Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Warlocks

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/09/09, 11:14 AM   #776
duhwhat
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Dpartd View Post
There are two problems with this method.

1) The "Fifth" lines will always be there cluttering up your Quartz casting bar even when you are not casting Drain Soul.
2) Pushback: On fights with Pushback, and you get hit while channeling Drain Soul, your ticks will not automatically re-adjust to appear in the correct locations (like ForteXorcist will).
Quartz's wowace page now has a patch to show ticks for channeled spells. WoW AddOns - 15 - Show damage ticks when channeling spells - WowAce.com The two files available should simply be copied over your current Player.lua and Quartz-enUS.lua. Note that in recent releases, the directory structure of Quartz has changed, with the Player module located in Addons as its own directory Quartz_Player, rather than inside the Quartz diretory. You may need to do some digging to find the files.

edit: As Robi below pointed out, this patch does not compensate for damage pushback.

Last edited by duhwhat : 03/09/09 at 2:21 PM.

Offline
Old 03/09/09, 1:19 PM   #777
Robi
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Eredar (EU)
The modification for quartz does not display pushback changes of tick position. It stays the same if you get a pushback. (so issue 1 of Dpartd is solved but not the second one)

Offline
Old 03/09/09, 6:35 PM   #778
zelman
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Draka
Arcanum of Power

Using your green numbers (UR-ready), I get 48.63 DPS with Arcanum of Burning Mysteries, but 49.668 DPS with Arcanum of Power. Should be a viable option if you only need a certain amount of hit (more than 8 but less than 16).

Offline
Old 03/13/09, 4:53 PM   #779
Russhammy
Glass Joe
 
Russhammy's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Hello! If it was there, then i'm sorry, but in primary post - there is something wrong about haste in raid and haste cap.
First of all from WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft.
Haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is beneficial to stack multiple haste effects. For instance, stacking Slice and Dice with Blade Flurry gives a total of 68% haste (140% * 120% = 168% of the base attack speed). Haste rating stacks additively with itself (two sources of 100 haste rating give 200 haste rating stacked together) and then is converted into a percentage that stacks multiplicatively with other sources of haste.
So, we have this formula in raid with several sources of haste:
New Cast Time = (Base Cast Time)/((1+First_%haste/100)(1+Second_%haste/100)*...(1+N_%haste/100)), where N - sources of haste.
So, let's count.
We have in raid:
1. Shaman totem - 5% haste.
2. Improve Moonkin Form or Retribution Paladin - 3% haste.
3. Bloodlust/Heroism - 30% haste.
4.
4.1 For Affliction Warlock we have Eradication proc - 20% haste.
4.2 For Destruction Warlock we have BackDraft - 30% haste.
So, what is the character's haste cap for Global Cooldown when Totem+Aura+BL/H are active?
New Time - 1 sec. Base time - 1.5 sec.
1 = 1.5/((1+1.05)(1+1.03)(1+0.3)(1+X)) or X = 1.5/1.406-1 => X = 0,067 or 6.7% character's haste or 6.7%*32.79 = just 220 haste rating to cap your GCD.
Second conclusion: We have 40.6% haste in raid while BL/H, Totem, Aura is active.
Third conclusion: 1% your haste gives 1.406% haste in raid =) Nice scale i think.

Then, let's see how much haste we need to have Shadow Bolt Cast Time 1 sec (sure with Bane).
Let's name character's haste - X%
1 sec = 2.5sec/(1+X)*1.03*1.05*1.3. It's with BL/H, Totem and Aura.
X = 2.5sec/(1sec*1.406)-1 = 0,7793 or 77.81% haste = 2551 haste rating.

Plus Eradication on.
1 sec = 2.5sec/(1+X)*1.03*1.05*1.3*1.2
X = 2.5sec/(1sec*1.687)-1 = 0.482 or 48.2% haste = 1580 haste rating.

For incinirate when +BackDraft on.
See below.

Last edited by Russhammy : 03/14/09 at 6:10 AM.

Offline
Old 03/13/09, 5:53 PM   #780
Robi
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warlock
 
Eredar (EU)
Backdraft is *0.7 (or /0.7 in your calc) not /1.3 (or *1.3). (so actually is 42.857% haste)

In the tooltip you see that by the "cast time [...] reduced by 30%" compared to e.g. "increase your spell casting speed by 20%" of eradiction.

