Elitist Jerks Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread

 01/15/09, 9:59 AM #376 ScarFeis Glass Joe   candemor Gnome Warlock   Zul'Jin (EU) Hi, I'm a newbie in this forum and newbie in affliction. by now i am 0/41/30 but i want to change to affliction. and i want to know if you can give me a build and a rotation to maximize dps, and maybe the keys of this build too. thanks xD and sorry my newbie question.
01/15/09, 10:08 AM   #377
chang
Glass Joe

Human Warlock

Frostmourne (EU)
 Originally Posted by ScarFeis Hi, I'm a newbie in this forum and newbie in affliction. by now i am 0/41/30 but i want to change to affliction. and i want to know if you can give me a build and a rotation to maximize dps, and maybe the keys of this build too. thanks xD and sorry my newbie question.
Hey ScarFeis. You are posting this question in a forum and even in a thread that already contains tons of useful information. I think the best would be to spend some time reading threads in this forum. All you want (build, rotation, ...) has already been discussed. And you can not expect that someone will give a summary for you (at least I would not do that).

01/15/09, 11:51 AM   #378
Kalle
Von Kaiser

Wrathbringer (EU)
 Originally Posted by chang The expected number of ticks is thus 1 / p, leading to an expected phase length of 1 / p * 3 + 30 = 3 / p + 30. So we have 12 / (3 / p + 30) for the expected uptime. The values are 11.429%, 16,471%, 20.000% for 1, 2, 3 points invested in Eradication. If we assume that the average time until the first Corruption tick after the cooldown is 1.5 seconds or 0 seconds (insted of 3 used in the calculation above) results change slightly, but not as much as for the wrong calculations. (You would get the same result with the formular some posts before mine. In fact there it is calculated "by hand", what I calculate with knowledge about the geometric distribution).
Sorry, but I think this is (slightly) wrong, too. You get an uptime of 12/33 for p=1 but in this case every corruption tick would proc eradication and the uptime should be 12/30. I actually assumed that the corruption tick happens 0s after the cd expires (which means t0=0 in my formula).

01/15/09, 12:11 PM   #379
chang
Glass Joe

Human Warlock

Frostmourne (EU)
 Originally Posted by Kalle Sorry, but I think this is (slightly) wrong, too. You get an uptime of 12/33 for p=1 but in this case every corruption tick would proc eradication and the uptime should be 12/30. I actually assumed that the corruption tick happens 0s after the cd expires (which means t0=0 in my formula).
First of all, my calculations are in principle the same as yours, just somehow simplified by using known facts about the geometric distribution. So my calculations should be easier to follow, but results do not change. With my post I wanted to critizise people that average over the uptime percentage. And I have seen a lot of calculations doing that...

Back to your last post: Well this depends a lot on game mechanics and the programming of Blizz. I have no idea what happens, if the corruption tick and the end of the cooldown happen at the exact same time. That is why I have written t_0 could be anything between 0 and 3. For the calculation you cited I used t_0 = 3 which is probably not the smartest choice, depending on game mechanics.

Assuming a perfect Corruption uptime without clipping: If the corruption that happens at the same time of the end of the cooldown can proc Eradication, a value of t_0 = 0 would be appropriate, if not, a value of t_0 = 3 would be appropriate. If reapplying Corruption by Haunt is clipping, any value between 0 and 3 can be possibel for t_0, so perhaps t_0 = 1.5 would be a smart choice.

But in fact, the relative differences for the gain of 1 / 2 / 3 talent points using t_0 = 0 and t_0 = 3 on the other extreme, are not that big. So independent of the value of t_0 the second and third talent points are a higher dps boost compared to wrong calculations. And that is the important fact, I want to show.

Some days ago, I used only 1 point in Eradication, now I use 2, since I think the second point is also worth skilling...

And btw:
 Originally Posted by Kalle ...the corruption tick happens 0s after the cd expires...
"0s" combined with "after" does not make any sense This is what I meant with game mechanics. It could either proc or nor...

