Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 55

Shai · 01/13/10, 6:03 AM

Quick math based on a few personal ICC logs:

Corruption/UA amount to roughly 50% of my damage. Slightly less if I lose the initial power-corruption for whatever reason, more if there are adds that warrant dotting up. Assuming the set bonus is responsible for 10% of that damage, I conclude it's a ~5% damage increase overall. Feel free to point out mistakes in that logic.

dakalro · 01/13/10, 10:30 AM

Just realized there might be a problem with 4T10 set bonus. As far as I know, since the start of WotLK dots never updated with +%dmg buffs on player unless you reapplied the dot, in which case they held that buff until expiration. Wouldn't this make the bonus possibly extremely bad for affliction then?
Unless you wait for that 15% chance to apply/reapply corruption but in that case we might lose NIC/Wild Magic bonus on the spell or give up NIC until the proc and just use Wild Magic during hero/on 35% reapplication.
We already have a shaky <35% 12% bonus to Corr due to the same behavior unless NIC is back off CD and we reapply, add in 4T10 and it seems like doing highest possible DPS becomes a juggling act with do I lose more by waiting rather than just skipping a bonus that would in theory be very good.
As far as I can tell, up to around 40s of time left on boss warrants a reapplication of Corr if you get an extra 10% (or 12% or 24% crit) so on longer fights the wait should be worth the boost.

Cahrin · 01/13/10, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Shai

Quick math based on a few personal ICC logs:

Corruption/UA amount to roughly 50% of my damage. Slightly less if I lose the initial power-corruption for whatever reason, more if there are adds that warrant dotting up. Assuming the set bonus is responsible for 10% of that damage, I conclude it's a ~5% damage increase overall. Feel free to point out mistakes in that logic.

I would say a more accurate percentage is 35-45%. It's generally 35% on single target fights, and more like 40-45% on multi target fights. So say 40% for simplicity's sake:

(Base C+UA damage) * 110% = 40% of total damage
Base C+UA damage = 40 / 1.1 = 36.36%
T9 4P bonus is then 40% - 36.36% = 3.64% of total damage

So at varying DPS levels:

7000 -> 254.8
8000 -> 291.2
9000 -> 327.6
10000 -> 364

I would guess the average person is somewhere in the 8500 area, so a bit more than 300 dps is gained from T9 4 piece. This is roughly the same value as was measured by someone a while back using simcraft.

Using these scaling factors -> Spi: 1.2, Crit: 1.37, Haste: 1.98, SP: 2.25

I calculate the following DPS gains from switching from T9 245 to T10 251:

Helm: 98.07
Shoulders: 75.17
Gloves: 21.23

I've only done three pieces since I was moving from Merlin's to T10 (pretty much straight upgrade, no bonus loss) for my chest and I'm not planning on using the T10 legs.

A while back someone posted that T10 2P was worth around 100 DPS. If we say SB is about 30% of your overall, you get a 1.5% increase which is about 120 DPS at 8500 DPS.

So, overall:

Upgrading T9 245 to T10 251 Helm + Shoulders is equal to 98.07 + 75.17 + 100 to 120 = 273.24 to 293.24. So, by doing both pieces, you break roughly even when everything gets averaged out. If you're moving to 264 pieces, you'll come out a bit ahead.

YMMV on the actual change as it'll depend a fair bit on the scaling factors and the accuracy of the various bonuses. However, I feel this is a good approximation to use as a jumping off point.

Flyfunner · 01/13/10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Aaryndon

@ Flyfunner:
As stated earlier in the thread, %dmg debuffs on target do not carry over on corruption refreshes. Buffs on YOU (like TOTT) may do this, but I suspect it'd be a DPS loss to actually wait on them, and TOTT on a warlock is certainly not something I as a raid leader would want to see in my own raids, for several reasons. Ultimately all we can or should control (that I can think of off-hand) are maximum normal raid buffs, pre-combat potion, and NIC.

Yeah I know that +X% Dmg Debuffs are calculated per Tick, but I'd only mention +X% Dmg Buffs on you, and these ones are still rolling.

also, Potion of wild magic gives you 4.3% Critchance, while Tricks of the Trade give you 15% additional dmg, so it just multiplies your dmg with 1.15 (as far as I know it works multiplicatively like Curse of Elements and so on), which is far better than just 4.3% Critchance (seriously, thats not much).

