Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 39

Gyojin · 02/09/09, 5:37 AM

Hi all,

My post is about my dps. Before I start telling what my problem is I will tell some more about the stats etc of my warlock.

I am an Affliction warlock with 54/0/17 build. My gear set up is this:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lands&n=Gyojin

My Glyphs are: Glyph of Syphon Life, Glyph of Immolate, Glyph of Curse of Agony.

As for the rotation I use: SB > Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Immolate > Corruption > Curse of Agony > Siphon Life > Filler Time
And I try heavily to keep up the dots. Also when the boss is at 25% or lower I drop Immolate and instead of using SB as filler I use Drain Soul.

Well thats it I think about my warlock stats.

The problem I have is making me slightly depressed now. The last encounters with patchwork I had about 3.1k dps. Another affliction warlock in my guild with a bit less good gear almost caught up with my dps and thats not right. I even had my Doomguard out on Patchwork when I had 3.1k dps on him. And ofcourse I use my Spellstone.

Also for the last few days I spend about 1/2 hours on a Heroic Training Dummy. And my average dps on a dummy is about 2.9k :S.

I really dont get why my dps is so low. I hope to get some help here for I am doubting about stopping affliction and going destruction again but I really dont want that tbh.

Greeets Gyojin

phulshof · 02/09/09, 6:09 AM

Originally Posted by Gyojin

My post is about my dps. Before I start telling what my problem is I will tell some more about the stats etc of my warlock.
The problem I have is making me slightly depressed now. The last encounters with patchwork I had about 3.1k dps.
Also for the last few days I spend about 1/2 hours on a Heroic Training Dummy. And my average dps on a dummy is about 2.9k :S.

This puzzles me quite a bit. If you can hit 2.9K on a dummy, then 3.1K on Patch is indeed way too low. Either you had some serious problems during Patch, or the rest of your raid is sound asleep. My stats are nowhere near yours, I hit maybe 2.5K on a dummy (been a few weeks since I tried), but about 4.1K on Patch (with fellpuppy). You wouldn't happen to have a combat log of that fight would you? Did you perhaps die right before the Patch fight, and they forgot to rebuff you?

Gyojin · 02/09/09, 6:15 AM

Yeah thats what puzzles me too tbh. I had raid buffs and everyone was focused. Unfortunatly I dont have a log of it because I still have to find out how to get that. When I try it on a dummy and look at the Recount Graph I have some major downs and ups in dps. Reaching to 3600 and falling to like 2100 =/. I dont know if its my gear or casting speed etc.

phulshof · 02/09/09, 6:29 AM

Originally Posted by Gyojin

Yeah thats what puzzles me too tbh. I had raid buffs and everyone was focused. Unfortunatly I dont have a log of it because I still have to find out how to get that. When I try it on a dummy and look at the Recount Graph I have some major downs and ups in dps. Reaching to 3600 and falling to like 2100 =/. I dont know if its my gear or casting speed etc.

Well, statwise I can't see a reason for you not to be doing well; you're several big steps ahead of me with your equipment. I used to hit 3.2K back when my SP was still around 1500 and my haste rating almost non-existent. Next time you're there, see if someone in your party can run the logs so you can post them for analysis here. I certainly wouldn't see this as a reason to give up on affliction.

I bought myself a toy a few weeks ago, and it has helped me tremendously in my rotation. It's not for the small handed person perhaps, but I couldn't imagine playing without it anymore.

Gyojin · 02/09/09, 7:05 AM

Yeah maybe I should just look on google on how to to the WWS thing. Next Patchwork fight is prob on Thursday so I have to wait.
And you toy is a G15 keyboard or something like that? :P not that i use it but a friend does.

Rookz · 02/09/09, 7:10 AM

Originally Posted by Gyojin

As for the rotation I use: SB > Haunt > Unstable Affliction > Immolate > Corruption > Curse of Agony > Siphon Life > Filler Time
Greeets Gyojin

Just one question to get that clarified ... why is everybody casting SL at the end of their rotation? I mean SL ticks for 30 seconds so if we cast it right before CoA both dots are on the mob for almost the same time. With GCD SL is at 29 seconds when glyphed-CoA hits the Mob with 28 seconds (ideal situation, no lags and stuff).

So my idea is like: SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > SL > CoA > Corruption > Filler

Is there something I don't see atm?

tuberqlosis · 02/09/09, 7:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rookz

Just one question to get that clarified ... why is everybody casting SL at the end of their rotation?

SL is cast at the end because it has one of the lower DPCT's of all of our dots, so its one of the smaller parts of our rotation:

Originally Posted by Namnalia

Siphon Life:
damage / cast time = 5111.30 DPCT
damage / cast time = 7351.45 DPCT
damage / tick = 639.76
damage / tick = 874.63

Compare that to say...Corruption, with only a 15sec duration (or infinite if Haunt is kept up correctly, as it should be).

Originally Posted by Namnalia

damage/ cast time = 8368.00 DPCT (or infinity with haunt)
damage / cast time = 12379.41 DPCT (or infinity with haunt)
damage / tick=1745.64
damage / tick=2454.70

phulshof · 02/09/09, 8:04 AM

Originally Posted by Gyojin

Yeah maybe I should just look on google on how to to the WWS thing. Next Patchwork fight is prob on Thursday so I have to wait.
And you toy is a G15 keyboard or something like that? :P not that i use it but a friend does.