Offline
Old 03/14/09, 6:10 AM   #781
Russhammy
Glass Joe
 
Russhammy's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Свежеватель душ (EU)
Originally Posted by Robi View Post
Backdraft is *0.7 (or /0.7 in your calc) not /1.3 (or *1.3). (so actually is 42.857% haste)

In the tooltip you see that by the "cast time [...] reduced by 30%" compared to e.g. "increase your spell casting speed by 20%" of eradiction.
Yep. I checked it in Orgrimmar solo and with shaman totem and BL. I have 709 haste rating (21.6%) with spellstone. Plus totem,BL and BD and incinerate cast time = 0.949 sec.
Counting:
New Cast Time = (2.25*0.7)/(1.216*1.05*1.3) = 0.949 sec. As i see, you are right in backdraft multiplier.
So, then
For incinerate when +BackDraft on.
1 sec = 2.25сек*0.7/(1+X/100)*1.03*1.05*1.3
X = (2.25sec*0.7)/(1sec*1.406)-1 = 0.12 or 12.0% haste = only 394 haste rating.

Offline
Old 03/15/09, 4:57 PM   #782
Gorship
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Gorefiend
Has anything been decided on if Immolate is worth throwing anymore? or is just SB spam better overall?

Offline
Old 03/15/09, 5:38 PM   #783
Issa
Von Kaiser
 
Issa's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Originally Posted by Gorship View Post
Has anything been decided on if Immolate is worth throwing anymore? or is just SB spam better overall?
Did you read the patchnotes? You can't throw on UA and immo anymore at the same time.

Offline
Old 03/16/09, 6:11 PM   #784
Viktorya
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Perenolde
According to the Warlock DPS spreedsheet with my gear loaded in to it, immolate is still worth casting in 3.0.8 for me.

Since 3.1, with the UA/immolate change, hasn't been released and I can still have both UA and immolate on the same target, I'll continue to use both until it is changed on the live server.

Offline
Old 03/16/09, 6:45 PM   #785
Illijilli
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Viktorya View Post
According to the Warlock DPS spreedsheet with my gear loaded in to it, immolate is still worth casting in 3.0.8 for me.

Since 3.1, with the UA/immolate change, hasn't been released and I can still have both UA and immolate on the same target, I'll continue to use both until it is changed on the live server.
I don't believe anyone ever doubted that Immo was worth keeping up since 3.0, I can't think of a spread sheet anywhere that showed otherwise. Most of the current discussion is for the upcoming changes (3.1 and later), which is where Immo and UA will not be able to be kept up together. The Immo/UA change HAS gone through onto the PTR so most are accepting this as no longer debated, but an incoming change.

Offline
Old 03/17/09, 6:00 AM   #786
Maelynn
Glass Joe
 
Maelynn's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Lightbringer (EU)
"Doomguard: Cooldown reduced to 30 minutes, down from 60 minutes. Damage reduced approximately 30%, and health reduced approximately 30%."
(source)

It uses the word 'approximately'... has anybody been able to test to what extent this nerf will affect the Doomguard's dps? Will it still be the top notch minion for affliction (especially considering the fact that it can now be used twice as often as before), or is the ±30% too much of a crippling blow?

Offline
Old 03/17/09, 6:20 AM   #787
TangoDigital
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Originally Posted by Maelynn View Post
(source)

It uses the word 'approximately'... has anybody been able to test to what extent this nerf will affect the Doomguard's dps? Will it still be the top notch minion for affliction (especially considering the fact that it can now be used twice as often as before), or is the ±30% too much of a crippling blow?
Well... on my character it does anywhere between 1k and 1.3k currently. So if they axe 30% of that it should still be at 900 tops. That's still way better than whatever standard pet affliction can come up with.

TangoDigital

Offline
Old 03/17/09, 6:34 AM   #788
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Maelynn View Post
(source)

It uses the word 'approximately'... has anybody been able to test to what extent this nerf will affect the Doomguard's dps? Will it still be the top notch minion for affliction (especially considering the fact that it can now be used twice as often as before), or is the ±30% too much of a crippling blow?
The doomguard on live does 2.84 times as much damage per (average) melee swing as the succubus. On the PTR this number is 1.89. If you want to be exact, it's a 33.51% damage nerf for the doomguard, but it's still better than the succubus. (Not quite 1.89 times better though, since the succubus gets lash of pain in addition to melee swings.) Simulationcraft for 3.1 shows the doomguard to be about a 300 DPS increase over the succubus.

Norway Offline
Old 03/17/09, 9:12 AM   #789
phulshof
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Aggramar (EU)
Originally Posted by Trickykid View Post
I ran all of them through the spreadsheet and got a slightly different setup (identical except for two items). Mostly this depends upon whether you use the spreadsheet or simulations (and any particular raid buffs you may or may not have available to you). Based on my weights from the spreadsheet at max gear levels, switching to Mantle of Dissemination/Surplus Limb gives 22.7 more DPS.
Would you mind running the spreadsheet again using the latest numbers from 3.1 sim tests?
Warlock_T8_53_00_18 intellect=0.19 spirit=0.77 spell_power=1.54 hit_rating=1.91 crit_rating=0.74 haste_rating=0.96
I'm curious to find out how this will influence your perfect set.

