Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 30

jsemon2 · 01/25/09, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mixolydian

I'm a long time reader of EJ, but this is my first time posting.

I keep seeing claims and wws posts with aff locks doing as much as 6.5k dps, I can't seem to get anywhere near that high.
My guild runs Naxx25, eye25, and we're working on 3-drake sarth. I just can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

Any suggestions as to what is causing my dps to be so low? Thanks.

yeah im not too sure what the problem is either. i just did grob last night with some new gear and only pushed out 4.2k dps as well. and recount did show me at the top with 4.2k but looking at the wws it shows me way lower then that. recount showed me top dmg as well and wws doesnt show that. here is the link. it seems wws isn't calculating the doomguard which is huge increase....
Wow Web Stats

maybe scrolls, pots vs lifetapping, etc? i think i have a few points in hit when i can start pulling some out of them. not too sure. any extra pointers would be great

fip · 01/25/09, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by jsemon2

yeah im not too sure what the problem is either. i just did grob last night with some new gear and only pushed out 4.2k dps as well. and recount did show me at the top with 4.2k but looking at the wws it shows me way lower then that. recount showed me top dmg as well and wws doesnt show that. here is the link. it seems wws isn't calculating the doomguard which is huge increase....
Wow Web Stats

maybe scrolls, pots vs lifetapping, etc? i think i have a few points in hit when i can start pulling some out of them. not too sure. any extra pointers would be great

Simply put: you are wearing 10-man gear and I even see a green on there. You do not have a single best in slot item and in fact a large number of them are pretty terrible. You are at least 1% over the hit cap, realistically 2% since you could have Draenei in your group. Your gear is over 200 spellpower lower than where it could be if not a full 3-400.

Your DoT uptime is fairly poor. With a 4:18 presence, you should be able to get a max of 86 tickets on all of your dots (more for CoA obviously). Your DoT uptime is as follows:
91% Corruption
91% UA
86% SL
86% CoA
84% Immolate

Also, given that your guild's fight was 4:24 long, it would be reasonable to assume that the <25% time was roughly 1 minute worth and yet you only managed 2 ticks of Drain Soul?

Simply put you need to work on casting your spells properly.

Lillyanne · 01/25/09, 4:32 PM

1. I am havign a problem with drain soul. Once i start spamming DS at <25%, I find it very difficult keeping it channeled for more than 2 ticks because dots are falling off, and i also find keepingg SE stackes twice difficult unless i gwet a nightfall proc or something. What should i do clearly? Should i let dots fall off and let DS finish channeling? Or should i interrupti channeling and refresh dots? I've taken immolate out of the rotation for it, and while I egt decent 8k-10k DRainsoul ticks, its only like one tick. Is my gear a problem? Do I not have enough haste?

2. Even with 3/3 hit talents in BOTH Afflcition and catalycsm, and with a drenai is our parties, I am stil missing some of my spells. Sometimes it's allright, i can dps without worrying about it. But then...when it misses it really sets me off. A big problem is that I have UA and Immolate sequenced together, and if one misses i have to wait 5 secodns for the reset, (as such i ignroe the missped spell and continue pdsing untul the next "rotation), and it kills nmy dps for that moment. The question i have is..

When you miss with a spell...epsecially a UA/immolate or any dot, what is the best coruse of action? Do you reapply it?, or do you skip it and go on with the rest of the rotation?

Heeno · 01/25/09, 4:49 PM

Drain Soul should be thought as five 3-second channeled spells instead of one 15-second channeled spell. So you should definitely keep all of your DoTs up (keeping immolate up is disputed) especially haunt. You should not have a problem with shadow embrace if you haunt after every cooldown. I would suggest that you read this post making it easier to keep DOTs up during DS: http://elitistjerks.com/1012433-post105.html.