The toy was linked to an image; feel free to check it out.

It's not a full keyboard like the G15; it's a left hand keypad with thumb controller.

duhwhat · 02/09/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by tuberqlosis

SL is cast at the end because it has one of the lower DPCT's of all of our dots, so its one of the smaller parts of our rotation:

Compare that to say...Corruption, with only a 15sec duration (or infinite if Haunt is kept up correctly, as it should be).

I have yet to see a cogent explanation of why initial cast sequence matters for any fight lasting longer than one or two cycles of SL/CoA. Even with Patchwerk times approaching "best in world" times of 1:30, we are still getting 3 full cycles of SL. To Rookz, the poster above, I agree with your reasoning for SL before CoA, and I use this sequence myself for the simple reason that it is a very handy internal timing mechanism, and it ensures that as long as SL is never clipped, CoA is never clipped as well. This is similar to the UA/Immo coupling strategy.

Galanna · 02/09/09, 1:11 PM

Well, assuming the fight is longer than a complete cycle, that excluding the ramp up you have 100% dot uptime without cliping and that you don't know the exact fight length (so you can't time it to have dot expire as the boss), the full cycle after the ramp up have the same DPS whatever the ramp up is. So the only difference between ramp ups is the damage done during each ramp up and its duration.

So DPCT is not directly important, because long duration low tics dots do less damage during ramp up than low duration high tics ones (except if their duration is low enough that you have to cast them twice during the ramp up!). What is important for the ramp up is the spell effective DPS (and effects on other spells, haunt/SE I look at you).

If two ramp up have the same duration, the one with the more damage is better.
If one ramp up is longer than another, to compare them you have to apply a bonus to the shorter one equal to the duration difference times the 'full cycle DPS'.
(CoA starting earlier can raise the probability of having one more instance of the higher tics, and starting it at the end a probability of having one more instance of the lower tics. So maybe you would have to take thant in account, but I'm not sure how to do so. Maybe a bonus/malus like <time left on CoA after ramp up>/<CoA time>*<difference between 'the rest of the first CoA after ramp up DPS' and 'total CoA DPS'> ?)

As an example:
As "SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > SL > CoA > Corr" and "SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > Corr > CA > SL" have the same duration, all that is important is the tic damage (and all tics have Haunt + 2 stack SE).
So the only difference between these 2 ramp up is the difference between 1 corruption tic and 1 SL tic.

Rhad · 02/09/09, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Galanna

As an example:
As "SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > SL > CoA > Corr" and "SB > Haunt > UA > Immo > Corr > CA > SL" have the same duration, all that is important is the tic damage (and all tics have Haunt + 2 stack SE).
So the only difference between these 2 ramp up is the difference between 1 corruption tic and 1 SL tic.

And so, the logical conclusion is, dont worry about DPCT or DPS for ramp-up in boss fights, since if there is any gain, it is negligible. Instead, concentrate on grouping your DoTs and anything else to make management and reapplication of those DoTs easier. DoT management is our key stone. If we do it well, we rule. If we don't, we suck.

Rhad · 02/09/09, 4:09 PM

Namnalia, your new Talent Choice section is incredible! It's exactly what I was looking for; a conversion of talents to overall DPS. One question... You state,

Note that I rated Soul Siphon higher than Improved Drain Soul here (Improved Drain Soul does not influence dps directly). If you have aggro problems (And you should!) you might want to switch priorities here.

For those of us that need Suppression and Cataclym maxed but have threat issues, would it make more sense to sacrifice the 17.98 DPS from 2 points in Nightfall and put those 2 points into Improved Drain Soul (threat reduction) than to sacrifice Soul Siphon for IDS?

Basically, how much overall DPS do 2 points in Soul Siphon add? More or less than the 17.98 that 2 in Nightfall provides?

EDIT: Changed statement above to "17.98 DPS" since Nightfall is worth 8.99 dps PER POINT.

Drasil · 02/09/09, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Rhad

And so, the logical conclusion is, dont worry about DPCT or DPS for ramp-up in boss fights, since if there is any gain, it is negligible. Instead, concentrate on grouping your DoTs and anything else to make management and reapplication of those DoTs easier. DoT management is our key stone. If we do it well, we rule. If we don't, we suck.

On a similar note, I think it's a bad idea to put CoA after UA/Immo, in your starting sequence. In 28 seconds, you will have UA collide with CoA. (at least in my experience, and other locks i've talked to.) Instead, I put CoA before UA/Immo, even though it is less DPS initially.

duhwhat · 02/09/09, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Drasil

On a similar note, I think it's a bad idea to put CoA after UA/Immo, in your starting sequence. In 28 seconds, you will have UA collide with CoA. (at least in my experience, and other locks i've talked to.) Instead, I put CoA before UA/Immo, even though it is less DPS initially.

I counter this phenomenon with Corr before UA/Immo. My opener is: SB - Haunt - Corr - UA - Immo - SL - CoA.

briandhaney · 02/09/09, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by duhwhat

I counter this phenomenon with Corr before UA/Immo. My opener is: SB - Haunt - Corr - UA - Immo - SL - CoA.

That was the change I was looking for. I ran into that issue myself so I am glad someone was able to test that out.

Thank you sir.