 01/15/09, 2:23 PM #380 Kalle Von Kaiser   Xardas Undead Warlock   Wrathbringer (EU) Ok, seeem I just misread your post. Haunt doesn't cause any clipping. But if you look at combatlog data (the file, not the ingame display), you'll see that time between ticks isn't always axactly 3s, it can be less or more than 3s. I don't know if that means that it would be possible that corruption ticks just before the cd expires or if it's just an inaccuracy of the combatlog system. But the difference is so small that it doesn't really matter.
 01/16/09, 12:59 AM #381 Strangle Glass Joe   Strangle Human Warlock   Alexstrasza Looking for opinions on gearing for the hitcap vs talenting for the hit cap as affliction. Prior to having any gear I maxxed out suppression and cataclysm and gemmed to get to the cap. I'm now finding myself with the gear to reduce points in suppression and cataclysm and not have to gem for hit at all. I've read the hit thread on this forum and have used Leulier to attempt to analyze but I'm wondering if there is a general consensus, so here's the question: What is a better DPS increase, gear or points? In other words, are talent points better spent in supp and cat so as to forego hit gear for more dps oriented gear, or, is it better to simply go for the better itemized gear and move talent points accordingly? I suspect it's the latter, WTB best in slot gear thread . It would appear that the points in the aff tree made available by giving up suppression don't buy an aff lock much. Whereas in the dest tree they buy you some ISB points, or MC, or whatever. To put it another way, is buying 26 points of hit for 2 talent points worth more dps than "buying" it from gear or gems? Is 52 points of hit worth 4 talent points? You get the idea. -S
01/16/09, 7:45 AM   #382
phulshof
Von Kaiser

Human Warlock

Aggramar (EU)
 Originally Posted by Strangle To put it another way, is buying 26 points of hit for 2 talent points worth more dps than "buying" it from gear or gems? Is 52 points of hit worth 4 talent points? You get the idea. -S
I was struggling with the same issue, but found that hit equipment is rather easy to come by (almost impossible to avoid). Just a week ago I had a hit rating of 473 + 3% from my talents. Since then I've reduced my hit rating a bit, and decided upon an intermediate solution that works for me: 54/0/17 haunt/ruin. My reasoning is simple (and probably flawed): I want to have the same hit bonus from my talents for both affliction and destruction without wasting too many points on low level affliction talents that I don't need. This leaves me with 2x1 points in the hit rate talents. I'm sure some people will tell me Dark Pact is not needed, but you'll pry it from my cold dead fingers.

My equipment still needs a lot of work (as do I in the way of playing a warlock; I started playing WoW on November 21 2008), but you can find it at Sonate EU armory.

Last edited by phulshof : 01/16/09 at 7:54 AM.

01/16/09, 10:47 AM   #383
Gov
Glass Joe

Bloodhoof
 Originally Posted by blecap Hello. I've a serious problem over here, while some of the warlocks in here are able to hit 5k+ on Patchwerk, I'm struggling. My stats are 2200 SD w/ Fel Armor, 311 Hit, 15% crit and 590 Haste. Raid composition consists of oomkin, elemental shaman, UH DK and i'm only doin 3k-4k dps. My rotation is SB, Haunt, UA-Immo, corr, CoA, SL and spam SB. I do not clip my dots as i refresh at the correct time once the last tick had tick off. When boss is at <25% i refresh whatever dots needed except for immolate and drainsoul instead of SB. My glyphs are SL, Immo and Corr. Please help.
From looking at WMO top worldwide dps locks on Patchwerk I'm seeing a Doomguard placing in the top 3 of their dmg output. SB being the #1, crits for around 25-50%. And drain soul or Corr is the #3 dmg out% with about 10 & 50 tics respectively.

I'm also noticing more imp firebolt spam from affliction locks in some logs. These things may help up your dps.

01/16/09, 12:05 PM   #384
tuberqlosis
Glass Joe

Human Warlock

Black Dragonflight
This is a complete change of topic, but I saw something on MMO-Champion and wanted to bring it up for discussion. It is from a GC post originating here (Post #31):

 Honestly, there is a technical limitation that prevents hots (and dots) from being able to crit. We are removing that limitation though, so who knows.
Is this "limitation removal" a secondary effect that we already have (pandemic) or is this a fundamental (assuming code/programming) change that will allow our dots themselves to crit?

01/16/09, 1:41 PM   #385
blecap
Banned

Absinte

Thaurissan
 Originally Posted by Gov From looking at WMO top worldwide dps locks on Patchwerk I'm seeing a Doomguard placing in the top 3 of their dmg output. SB being the #1, crits for around 25-50%. And drain soul or Corr is the #3 dmg out% with about 10 & 50 tics respectively. I'm also noticing more imp firebolt spam from affliction locks in some logs. These things may help up your dps.
Yeah. I did summon a doomguard though. Just didn't know why i couldn't hit over 5k-6k dps as afflic. Tbh i know my class well.

