Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 3

Kabale · 12/05/08, 5:51 AM

Trash DPS is terrible for Affliction, thankfully most of naxx trash can be AoE'd down so you don't end up looking so bad. In heroics it's pretty much the same as anywhere else really, trash DPS is irrelevant, all that matters is boss DPS. The only exception is probably timed runs, but even the CoT timed event can be AoE zerged.

Neron · 12/05/08, 6:28 AM

After playing around with lots of different options in my affliction specc, I finally decided to just go all out on damage talents... 53 0 18

I had to pretty much just stack to hit gems, but still found it to be worth the bother... Interestingly enough, I seem to be pulling the same 4-5k DPS regardless of being in Naxx10 or 25...

To anyone interested, here are our WWS, so you can pull out my reports...

• fallenman · 12/05/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Namnalia

Spell power coefficients:
1.2 Base Coefficient
+0.36 (Empowered Corruption)
+0.05 (Everlasting Affliction)
+0.05 (Contagion)

Everlasting affliction boosts the spell power coefficient in the following way:

Corruption = +30% spell power.
UA = +25% spell power.
Siphon Life = +50% spell power.

See the following information from Vux on the testing done.

# Test X: Everlasting Affliction 5/5 (+5% Spellpower per tick)

* Corruption

o Base Damage:
900 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
772, 772, 772, 772, 773, 773 = 4364 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(900 + 1377*1.56) * 1.30 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*6) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Add EA damage)
(900 + 1377*1.56 + 1377*.05*6) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Bring inside parentheses)
(900 + 1377*1.56 + 1377*.3) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Multiply .05*6)
(900 + 1377*1.86) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(900 + 1377*1.86) * 1.30 * 1.03 = 4634.57358

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 30% extra damage from Spellpower (6 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Improved Corruption, Shadow Mastery, Contagion and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 186% for Corruption.

* Unstable Affliction

o Base Damage:
875 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
615, 615, 615, 615, 616 = 3076 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(875 + 1377) * 1.15 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*5) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Add EA damage)
(875 + 1377 + 1377*.05*5) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Bring inside parentheses)
(875 + 1377 + 1377*.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Multiply .05*5)
(875 + 1377*1.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(875 + 1377*1.25) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3075.258125

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 25% extra damage from Spellpower (5 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Shadow Mastery and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 125% for Unstable Affliction.

* Siphon Life

o Base Damage:
630 total damage

o 1377 Spellpower
319, 319, 319, 319, 319, 320, 320, 320, 320, 320 = 3195 total damage

o Theoretical Formula to Match Results
Derivation:
(630 + 1377) * 1.15 * 1.03 + (1377*.05*10) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Add EA damage)
(630 + 1377 + 1377*.05*10) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Bring inside parentheses)
(630 + 1377 + 1377*.50) * 1.15 * 1.03= 3192.81975 (Multiply .05*10)
(630 + 1377*1.50) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975 (Final Sum of Total Spellpower Coefficient)

Final:
(630 + 1377*1.50) * 1.15 * 1.03 = 3192.81975

o Conclusion(s):
Everlasting Affliction gives 5% Spellpower to each tick, for a total of 50% extra damage from Spellpower (10 ticks).
Everlasting Affliction occurs before Shadow Mastery and Malediction.
Everlasting Affliction yields a total Spellpower coefficient of 150% for Siphon Life.

By the way, if you'd like to copy/paste my guide into your guide, I think it would be beneficial to the community to have one central thread/location.

So maybe you can edit your guide and put my info in someplace?

Debuff · 12/05/08, 12:12 PM

I have a question about drain soul that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. I remember reading back in the BC days that drain soul does buff its self via soul siphon if you recast the channel since when you recast the mob has a drain soul debuff. My question is whether or not people are using this and refreshing drain soul after the first tick in order to get another 5% bonus to it's damage via soul siphon. I realize that this is a double-edged sword though and it would result in increased mana usage. Was there math on this if refreshing is more worthwhile than the mana loss?

krilz · 12/05/08, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Riverdanceonice

Does anyone know the value of Black Magic vs. 63 spell power to weapon for affliction? Is the dot it applies affected by haunt / shadow's embrace?

I found this comment on wowhead that might give some insight on the issue:

I had this enchanted, and spend some quality time with training dummies in IF.

No scaling with spellpower. Affected by CoE however.
In 200+ casts of Searing Pain, I observed a 45 sec internal CD and no Molten Core procs. It did, oddly enough, proc the Demonic Soul effect from 2-piece Plagueheart.
In 50+ casts of Rain of Fire, I never saw a proc on any of the targets.
In 30+ casts of Shadowfury, it often procced, but never on more then one target.
Never procced Molten Core .

It seems that a channeled AOE (Blizzard, Rain of Fire etc) wont proc it, but AOE with a cast time or instant cast will, but only on one of the targets. This makes it fairly similar to the Lightweave Embroidery from tailoring. Which in the same way often procced off Shadowfury but never off Rain of Fire and only on one target on AOE attacks.

Really, in PVE this looks to a piece of junk. No scaling in gear, a too-long cooldown and a prohibitive cost. Get the 63 spelldamage instead.

Nicarras · 12/05/08, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by Debuff

I have a question about drain soul that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. I remember reading back in the BC days that drain soul does buff its self via soul siphon if you recast the channel since when you recast the mob has a drain soul debuff. My question is whether or not people are using this and refreshing drain soul after the first tick in order to get another 5% bonus to it's damage via soul siphon. I realize that this is a double-edged sword though and it would result in increased mana usage. Was there math on this if refreshing is more worthwhile than the mana loss?

People arent doing it, but really most peoples first DS cast is a short cast broken after the second tick for a haunt/aff debuff refresh. Then a long DS cast afterwards, that would pick up what you are talking about (if it still exists in the game).

dagee · 12/05/08, 4:41 PM

Damage done:
0.85*1.2*1.1*1.15*1.05*1.13*1.01*( 1740 + ((1.2+0.36+0.05+0.05)*(2000*1.03)))*0.99*(1+0.15) = 9714.85
Casttime: 1.5s*(1/(1+Haste)) = 1.5*(1/1+0.15+0.0183) = 1.28s
DPCT: Damage/Casttime = 7566.57 Damage per second casting.

Quick question: How is the base damage for a skill calculated. I am at work right now so I am using the wiki's information but according to the wiki rank 10 corruption does 1080 dmg. Improved corruption does another 10%. That still does not come out to 1740. I am assuming some multipliers are being thrown into the calculation for base damage. What are they and how much are each worth?

Blacksen · 12/05/08, 6:11 PM

Your Immolate math is off, and your hit rating math is off.

dot = 1.2*1.1*1.01*(765+1/(1-2.0/3.5) * 2000 * 1.03)
direct = (460+( (1-1/(1-2.0/3.5))*2000*1.03) )* (1 + 0.15+0.10+0.03)
total = 0.85*1.13(dot+direct )*0.99 = 3724.24

Casttime: 1.5s*(1/(1+Haste)) = 1.5*(1/1+0.15+0.05+0.0183) = 1.23s
DPCT: Damage/Casttime = 3024.82 Damage per second casting.

Simplifying the DoT:
1.3332 * (765 + 2.4033 * spell dmg)
1019.898 + 3.204 * spell dmg

Sorry, but 320% spell dmg multplier on immolate is incorrect.

The hit cap is now 17%, making it so that spells won't miss.

Namnalia · 12/05/08, 10:10 PM

Thx for the feedback. I'll be fixing these things during the next week, I guess.

@ Blacksen: You're right, it should be

dot = 1.2*1.1*1.01*(765+1/(1+2.0/3.5) * 2000 * 1.03)
direct = (460+( (1-1/(1+2.0/3.5))*2000*1.03) )* (1 + 0.15+0.10+0.03)
total = 0.85*1.13(dot+direct )*0.99 = whatever

just a plus instead of a minus. Most probably just a typo, the resulting numbers seem right. I'll check that.
The hit rating is correct. I know that you can overcome the last percent, it's just that the values
I calculated with don't (10% base + 6% from buffs).
This was actually intended, it's easier to see what more hit rating would do when you're not capped.

@ Fallenman

Now that's interesting, I would never have expected EA would work like that. Guess I'll test it myself just to be absolutely sure. In fact i wanted to copy your part, but when I saw the "+50% percent spell power" for siphon life my first impression was it couldn't be right :-) I'll have a deeper look into the matter now.

Hopefully, I'm almost at the point where the damage estimation is good enough to start with the next part (The equip), but I want to fix this stuff first as the equip is based on it.

Batuk · 12/06/08, 3:33 PM

Anyone done work to find the haste cap for our dots? It's gonna drop off in how good it is fairly fast when your gcd capped on half your dmg spells.

Zaleiria · 12/06/08, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Batuk

Anyone done work to find the haste cap for our dots? It's gonna drop off in how good it is fairly fast when your gcd capped on half your dmg spells.

That should be easy to figure out, shouldn't it? If I recall correctly, gcd gets capped at one second, so...

Solve for: 1.0 = 1.5/(1 + (rating / 3279))

rating = 1639 (or 50% haste, which never changes...only the rating)

That's a lot higher than I expected though, is my math right?

ThyFlame · 12/07/08, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Zaleiria

That should be easy to figure out, shouldn't it? If I recall correctly, gcd gets capped at one second, so...

Solve for: 1.0 = 1.5/(1 + (rating / 3279))

rating = 1639 (or 50% haste, which never changes...only the rating)

That's a lot higher than I expected though, is my math right?

50% haste results would take 1.5 to .75, you're only looking for 33% haste for a 1.0 GCD

PSGarak · 12/07/08, 2:30 AM

Originally Posted by ThyFlame

50% haste results would take 1.5 to .75, you're only looking for 33% haste for a 1.0 GCD

That is not how haste works. Haste is not (1-haste%), it's 1/(1+haste%). Otherwise 100% haste would be 0 cast time, rather than half cast speed. His math is correct.

Capping out your GCD unaided is going to take a lot of haste, I'm not surprised it's unreasonable. You might want to figure out what it requires with varying amounts of raid haste. There's the possibility of bloodlust, and I think a minor haste aura (3%? 6%?) available from raid buffs. While it's a huge amount of haste to get, I think if you build for it you could nudge the GCD softcap on a proc.

virginio16 · 12/07/08, 5:09 AM

What about lightweave embroider? how does it work with affliction warlocks?

DiamondTear · 12/07/08, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by virginio16

What about lightweave embroider? how does it work with affliction warlocks?

It's always 1% of my dps. Since there is no spellpower cloak enchant, I'd say it's the best you can get.

Karmy · 12/07/08, 1:49 PM

I use DoTimer when I am affliction and I find myself having trouble with haunt up time because with all the other dots you try not to clip them except with haunt, also it has a travel time.

Does anyone know a way to make haunt stand out more or perhaps manually shorten it to 8s so it shows when the CD is up not the buff duration?

Or perhaps can suggest another affliction friendly mod?

PSGarak · 12/07/08, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by DiamondTear

It's always 1% of my dps. Since there is no spellpower cloak enchant, I'd say it's the best you can get.

There is a haste cloak enchant, though. Most other specs would prefer the haste, but I think they're much more comprabl for an affliction warlock that just about anyone else.

tsoek · 12/07/08, 6:58 PM

Originally Posted by Karmy

I use DoTimer when I am affliction and I find myself having trouble with haunt up time because with all the other dots you try not to clip them except with haunt, also it has a travel time.

Does anyone know a way to make haunt stand out more or perhaps manually shorten it to 8s so it shows when the CD is up not the buff duration?

Or perhaps can suggest another affliction friendly mod?

I use Ellipsis to track my DoTs and for a short while when getting used to the spec I was looking for something like that as well, but it's not really necessary. I simple recast Haunt when it's approaching 3 seconds left on the duration so given the cast + travel time it doesn't fall off. I've got Ellipsis sorting the timers so shortest is on the bottom, longest on the top and I always keep an eye on what the bottom 3 timers are tracking and make an effort to queue up what my next spell casts will be in my head.

Scrolling combat text, or even just watching the CD on your bars will let you know when Haunt is available to cast.

Ratamahatta · 12/07/08, 7:16 PM

Hi there,

I'm trying out different talent builds atm and was wondering, what people think about this one:
53/13/5

I'm a real fan of Improved Demonic Aegis with the loads of spirit our new Equip provides now. In this build you sacrifice ISB, which is kind of a waste since you can't spam SB but you lose ruin. But Aegis gives a push for all dots so this build could be nice. Anyone could give me some math for this? I'm not good at theorycraft -.-

Seir · 12/08/08, 3:13 AM

I've might have noticed a bug with haunt and corruption interaction, I can't fully confirm because I kind of filed it away in the back of my mind for checking later and have not noticed it come up.

I think I've seen Haunt hit then corruption will miss as though it was just recast on the boss and end early.

It would explain why sometimes my corruption seems to end early.

While this might make some sense for it to have to make a hit roll; the problem I'm having is that you can lose ticks on a corruption that would normally run full course with Haunt which just doesn't feel like it should be that way.

Can anyone confirm?

Namnalia · 12/08/08, 7:27 AM

Okay, I made some tests to find out what the spelldamage coefficient bonus of "Everlasting Affliction" really is.

I put, one at a time, corruption, Siphon Life and Unstable Affliction on a level 80 (no partial resists) training dummy. No Debuffs, no proccs, nothing but these spells.

First round:
Spelldamage = 1477.

Corruption ticking for 853
Siphon Life for 420
UA for 708

Second round:
Spelldamage = 1765

Corruption ticking for 973
Siphon Life for 480
UA for 794

Assuming Fallenmen is right and the coefficients are 5% times the number of ticks:

First round:
CorrDamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * 1.10 (Imp. Corr)*1.05 (Contagion) * (1080 (base damage) + (1.2(base coeff)+0.36(Emp.Corr.)+0.30(Everl.Affl.) )*1477) = 5083 (or 847 damage per tick)
Siphon Life Damage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery * (810 (Base Damage) + (1.0 (Base Coeff) + 0.50 (Everl. Affl.))*1477) = 3479 (or 348 damage per tick).
UADamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * (1150 (base damage) + (1.0 (base coeff + 0.25 (Everl. Affl.) )*1477 = 3445 (or 689 damage per tick)

Second round:
CorrDamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * 1.10 (Imp. Corr)*1.05 (Contagion) * (1080 (base damage) + (1.2(base coeff)+0.36(Emp.Corr.)+0.30(Everl.Affl.) )*1765) = 5795 (or 965 damage per tick)
Siphon Life Damage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery * (810 (Base Damage) + (1.0 (Base Coeff) + 0.50 (Everl. Affl.))*1765) = 3976 (or 397 damage per tick).
UADamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * (1150 (base damage) + (1.0 (base coeff + 0.25 (Everl. Affl.) )*1765 = 3859 (or 771 damage per tick)

So it seems like the assumption is true for at least Corruption and Unstable Affliction. I'll change that in the main post soon. But I simply don't understand what is up with Siphon Life, it does about 20% more damage than I expected. Is the base coefficient higher than 1.0 or does it get some boni from somewhere else?

krilz · 12/08/08, 7:35 AM

Originally Posted by Namnalia

Okay, I made some tests to find out what the spelldamage coefficient bonus of "Everlasting Affliction" really is.

I put, one at a time, corruption, Siphon Life and Unstable Affliction on a level 80 (no partial resists) training dummy. No Debuffs, no proccs, nothing but these spells.

