliction topics.

Do you guys know anything about gemming? Should I focus on resilience or stamina?

How about metas? Should I get the power earthsiege diamond with +32 stamina (but requires 3 blues) or the trenchant earthsiege diamond with +25 spellpower?

The way I figure is that if stamina is more important, I'd meet the requirement for blue sockets by using stamina or resilience gems so that the power earthsiege diamond is a nobrainer. However if resilience is more important, I'd use the +16/+20 resilience gems which will make using the stamina meta much harder.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

yeah im not too sure what the problem is either. i just did grob last night with some new gear and only pushed out 4.2k dps as well. and recount did show me at the top with 4.2k but looking at the wws it shows me way lower then that. recount showed me top dmg as well and wws doesnt show that. here is the link. it seems wws isn't calculating the doomguard which is huge increase....
Wow Web Stats


maybe scrolls, pots vs lifetapping, etc? i think i have a few points in hit when i can start pulling some out of them. not too sure. any extra pointers would be great

Simply put: you are wearing 10-man gear and I even see a green on there. You do not have a single best in slot item and in fact a large number of them are pretty terrible. You are at least 1% over the hit cap, realistically 2% since you could have Draenei in your group. Your gear is over 200 spellpower lower than where it could be if not a full 3-400.

Your DoT uptime is fairly poor. With a 4:18 presence, you should be able to get a max of 86 tickets on all of your dots (more for CoA obviously). Your DoT uptime is as follows:
91% Corruption
91% UA
86% SL
86% CoA
84% Immolate

Also, given that your guild's fight was 4:24 long, it would be reasonable to assume that the <25% time was roughly 1 minute worth and yet you only managed 2 ticks of Drain Soul?

Simply put you need to work on casting your spells properly.

Drain Soul should be thought as five 3-second channeled spells instead of one 15-second channeled spell. So you should definitely keep all of your DoTs up (keeping immolate up is disputed) especially haunt. You should not have a problem with shadow embrace if you haunt after every cooldown. I would suggest that you read this post making it easier to keep DOTs up during DS: http://elitistjerks.com/1012433-post105.html.

There is a bug with refreshing dots where if the DoT currently on it is more powerful. This causes immolate to hit the target with the DD portion but the DOT portion is not refreshed. This can be prevented by making sure that you aren't clipping immolate's final tick when you are reapplying it. If you do make a mistake and clip immolate, immediately reapply it, it may screw up your rotation but it is better than just waiting until you refresh unstable affliction.

the gear thing is understandable as i've been 80 played for 9 days total. but for my rotation I understand. I am failing on the drain soul and I will work on that.

also thank you for the reply.

I changed the way hit rating affects DoTs.

Short result: Hit loses some of its value, but is still the best stat to max out.

The new model looks like this:

When you miss a dot, you usually don't wait for its duration until you recast it. Instead, you just recast it immediately (or let's say as fast as possible). Therefore, Average Damage = Base Damage * Hit Chance is not a good way to compute dot damage.
So what does a dot miss actually do? You have to recast it immediately, meaning you have twice the cast time, or
(2-hit chance)*cast time in the average.
The second effect is a longer "dot gap" or a lower uptime of the dot. So, I changed the number of dot casts of every dot but corruption to 95% MINUS the time wasted by casting the dot, looking like this for a 60s-window:

number of casts = 60s*95% / (dot duration + average cast time of the dot).

As the average cast time is affected by hit, so is the number of dot casts within the intervall (and its dps contribution).
Mana costs are computed exactly the same way.

The effect of this is a slight decrease of the importance of hit rating: Hit for dots has ROUGHLY the effect that haste has for direct damage spells. Nevertheless, hit stays the most important stat, but I think the model is more accurate now.
It was funny to see that although this is quite a change, the ratings remained stable.
Next will be recomputation of the item values *sigh*.

This should say "the Talent Soul Siphon".

Reslilience is totally unimportant in PvE. Stamina while nice is also a fairly low priority.

My understanding is that stat priorities are basically as follows:

Hit (until capped) > SP > haste > crit > SPI > INT/STA

Its possible some of those may flip-flop a bit but those are your basic priorities when looking at gems/gear.

Hey, my first post here, but I've been reading the forum for quite a while and it has proven tremendous help for my performance in raids.

I just wanna post our most recent WWS on Patchwerk, it went pretty good but we didn't have a moonkin, it was for the 20 man achievement.

6.4k DPS as Haunt/Ruin with the basic SB, Haunt, UA, Immo, Corr, CoA, SL rotation.

Wow Web Stats

Some queries..
Which would you consider better, Embrace of the Spider or Sundial of the Exiled? and why?
When casting Drain Soul I noticed that my ticks have huge variance on damage, I'm wondering if it takes account for when the dots fall of even if you applied it while all were up?

And uhm, any feedback would be helpful

Ask anything you want if you wish to know anything.

- Decayus

I don't know if you considered and just didn't mention it or didn't consider but a missed Haunt can't be recast immediately and will cost you 20% of your dot damage until it can be reapplied as well as an additional global cooldown to renew corruption. I wouldn't know where to start in trying to model this but it would effect the weighting of hit over other stats quite a bit I imagine.

Yes, this is included in the haunt modifier, which is not 1.2 but 1+0.2*hit chance of haunt.

Is it worth to reapply insta-cast dots while running even by clipping them? SL, corr maybe, not CoA coz last ticks do more damage.

I would if you think you aren't going to get to hit him for at least 10-15 seconds. A perfect example would be when fighting Gothik right before he teleports to the other side (assuming you aren't going to teleport and follow him!)

Another example would be on Heigan, especially if you are not confident with reapplying DOT's while dancing.

I see that you got a doomguard here, and early enough to do a good amount of damage. I also heard somewhere someone mentioned that we can summon them without killing someone now - is this really true? I can't find any mention of it officially anywhere.

If not true, wouldn't it be dangerous to summon a doomguard in a fight? I can't imagine how lucky you got with Curse of Doom if you did it that way..