There is a bug with refreshing dots where if the DoT currently on it is more powerful. This causes immolate to hit the target with the DD portion but the DOT portion is not refreshed. This can be prevented by making sure that you aren't clipping immolate's final tick when you are reapplying it. If you do make a mistake and clip immolate, immediately reapply it, it may screw up your rotation but it is better than just waiting until you refresh unstable affliction.

jsemon2 · 01/25/09, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by fip

Your DoT uptime is fairly poor. With a 4:18 presence, you should be able to get a max of 86 tickets on all of your dots (more for CoA obviously). Your DoT uptime is as follows:
91% Corruption
91% UA
86% SL
86% CoA
84% Immolate

Also, given that your guild's fight was 4:24 long, it would be reasonable to assume that the <25% time was roughly 1 minute worth and yet you only managed 2 ticks of Drain Soul?

Simply put you need to work on casting your spells properly.

the gear thing is understandable as i've been 80 played for 9 days total. but for my rotation I understand. I am failing on the drain soul and I will work on that.

also thank you for the reply.

Namnalia · 01/26/09, 8:43 AM

I changed the way hit rating affects DoTs.

Short result: Hit loses some of its value, but is still the best stat to max out.

The new model looks like this:

When you miss a dot, you usually don't wait for its duration until you recast it. Instead, you just recast it immediately (or let's say as fast as possible). Therefore, Average Damage = Base Damage * Hit Chance is not a good way to compute dot damage.
So what does a dot miss actually do? You have to recast it immediately, meaning you have twice the cast time, or
(2-hit chance)*cast time in the average.
The second effect is a longer "dot gap" or a lower uptime of the dot. So, I changed the number of dot casts of every dot but corruption to 95% MINUS the time wasted by casting the dot, looking like this for a 60s-window:

number of casts = 60s*95% / (dot duration + average cast time of the dot).

As the average cast time is affected by hit, so is the number of dot casts within the intervall (and its dps contribution).
Mana costs are computed exactly the same way.

The effect of this is a slight decrease of the importance of hit rating: Hit for dots has ROUGHLY the effect that haste has for direct damage spells. Nevertheless, hit stays the most important stat, but I think the model is more accurate now.
It was funny to see that although this is quite a change, the ratings remained stable.
Next will be recomputation of the item values *sigh*.

fallenman · 01/26/09, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Namnalia

The main problem about Drain Soul is its channeling time: Within 15s (or whatever it is after your haste is applied), many dots will need a recast. Every dot except immolate has a higher dpct AND does contribute to the damage of Drain Soul by the Talent "Improved Drain Soul". The Shadow Embrace effect from Haunt and SB also improves Drain Soul's damage. This means that you have to reapply dots and haunt almost immediately when they fade off / don't have a cd left.

This should say "the Talent Soul Siphon".

teneran · 01/26/09, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by daphnestar

Do you guys know anything about gemming? Should I focus on resilience or stamina?

How about metas? Should I get the power earthsiege diamond with +32 stamina (but requires 3 blues) or the trenchant earthsiege diamond with +25 spellpower?

The way I figure is that if stamina is more important, I'd meet the requirement for blue sockets by using stamina or resilience gems so that the power earthsiege diamond is a nobrainer. However if resilience is more important, I'd use the +16/+20 resilience gems which will make using the stamina meta much harder.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Reslilience is totally unimportant in PvE. Stamina while nice is also a fairly low priority.

My understanding is that stat priorities are basically as follows:

Hit (until capped) > SP > haste > crit > SPI > INT/STA

Its possible some of those may flip-flop a bit but those are your basic priorities when looking at gems/gear.

Krypto1 · 01/26/09, 3:07 PM

I think Daphnestar, you might be better off asking PvP questions in the PvP section of the forums under the Warlock Thread. This thread is focussed on PvE Raiding primarily.

Nevertheless, my 5 cents to that question would be to gem for resilience, as the only point of HP is to survive bursts and resilience helps more in the long run by its damage mitigation.

HF-Decay · 01/26/09, 8:07 PM

Hey, my first post here, but I've been reading the forum for quite a while and it has proven tremendous help for my performance in raids.