Surely it will be hard to combine T10 4P with Tricks of the Trades, but trying it cant be wrong.

Docehedron · 01/14/10, 8:51 PM

I use a macro with "castsequence" to rotate through the inital opening. With the macro, I trigger the NMIC at the beginning of the sequence, i.e., the first shadowbolt. Is there a way to trigger the usage of the NMIC at the same time as the casting of corruption using the castsequence command?

Warlocomotif · 01/14/10, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Docehedron

I use a macro with "castsequence" to rotate through the inital opening. With the macro, I trigger the NMIC at the beginning of the sequence, i.e., the first shadowbolt. Is there a way to trigger the usage of the NMIC at the same time as the casting of corruption using the castsequence command?

Avoid using cast sequence macros, they're make the game unable to que casts until the server knows your cast was finished (Ie: There will be a lot more time between your casts).

randa · 01/15/10, 7:32 AM

I have reworked warlock script for Ovale - WoW AddOns - CurseForge.com and made it more straightforward and accommodated for 55/0/16 affliction build. It could be tested some more but I think it is usable. I have posted this here because I don't know how would moderators react if a made new post. After addon installation just type "/ovale code" and past this code. For bellow 25% part DST is still needed for you to know when to cast suggested spell (interrupt drain soul channeling).

Define(CURSEELEMENTS 1490)
Define(CURSEAGONY 980)
Define(UNSTABLEAFFLICTION 30108)
Define(CORRUPTION 172)
Define(SHADOWBOLT 686)
Define(HAUNT 48181)
Define(DRAINSOUL 47855)
Define(SHADOWEMBRACE 32391)
Define(FELARMOR 28176)
Define(SPELLSTONE 2362)
Define(LIFETAP 1454)
Define(LIFETAPBUFF 63321)
Define(GLYPHOFLIFETAP 63320)
Define(SHADOWTRANCE 17941)

AddListItem(curse elements SpellName(CURSEELEMENTS))
AddListItem(curse agony SpellName(CURSEAGONY) default)

SpellInfo(HAUNT cd=8)
SpellInfo(DRAINSOUL canStopChannelling=5)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(CORRUPTION CORRUPTION=18)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(CURSEAGONY CURSEAGONY=24)
SpellAddTargetDebeuff(CURSEELEMENTS CURSEELEMENTS=300)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(UNSTABLEAFFLICTION UNSTABLEAFFLICTION=15)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(HAUNT HAUNT=12)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(HAUNT SHADOWEMBRACE=12)
SpellAddTargetDebuff(SHADOWBOLT SHADOWEMBRACE=12)
SpellAddBuff(LIFETAP LIFETAPBUFF=40 glyph=GLYPHOFLIFETAP)

ScoreSpells(CURSEELEMENTS SHADOWBOLT HAUNT UNSTABLEAFFLICTION CURSEAGONY CORRUPTION DRAINSOUL SHADOWBOLT)

AddIcon help=main
{
if BuffExpires(FELARMOR) Spell(FELARMOR)
if WeaponEnchantExpires(mainhand 5) Spell(SPELLSTONE)
if BuffExpires(LIFETAPBUFF) Spell(LIFETAP)

if List(curse elements) and TargetDebuffExpires(CURSEELEMENTS 2) and TargetDeadIn(more 10) Spell(CURSEELEMENTS)
if TargetLifePercent(more 25) and TargetDebuffExpires(SHADOWEMBRACE 0) Spell(SHADOWBOLT)
if TargetLifePercent(more 25) and TargetDebuffExpires(SHADOWEMBRACE 0) Spell(HAUNT)
if TargetDebuffExpires(HAUNT 4 mine=1 haste=spell) Spell(HAUNT)
if TargetDebuffExpires(UNSTABLEAFFLICTION 1.5 mine=1 haste=spell) and TargetDeadIn(more 10) Spell(UNSTABLEAFFLICTION)
if TargetDebuffExpires(CORRUPTION 0 mine=1) and TargetDeadIn(more 10) Spell(CORRUPTION)
if List(curse agony) and TargetLifePercent(more 25) and TargetDebuffExpires(CURSEAGONY 0 mine=1) Spell(CURSEAGONY)

if TargetLifePercent(more 25) Spell(SHADOWBOLT)

if TargetLifePercent(less 25) Spell(DRAINSOUL)