First round:
Spelldamage = 1477.

Corruption ticking for 853
Siphon Life for 420
UA for 708

Second round:
Spelldamage = 1765

Corruption ticking for 973
Siphon Life for 480
UA for 794

Assuming Fallenmen is right and the coefficients are 5% times the number of ticks:

First round:
CorrDamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * 1.10 (Imp. Corr)*1.05 (Contagion) * (1080 (base damage) + (1.2(base coeff)+0.36(Emp.Corr.)+0.30(Everl.Affl.) )*1477) = 5083 (or 847 damage per tick)
Siphon Life Damage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery * (810 (Base Damage) + (1.0 (Base Coeff) + 0.50 (Everl. Affl.))*1477) = 3479 (or 348 damage per tick).
UADamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * (1150 (base damage) + (1.0 (base coeff + 0.25 (Everl. Affl.) )*1477 = 3445 (or 689 damage per tick)

Second round:
CorrDamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * 1.10 (Imp. Corr)*1.05 (Contagion) * (1080 (base damage) + (1.2(base coeff)+0.36(Emp.Corr.)+0.30(Everl.Affl.) )*1765) = 5795 (or 965 damage per tick)
Siphon Life Damage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery * (810 (Base Damage) + (1.0 (Base Coeff) + 0.50 (Everl. Affl.))*1765) = 3976 (or 397 damage per tick).
UADamage = 1.15 (Shadow Mastery) * (1150 (base damage) + (1.0 (base coeff + 0.25 (Everl. Affl.) )*1765 = 3859 (or 771 damage per tick)

So it seems like the assumption is true for at least Corruption and Unstable Affliction. I'll change that in the main post soon. But I simply don't understand what is up with Siphon Life, it does about 20% more damage than I expected. Is the base coefficient higher than 1.0 or does it get some boni from somewhere else?

[Glyph of Siphon Life]?

Namnalia · 12/08/08, 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by krilz

[Glyph of Siphon Life]?

Rofl, you're right! *shame on me*

blgdinger · 12/08/08, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Aeetes

As far as key talents are concerned, i think Soul Siphon and Death's embrace are definitely important aspects to an affliction spec, these allow DS at 25% to tick upwards of 8k (i'm closing on 9 with roughly 2k SP). Personally, I also still find imp drain soul to be necessary, with decent tanks I'm riding about 70-80% threat, with the talent, and the way I see it, the lower you're threat, the better. Also, 5/5 ruin is not really that important, SB does come out as the highest damage dealing ability, but the points can be better spent, seeing as the bulk of aff lock's dmg is still from dots.

here is my current spec:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I find it works very well for entrance level raiding (I was easily topping naxx 10 against similarly geared dps), although certain points may need to be tweaked as gear improves, for example hit talents, or perhaps moving into 5/5 ruin as crit increases. Or DP...the fact that it doesn't take health is nice, but easily remedied by simply lifetapping just before refreshing haunt in order to catch the returning heal.

Do you happn to have a patchwerk parse or meter? Preferably 25man

PSGarak · 12/08/08, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ratamahatta

Hi there,

I'm trying out different talent builds atm and was wondering, what people think about this one:
53/13/5

I'm a real fan of Improved Demonic Aegis with the loads of spirit our new Equip provides now. In this build you sacrifice ISB, which is kind of a waste since you can't spam SB but you lose ruin. But Aegis gives a push for all dots so this build could be nice. Anyone could give me some math for this? I'm not good at theorycraft -.-

13 talent points for 9% of your spirit as spellpower (plus 54)? I do not understand the fetish some people have with demonic aegic, it seems totally unreasonable to me. Even at 500 spirit the talent is barely going to push 100 bonus spellpower, compared to around 7% of your DPS from crit shadowbolts as affliction (in a fully raid-buffed scenario). It compares worse and worse to ruin as your gear improves with ambient crit rating.