01/16/09, 2:27 PM   #386
teneran
Von Kaiser

Tauren Druid

Skullcrusher
 Originally Posted by blecap Hello. I've a serious problem over here, while some of the warlocks in here are able to hit 5k+ on Patchwerk, I'm struggling. My stats are 2200 SD w/ Fel Armor, 311 Hit, 15% crit and 590 Haste. Raid composition consists of oomkin, elemental shaman, UH DK and i'm only doin 3k-4k dps. My rotation is SB, Haunt, UA-Immo, corr, CoA, SL and spam SB. I do not clip my dots as i refresh at the correct time once the last tick had tick off. When boss is at <25% i refresh whatever dots needed except for immolate and drainsoul instead of SB. My glyphs are SL, Immo and Corr. Please help.
One of the things that may be holding back your DPS is you're may not be hit capped. With full talents (and no dranei or shadow priest) to be capped you need 368 hit (14%). Perhaps you have those in your group/raid and that's getting you to the cap, myself, i preferto be self sufficient in case we don't have a shadowpriest on a particular 10 man. If you are not hit capped, get hit capped first before any other stat. That will help.

01/16/09, 2:56 PM   #387
Trickykid
Don Flamenco

Gnome Warlock

Turalyon
 Originally Posted by tuberqlosis This is a complete change of topic, but I saw something on MMO-Champion and wanted to bring it up for discussion. It is from a GC post originating here (Post #31): Is this "limitation removal" a secondary effect that we already have (pandemic) or is this a fundamental (assuming code/programming) change that will allow our dots themselves to crit?
Given that they said it's going to be removed, I'd imagine that pandemic was the best work-around at the time. Future implementations will probably be more graceful than making crits show up as a different spell. It's likely pretty far out from now since they'd need to rework pandemic and all DoT class DPS tuning.

01/16/09, 4:00 PM   #388
phulshof
Von Kaiser

Human Warlock

Aggramar (EU)
 Originally Posted by teneran One of the things that may be holding back your DPS is you're may not be hit capped. With full talents (and no dranei or shadow priest) to be capped you need 368 hit (14%). Perhaps you have those in your group/raid and that's getting you to the cap, myself, i preferto be self sufficient in case we don't have a shadowpriest on a particular 10 man. If you are not hit capped, get hit capped first before any other stat. That will help.
What I usually do is carry extra equipment with a high hit rate for such an occasion. In my case, that's an ebonweave robe and ebonweave gloves. It's often wise to check what kind of buffs your party/raid will give you before entering any boss fights.

01/16/09, 9:53 PM   #389
Von Kaiser

Draenor (EU)
 Originally Posted by Trickykid Given that they said it's going to be removed, I'd imagine that pandemic was the best work-around at the time. Future implementations will probably be more graceful than making crits show up as a different spell. It's likely pretty far out from now since they'd need to rework pandemic and all DoT class DPS tuning.
Pandemic screams "hotfix". That wouldn't be so bad if it didn't cost 3 talent points I could easily place somewhere else to get some more dps. Any restriction from critting should be removed imo.

 01/17/09, 3:50 PM #390 Demondan Glass Joe   Demondan Undead Warlock   Vashj (EU) Perhaps these questions are better off in the pet thread, but they're about talents too and my spec is based on this thread. This is my spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft 1. Is the felhunter bug fixed yet, now or in 3.0.8? If not, how severe is it? 2. Should I go with an improved or unimproved imp, or felhunter? If imp, should I go with my felhunter when there's no disc priest around and no other lock with felhunter? If so, this would make the eventual imp talents useless. 3. If, despite the chance that there's no disc priest or other felhunter around, I should spec for imp, what talents should I drop to get what imp talents? The possibilities are dropping imp. SB (2 points) as it doesn't improve dots, MC (1 of 2 points) if only 1 point in the talent is enough, and Eradication (1 of 2 points) if the 0.9 % haste I get from the 2nd point is worse than an imp talent. The talents I can get with these points are improved imp and demonic power. However, I can only remove 2 destruction points. 4. If I should get the imp talents, would the imp in its improved state be better than the felhunter assuming no divine spirit and other felhunter? More importantly, would the imp be better than felhunter, the talents I could keep instead of improving the imp AND fel intelligence combined? My guess would be imp if divine spirit or other felhunter, and otherwise felhunter, but if I lived on my guess I'd still think spellpower is slightly better than spirit and crit which are slightly better than haste. ;D

 Elitist Jerks Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread