Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 31

François · 03/04/09, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Imakandi

Without doing the math, but given the limited range (20 yards), the relatively high mana cost (27% base mana), the 15 sec cd and the soul shard cost it still remains rather situational and my guess is that the 1 point in aftermath (+3% immolate dmg) would net you more dps than Shadowburn - the gap would even increase if you toss in a LT for the gcd you would use on Shadowburn.

And to the 1st part of your question: Shadowbolt has a 85.69% coeff. while Shadowburn has only 42.93% (Source) - Shadowburn is also unaffected by haste, while SB benefits from it.

Shadowburn is as much affected by haste as Immo, UA, Haunt, thanks GCD reduction, so I really don't understand why you talk about it.

When taking coefs, ISB and Bane into account, but not Eradication, latency nor mana cost (which is 20% base, according to mmo-champion), Shadowburn stays higher DPCT until 3231 spell power.

With the ability to get soul shard in combat, new glyphs instead of Immo, I'm not convinced Shadowburn is out, but I don't know how to run rawr / SimulationCraft to check how it compares to 3% immolate periodic damage.

    immolate              Count= 16.0|15.8sec  DPE=6176| 5%  DPET=4627  DPR= 9.4  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1267  Crit=2650|3023|32.9%  TickCount=75  Tick=963

According to this sim, 3% on periodic Immolation damage is 2103 damage over the 5min fight, ie 7 dps (on 5815 total). Is it really better than having an instant cast available ala Fireblast, even if it requires short range ?

madindehead · 03/04/09, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Xaviorm

How did you set the markers on the bars? Is this a custom skin for the bars?

It's built in to the addon. This should help you get it up =)

1) Type /fx or /fw in chat box
2) Click on Spell Timer at the bottom
3) Make sure "Show Ticks" is ticked
4) Make sure "Next Tick only" is un-ticked if you want to see every tick that will happen on the bar.

Hope that helps =)

Imakandi · 03/04/09, 2:15 PM

I shall stand corrected, the 27% mana cost was my mistake, looked at the rank7 version, not rank9.

One of your initial questions was how Shadowburn dmg compares to SB.

Don't have access here at work to the new version simcraft, so I took the last one before the ptr (r1527) and modified the 55/0/16 spec to 54/0/17 to include shadowburn in the rotation.

Player=Warlock_T7_54_00_17  DPS=6035.8 (Error=+/-8.5 Range=+/-484)  DPR=18.2  RPS=330.8/264.2  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=59  agility=61  stamina=1186  intellect=968  spirit=541  health=17995  mana=20231
  Spell Stats:  power=2000  hit=13.9%  crit=16.8%  penetration=0  haste=15.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=737  hit=11.1%  crit=12.4%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=15.2%
  Actions:
    corruption            Count=  1.1|84.7sec  DPE=181369|13%  DPET=136319  DPR=356.8  Miss=0.0%  Tick=2316
    curse_of_agony        Count= 10.4|27.2sec  DPE=11743| 7%  DPET=10212  DPR=32.3  Miss=0.0%  Tick=951
    drain_soul            Count=  6.9| 7.4sec  DPE=31951|14%  DPET=7081  DPR=62.9  Miss=0.0%  Tick=14876
    haunt                 Count= 21.1|13.0sec  DPE=3494| 5%  DPET=2723  DPR= 8.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2927  Crit=4528|5827|35.4%
    immolate              Count= 13.8|15.8sec  DPE=8717| 7%  DPET=6688  DPR=13.3  Miss=0.1%  Hit=1193  Crit=2498|2882|33.0%  Tick=1522
    pandemic              Count= 37.9| 6.8sec  DPE=1944| 5%  DPET=   1  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1944
    shadow_bolt           Count= 55.0| 4.1sec  DPE=7038|24%  DPET=3509  DPR=10.7  Miss=0.1%  Hit=4854  Crit=10142|13536|41.4%
    shadow_burn           Count= 16.2|16.7sec  DPE=4361| 4%  DPET=3404  DPR= 5.6  Miss=0.1%  Hit=3135  Crit=6539|8286|36.1%
    siphon_life           Count=  8.7|32.2sec  DPE=11465| 6%  DPET=8939  DPR=19.7  Miss=0.0%  Tick=1225
    unstable_affliction   Count= 17.6|15.4sec  DPE=8145| 9%  DPET=6346  DPR=15.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=1794
   felhunter
    felhunter_melee       Count=173.4| 1.5sec  DPE= 528| 6%  DPET= 341  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 523  Crit=1046|1113|13.4%  Glance= 392|23.9%  Dodge=6.5%
    shadow_bite           Count= 44.3| 6.2sec  DPE= 515| 1%  DPET= 312  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 511  Crit=1024|1172|13.3%  Glance= 384|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Even if the numbers may be slightly off compared to the current ptr (especially the effect of ISB and the new Eradication), it can be a basis: it states that SB is higher DPCT, than Shadowburn - in fact Shadowburn has the lowest DPCT in the rotation (please point out if I made a mistake in the simulation, made it on the fly while working).