I just wanna post our most recent WWS on Patchwerk, it went pretty good but we didn't have a moonkin, it was for the 20 man achievement.

6.4k DPS as Haunt/Ruin with the basic SB, Haunt, UA, Immo, Corr, CoA, SL rotation.

Wow Web Stats

Some queries..
Which would you consider better, Embrace of the Spider or Sundial of the Exiled? and why?
When casting Drain Soul I noticed that my ticks have huge variance on damage, I'm wondering if it takes account for when the dots fall of even if you applied it while all were up?

And uhm, any feedback would be helpful

Ask anything you want if you wish to know anything.

- Decayus

Krathis · 01/27/09, 2:11 AM

Originally Posted by Namnalia

I changed the way hit rating affects DoTs.

Short result: Hit loses some of its value, but is still the best stat to max out.

The new model looks like this:

When you miss a dot, you usually don't wait for its duration until you recast it. Instead, you just recast it immediately (or let's say as fast as possible). Therefore, Average Damage = Base Damage * Hit Chance is not a good way to compute dot damage.
So what does a dot miss actually do? You have to recast it immediately, meaning you have twice the cast time, or
(2-hit chance)*cast time in the average.
The second effect is a longer "dot gap" or a lower uptime of the dot. So, I changed the number of dot casts of every dot but corruption to 95% MINUS the time wasted by casting the dot, looking like this for a 60s-window:

number of casts = 60s*95% / (dot duration + average cast time of the dot).

I don't know if you considered and just didn't mention it or didn't consider but a missed Haunt can't be recast immediately and will cost you 20% of your dot damage until it can be reapplied as well as an additional global cooldown to renew corruption. I wouldn't know where to start in trying to model this but it would effect the weighting of hit over other stats quite a bit I imagine.

Namnalia · 01/27/09, 5:38 AM

Originally Posted by Krathis

I don't know if you considered and just didn't mention it or didn't consider but a missed Haunt can't be recast immediately and will cost you 20% of your dot damage until it can be reapplied as well as an additional global cooldown to renew corruption. I wouldn't know where to start in trying to model this but it would effect the weighting of hit over other stats quite a bit I imagine.

Yes, this is included in the haunt modifier, which is not 1.2 but 1+0.2*hit chance of haunt.

Raynor · 01/27/09, 8:23 AM

Is it worth to reapply insta-cast dots while running even by clipping them? SL, corr maybe, not CoA coz last ticks do more damage.

oresteez · 01/27/09, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Raynor

Is it worth to reapply insta-cast dots while running even by clipping them? SL, corr maybe, not CoA coz last ticks do more damage.

I would if you think you aren't going to get to hit him for at least 10-15 seconds. A perfect example would be when fighting Gothik right before he teleports to the other side (assuming you aren't going to teleport and follow him!)

Another example would be on Heigan, especially if you are not confident with reapplying DOT's while dancing.

inktomi · 01/27/09, 11:13 AM

I see that you got a doomguard here, and early enough to do a good amount of damage. I also heard somewhere someone mentioned that we can summon them without killing someone now - is this really true? I can't find any mention of it officially anywhere.

If not true, wouldn't it be dangerous to summon a doomguard in a fight? I can't imagine how lucky you got with Curse of Doom if you did it that way..

Originally Posted by HF-Decay

Hey, my first post here, but I've been reading the forum for quite a while and it has proven tremendous help for my performance in raids.

I just wanna post our most recent WWS on Patchwerk, it went pretty good but we didn't have a moonkin, it was for the 20 man achievement.

6.4k DPS as Haunt/Ruin with the basic SB, Haunt, UA, Immo, Corr, CoA, SL rotation.

Wow Web Stats

Some queries..
Which would you consider better, Embrace of the Spider or Sundial of the Exiled? and why?
When casting Drain Soul I noticed that my ticks have huge variance on damage, I'm wondering if it takes account for when the dots fall of even if you applied it while all were up?

And uhm, any feedback would be helpful

Ask anything you want if you wish to know anything.

- Decayus