Last edited by phulshof : 03/18/09 at 11:11 AM.

Offline
Old 03/22/09, 9:47 AM   #790
Soren
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
I just tried UA and Immo on the same target and i found
that immo overwrote my UA which doesnt make any sense
since my UA ticked for 777 and Immo ticked for 490.

i checked it multiple times to make sure i had not procs
from trinkets that increase spell power and on a dummy
with no debuffs on him.

Offline
Old 03/22/09, 1:07 PM   #791
Issa
Von Kaiser
 
Issa's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Originally Posted by Soren View Post
I just tried UA and Immo on the same target and i found
that immo overwrote my UA which doesnt make any sense
since my UA ticked for 777 and Immo ticked for 490.

i checked it multiple times to make sure i had not procs
from trinkets that increase spell power and on a dummy
with no debuffs on him.
Makes total sense. The same thing happens with curses: the last one casted will overwrite the one already on the target. Otherwise you could never replace a CoA with CoE.
Did you also try it the other way around, overwriting Immo with UA?

Offline
Old 03/22/09, 1:30 PM   #792
gia
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Genjuros (EU)
New to warlocks, I've read up on all the TC but I was hoping to get some clarification on this:

At what point is it no longer worth it to cast or refresh dots? Say a boss is going to die in 10-15 seconds and dots are not going to get their full duration, which ones are still worth reapplying? At what exact time to kill do the various dots become worse than the filler dps-wise?

Or to pose the same question but in a different way, say you need to do the highest burst damage possible in 10 seconds and no dots are up, what to cast and in what order?

Assuming deep affliction obviously. (I'm also interested in how this might change after 3.1)

Italy Offline
Old 03/22/09, 1:40 PM   #793
Drasil
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kil'Jaeden
This is what I use:

CoA: 12 seconds
SL: 12 seconds
UA: 9 seconds
Immo: 9 seconds
Corr: 9 seconds

Disclaimer: I've only used simple DPCT math to get those numbers, so I'm not sure they're perfect.

I assume your question is specific to Kologarn. I suggest not reapplying any dots at all when Stone Grip hits, and just shadowbolting.

Offline
Old 03/22/09, 2:18 PM   #794
Soren
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Issa View Post
Makes total sense. The same thing happens with curses: the last one casted will overwrite the one already on the target. Otherwise you could never replace a CoA with CoE.
Did you also try it the other way around, overwriting Immo with UA?
Yeah and sorry for not mentioning at the first post.

When i tried to cast UA when Immo was up i had the
"more powerful spell already active" error and that's
what made me think it's weird.

Offline
Old 03/22/09, 2:23 PM   #795
gia
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Genjuros (EU)
It's not just for Kologarn, it's fairly general, I was thinking of all fights where you need to switch target and burn down something quickly, or when a boss is at 2% and all dots are falling off, most of the TC assumes max dot duration so it was a bit of a gray area.

Your list doesn't mention Haunt, it's not a dot but it's still assumed to be up. Is it always first priority?

Italy Offline
Old 03/22/09, 2:29 PM   #796
Drasil
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Kil'Jaeden
I would only refresh haunt if it will fall off before the mob dies.

Offline
Old 03/23/09, 2:24 PM   #797
tuberqlosis
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Black Dragonflight
I was just messing around on the PTR talents for ourselves and I came up with 53/0/15 spec with 3 points left. Note that I have 16.24% hit (yes, that could be made more exact, I already know that), so I have only placed 1 point in Suppression. I also prefer to be self-hitcapped so I'm not reliant on anyone. Anyways, even with 2 more points in Suppression, I have 1-3 points left in my spec, with very little in the ways of improvement. Assuming I don't want to buff my pet through either improved imp or demonic power, i think my best options are spell pushback reductions (fel concentration for affl and intensity for destro). With the "wonderful" simplification coming to affl, I wonder if intensity would be a better option than fel concentration, as it appears we'll be seeing more sbolt spamming. With my 3 points I could even max intensity and put 1 into fel concentration, achieving 54/0/17. Any thoughts?