On the aftermath vs. shadowburn part: it would be interesting to see a simulation on that, however, for the +7dps from 1pt in Aftermath you don't have to sacrife a gcd, while including shadowburn in the rotation requires a gcd/cast. And as (if) SB is higher DPCT than shadowburn, you would lose dps using that time to cast shadowburn instead of SB. Alas, aftermath would be where that last point would need to go - given an ideal fight w/o moving (but simcraft is all about an indeal fight). In real raids shadowburn could have its use.

Although to make the question more complex, you would need to consider (besides the +7dps from 1pt in Aftermath) the dps gain if you would cast LT instead of Shadowburn (like in situations when you could cast Shadowburn, but couldn't cast any spell with cast time, or a dot due clipping). The spell power privided by the glyphed LT along with 4pt7 bonus could net you more dps if you refresh Haunt/UA/Immo/CoA in the 10sec(-gcd) time after casting LT.

pittgilman · 03/04/09, 5:49 PM

So I have ran all of the possible gear combo's I can think of and this is the best set-up for raids. I am of course assuming you are in an optimal raid with 4% hit buffs and are using 3/3 cata and 3/3 suppression. I am going to work on a setup for not using the talents next and will edit it in to this.

chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Trickykid · 03/04/09, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by pittgilman

So I have ran all of the possible gear combo's I can think of and this is the best set-up for raids. I am of course assuming you are in an optimal raid with 4% hit buffs and are using 3/3 cata and 3/3 suppression. I am going to work on a setup for not using the talents next and will edit it in to this.

chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

I ran all of them through the spreadsheet and got a slightly different setup (identical except for two items). Mostly this depends upon whether you use the spreadsheet or simulations (and any particular raid buffs you may or may not have available to you). Based on my weights from the spreadsheet at max gear levels, switching to Mantle of Dissemination/Surplus Limb gives 22.7 more DPS.

Changing to those two items (and swapping the dragon's eye that was in the shoulder to the chest piece for the spirit bonus), also note I removed Fel armor for both counts to make sure spirit wasn't being tallied twice:
-4 spell power
+17 crit rating
-3 hit (but we are still over 10% anyway)
+41 haste
-32 spirit

My spreadsheet's weights using my slightly edited set:
1.37 spell power
0.77 crit rating
0.75 haste rating
0.50 spirit

Doesn't matter too much either way since we have two parallel weights from different sources.

pittgilman · 03/04/09, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Trickykid

I ran all of them through the spreadsheet and got a slightly different setup (identical except for two items). Mostly this depends upon whether you use the spreadsheet or simulations (and any particular raid buffs you may or may not have available to you). Based on my weights from the spreadsheet at max gear levels, switching to Mantle of Dissemination/Surplus Limb gives 22.7 more DPS.

Changing to those two items (and swapping the dragon's eye that was in the shoulder to the chest piece for the spirit bonus), also note I removed Fel armor for both counts to make sure spirit wasn't being tallied twice:
-4 spell power
+17 crit rating
-3 hit (but we are still over 10% anyway)
+41 haste
-32 spirit

My spreadsheet's weights using my slightly edited set:
1.37 spell power
0.77 crit rating
0.75 haste rating
0.50 spirit

Doesn't matter too much either way since we have two parallel weights from different sources.

You are totally right...apologies for the mistake and thank you for that, that completes my search for the best set-up for me =) What if tho...you keep spine and swap ur wand to gemmed wand and put icewalker on ur boots. U would still be hit capped...gonna run the math on that rly fast.

twinight · 03/04/09, 9:01 PM

I was under the impression from earlier posts that it was generally considered more optimal to gear for hit rather than talent for hit, largely due to the fact that as item level increases, so does the ease of hitting the static hit cap due to more expansive item budgets. Meanwhile the rest of the DPS talents continue to scale and don't offer as flat of a benefit.

I admit to being weak on the numbers but at present about the only points I can think of that might end up being better invested in hit would be taking two from Eradication and going to 1/3 in both hit talents, especially when discussing the present "end game" quality equipment.

Am I wrong on this? It's quite possible I missed some math somewhere on a breakpoint between the two, and I am quite content to be wrong either way so long as there is some good evidence. Six points just seems like an awful lot for 3% hit -- nowhere near the bargain Moonkin get with two points for 4%.

pittgilman · 03/05/09, 12:59 AM

If I recall I remember it being an almost trivial difference...I do not remember for sure but I also like the 6 points for the extra mana. Also remember that after 3.1 it will only be 3 points for the hit.

rutiene · 03/05/09, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by pittgilman

If I recall I remember it being an almost trivial difference...I do not remember for sure but I also like the 6 points for the extra mana. Also remember that after 3.1 it will only be 3 points for the hit.

The main problem with this is that you'd be taking the points from either Eradication or Improved Drain Soul. While Imp DS might not be important if your gear isn't as good as your tank's, it usually is a big deal for most progressive raiders.

Shodan30 · 03/05/09, 11:02 AM

I could use some equipment upgrade advice.

The World of Warcraft Armory

The only thing I know I want right now is Dying curse (Damn thing will not drop for me.) but after that its more rearranging of pieces and small upgrades in damage.

Now My chest and legs are the problem. I see on many 'best equipment lists' that upgrading to the 7.5 chest is the most often picked slot. However at this point, im trying to consolidate my hit on fewer pieces so im trying to decide between going for wanton spellcaster legs and the 10 man maly robe/heigans vestments.....argh.

At this point however, I feel ive hit a wall. I could replace some stuff at that point but my gear is pretty well balanced right now. I've for the most part ignored crit because raid buffs are giving me a pretty good amount and I really like the haste as high as it is.

Should I just get Dying curse and maybe heigans robe, then just wait for uldar?

Gauntjack · 03/05/09, 3:10 PM

Your gear looks good to me - I'd do some research and find out what your hit cap is because you may be at it or exceeding it. If I were in your shoes with gear and running naxx 25 & 10 man, I'd look at other gear as well - your neck is good but the tops in slot is significantly better, which comes from getting the key off of Saphiron and then killing Malygos in either 10 man or 25 man.

Strangle · 03/06/09, 2:22 AM

Originally Posted by Gauntjack

Your gear looks good to me - I'd do some research and find out what your hit cap is because you may be at it or exceeding it. If I were in your shoes with gear and running naxx 25 & 10 man, I'd look at other gear as well - your neck is good but the tops in slot is significantly better, which comes from getting the key off of Saphiron and then killing Malygos in either 10 man or 25 man.

Maalakai posted examples of BIS gear setups depending on whether you were using talents to hitcap or not:

With 3% hit from talents: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

Without 3% hit from talents: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner

I've used this as a guide and it's worked well. You'll notice all but 2-3 items are common between the two.

ilovemrdoe · 03/06/09, 8:21 PM

Which the upcoming change to pandemic would the [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] be a better meta gem choice than the 25sp+(effect) meta gems?

Paroxys · 03/06/09, 9:55 PM

Affliction

Pandemic now Grants the periodic damage from your Corruption and Unstable Affliction spells the ability to critically hit for 100% increased damage.
Malediction now Increases your spell damage by 1/2/3%, and increases the periodic critical strike chance of your Corruption and Unstable Affliction spells by 3/6/9%.
Eradication changed to - When you deal damage with Corruption, you have 6% chance to increase your spell casting speed by 6/12/20% for 10 sec.
Siphon Life changed to - When you deal damage with your Corruption spell, you are instantly healed for 40% of the damage done. In addition, the damage done by your Corruption, Seed of Corruption and Unstable Affliction damage over time effects is increased by 5%.
Soul Siphon now Increases the amount drained by your Drain Life and Drain Soul spells by an additional 3/6% (up from 2/4%) for each of your Affliction effects on the target, up to a maximum of 9/18% (down from 24/60%) additional effect.