Offline
Old 03/23/09, 2:45 PM   #798
duhwhat
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by tuberqlosis View Post
I was just messing around on the PTR talents for ourselves and I came up with 53/0/15 spec with 3 points left. Note that I have 16.24% hit (yes, that could be made more exact, I already know that), so I have only placed 1 point in Suppression. I also prefer to be self-hitcapped so I'm not reliant on anyone. Anyways, even with 2 more points in Suppression, I have 1-3 points left in my spec, with very little in the ways of improvement. Assuming I don't want to buff my pet through either improved imp or demonic power, i think my best options are spell pushback reductions (fel concentration for affl and intensity for destro). With the "wonderful" simplification coming to affl, I wonder if intensity would be a better option than fel concentration, as it appears we'll be seeing more sbolt spamming. With my 3 points I could even max intensity and put 1 into fel concentration, achieving 54/0/17. Any thoughts?
I think not relying on a hit debuff when considering a build is a mistake if we're talking about an optimal raid (which is what is going to be assembled for progression). That said, hit is only going to become more of a commodity on gear as tiers progress, so the consideration will become where to put the points from Suppression. What are your reasons for not including Demonic Power? Previously it's been shown that the DPS gain from the mana conservation aspect of Suppression and Cataclysm are negligible, so I agree with your reasoning for going with pushback talents. I don't think Improved Drain Soul is necessary and would favor more points in Fel Concentration. As you spec out of Suppression and into Fel Concentration, and assuming Demonic Power is taken, I feel a single point in Intensity is the best bet, rather than taking a point in Cataclysm as is shown in the default Affliction build. If the BiS setup for Ulduar gear happens to include 11/12% hit, pushback protection is probably going to be superior in practice to the dps gain from mana conservation.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Offline
Old 03/23/09, 7:23 PM   #799
tuberqlosis
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Black Dragonflight
Chopping your post to parts I will be commenting on...

Originally Posted by duhwhat View Post
What are your reasons for not including Demonic Power?

I don't think Improved Drain Soul is necessary and would favor more points in Fel Concentration.

As you spec out of Suppression and into Fel Concentration, and assuming Demonic Power is taken, I feel a single point in Intensity is the best bet, rather than taking a point in Cataclysm as is shown in the default Affliction build.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I am not sure whether push back reduction or a slightly faster imp fireball is better, and I personally would rather improve myself over my pet as affl(considering DP would be the ONLY pet buff I went for, unlike demo or destro). If DP is more of a DPS increase, then that is where the points would go.

The reason I take Imp DS is that I am threat capped as affl now. My gear is a mix 200/213, but I have even had significant threat problems in 25s. The most notable is Maly, where I ride the tank REAL hard. The argument could be made as sbolt spam increases that Destructive Reach, the destro equivalent, returns more overall threat reduction, but I feel locks generate enough threat to mandate the reduction.

I do agree with you that cataclysm, especially with the hit removal, is damn near worthless (even when looking at destro I hate its 2nd tier talents).

Going with 53/0/15, I have 3 points left, but I've already maxed out affl pushback. With these last 3 points I'm looking at some combo of Imp improvement via Demonic Power and/or Improved Imp, threat reduction via Imp DS and/or Destructive Reach, or destro pushback via Intensity and 1 point in the previous fields. However, I've heard the succi's DPS beats the imp's, so unless I hear otherwise I'm probably going to avoid Imp Imp. With these thoughts, my considerations and questions are as follows:

1. With the decreased CD on DG, he will obviously see more action. As his presence increases, is it worth buffing the decreasing presence of my "normal" pet?
2. With the increase in sbolt spam, should I prioritize threat/pushback on destro spells over their affliction counterparts?
3. With my limited 3 points, will the imp surpass the succi in dps (assuming as affl I'm not devoting a glyph slot to a pet and that the succi does in fact currently surpass the imp)?

Offline
Old 03/23/09, 7:42 PM   #800
Heeno
Piston Honda
 
Heeno's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
1. Remember now that Ulduar is here you will be wiping, and your doomguard is only good for one attempt. The average guild does one attempt every five minutes, so your doomguard would be up one out of every six attempts.

2. Even still with all of the changes to affliction, the affliction portion of the rotation still does more damage than the destruction portion, meaning you should prioritize threat reduction for affliction. However, affliction is composed of of DoTs and high DPCT spells, which do not benefit as much from spell pushback like a filler, shadow bolt does.

3. The best way you could deal with those three points is to move two points out of fel concentration into suppression, use a point to finish off suppression, pick up demonic power, and drop 3% hit from your gear for more spellpower.

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Warlocks

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Warlock] Affliction cast-rotation Merin Class Mechanics 26 07/08/08 10:52 AM
[Warlock] new Affliction spec mydoom The Dung Heap 6 06/13/07 1:02 PM
[Warlock] Unstable Affliction or Ruin? Soul80 Class Mechanics 8 05/29/07 1:02 PM
[Warlock] - Affliction Crit/DPS/More ?'s Emolition Class Mechanics 11 05/01/07 5:41 PM
Best gear attainable by a non-raiding affliction warlock ? Nitz Class Mechanics 5 04/30/07 6:08 PM