Well, there's quite a few buffs there. Re-re-envisioned Eradication has no internal cooldown if we take the tooltip difference literally, and should be quite a lot better than the crit version. Another corruption buff, making SL a PvE talent worth taking. However they've finally updated Soul Siphon to not benefit from stacking warlocks - with a max benefit from 3 Affliction effects, Warlocks are now self-reliant on Drain Soul damage, but it's been nerfed by potentially 1/3rd... hopefully that doesn't account for TOO much of a damage loss. But in light of these changes Affliction would probably come out on top again?

wolfwink2 · 03/06/09, 10:29 PM

Did any one else see this blue post?

* Immolation and Unstable Affliction are now in the same exclusive category (both damage over time effects cannot be present at the same time by the same caster on a target).

It was in today's 3.1 PTR patch notes. Does that mean we can't have both UA and Immo in our rotation? Or am I reading this wrong.

Illijilli · 03/06/09, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by wolfwink2

Did any one else see this blue post?

* Immolation and Unstable Affliction are now in the same exclusive category (both damage over time effects cannot be present at the same time by the same caster on a target).

It was in today's 3.1 PTR patch notes. Does that mean we can't have both UA and Immo in our rotation? Or am I reading this wrong.

linky? I haven't been able to find that posted anywhere, it isn't listed in MMO-CHAMPs notes that I saw... >.>

Arthek · 03/06/09, 10:45 PM

It's a Metamorphosis skill, Immolation Aura, not Immolate.

Morrigan · 03/06/09, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Illijilli

linky? I haven't been able to find that posted anywhere, it isn't listed in MMO-CHAMPs notes that I saw... >.>

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 3.1.0 Patch Notes - Updated 3/6/09

Originally Posted by Arthek

It's a Metamorphosis skill, Immolation Aura, not Immolate.

Nonsense, Immolation Aura isn't even a debuff. It's just a typo...

whi · 03/06/09, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

Nonsense, Immolation Aura isn't a even debuff. It's just a typo...

Which is further proven by the little fact, that you can't have Unstable Affliction and Immolation Aura(Metamorphosis) in 1 spec.

Guess Blizzard found a way for affliction warlocks to drop Immolate out of their 'rotation' finally.

Vorain · 03/08/09, 7:01 PM

Unless drastic changes hit Affliction, speccing Affliction will be quite much easier then now. I even managed to make a spec with quite much only obvious picks in about 2 minutes.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9658

Some "IF"s remain though, mainly the usefulness of Succubus in Ulduar, but even missing Improved Imp, that spec should have an at least decent Imp if usage of Succubus in some specific bosses is impossible. Speccing Imp. DS can be considered if Ulduar gear is loaded with hit AND/OR tank TPS doesn't go up much.

And yes, I know, it's only early PTR. But unless Blizz makes totally new Affli-benefitting talents in the first tier of Demo/Destro or decides to scrap Afflichanges and start from scratch, (which I pretty much doubt) we have quite the clear winner for the Affli spec of 3.1.

Whitemage · 03/08/09, 7:01 PM

I just logged onto the PTR and was able to cast Immolate and Unstable Affliction on the same target (a target dummy). They both show up on the target, and both deal damage as normal. Either this isn't quite implemented yet, or they really DO mean Immolation Aura.

Vorain · 03/08/09, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by Whitemage

I just logged onto the PTR and was able to cast Immolate and Unstable Affliction on the same target (a target dummy). They both show up on the target, and both deal damage as normal. Either this isn't quite implemented yet, or they really DO mean Immolation Aura.

Would make no sense, to be honest. It's just Blizz not implementing it yet or some sort of bug.

Smurrf · 03/08/09, 7:51 PM

Blizz not implementing yet. Remember, blues have said previously that what they're testing on internally is usually several iterations of PTR ahead of what's currently available. Someone probably got mixed up as to exactly where they are on live PTRs.

Bergtau · 03/08/09, 10:31 PM

Sadly, this thread could be renamed "Affliction Discussion" because of the future removal of 2 DoTs from the rotation. Hopefully they change their mind.

phulshof · 03/09/09, 4:59 AM

Edit: Wrong thread. Where's the delete button for messages?