}

AddIcon size=small
{
if TargetDebuffExpires(CURSEAGONY 0 mine=1) and List(curse agony) and TargetLifePercent(less 25) Spell(CURSEAGONY)
}

AddIcon size=small
{
if BuffPresent(SHADOWTRANCE)  Spell(SHADOWBOLT)
}

Namnalia · 01/15/10, 9:05 AM

I updated the first post to 3.3.
As usual, if you find any errors just write me a PM and I'll correct it as soon as possible, if there is something you want to discuss, use the thread itself.

Bruscha · 01/16/10, 2:57 AM

I have an alt that I spec moonkin; in skimming through the forums I found a discussion on Nibelung proc rates for moonkin.

Moonkin Raiding
Their data is indicating that starfall and wrath n are getting an extra chance to proc the Valks when they apply the earth and moon debuff. The game appears to be treating the debuff as a separate spell cast. A simliar effect was soon with the starfire glyph that extends moonfires duration.

It made me wonder if the affliction spells that apply the debuffs in a similar manner would have the same effect.

Specifically:
Affliction Shadowbolt - a chance on spell cast, a chance for applying ISb, a chance for applying shadow embrace, and a chance on corruption refresh. For a proc rate of 4%
Haunt: Haunt cast, haunt debuff applied, and shadow embrace applied for a 3% proc rate.

I want to go spam shadowbolts at a dummy but can't right now. Was wondering if someone has already done any testing along these lines.

Edit:
1000 Shadowbolt Casts - 39 Valks procs a proc percentage of 4%. So it does appear that shadowbolt has a chance to proc 4 times .

♦ Blacksen · 01/16/10, 2:21 PM

Just a few question regarding NIC and Corruption mechanics.

Is there a reason why we don't hold this out to an extreme? [Potion of Wild Magic] seems to almost take the cake if you're popping heroism at the start. Heroism goes out, chug the potion, pop the trinket, cast corruption, and get going. Obviously some fights this wouldn't apply, but Festergut / Rotface seem to be highly optimal. So, with this mechanic now understood, should we be using [Potion of Speed] or [Potion of Wild Magic]?

Also, if you're using NIC and cast Corruption while Corruption is still up, does this overwrite the crit modifier? Somewhat wondering about fights where you have to move quite a bit (say, Rotface). And lastly, does corruption's DPCT make it "worth it" to maintain it across multiple targets? Basically, I'm looking ahead to the council fight. It seems that with such a high DPCT, it might be worth just casting Corruption up on one target while keeping Shadow Mastery / Shadow Embrace up on the targets. With this cycling through targets, it seems like it might not be feasible to maintain ALL DoT's up at a time.

Warlocomotif · 01/16/10, 2:28 PM

Potion of wild magic before the pull.

dwyak · 01/16/10, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bornakk

We changed the way PPM procs work to make sure many of the weapons and trinkets did their expected performance in Icecrown instead of proc'ing too much for some specs or classes or forcing players into unusual behavior to try and fish for the procs. This change also affected some older mechanics in the game too such as the Berserking enchant. For the most part the intent is that these systems all proc off of attacks and they are balanced with that assumption.

At this time we're happy with the damage that characters are now doing after these changes, though we'll continue to monitor and adjust damage overall and that includes the proc-based items.

It seems that Blizzard has tweaked the set of abilities that can proc. I am wondering if there is any change on Nibelung proc for afflic locks.

Damagejack · 01/17/10, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by dwyak

It seems that Blizzard has tweaked the set of abilities that can proc. I am wondering if there is any change on Nibelung proc for afflic locks.

I would assume it affects everyone.

Cerevantes · 01/17/10, 8:03 AM

I did several searches of this and the compendium threads and didn't find any results to this question I have regarding haste and Everlasting Affliction.

My Lock is packing 850 haste atm. Low I know, but rising. This puts me at 26% spell haste, which should put my Corruption ticks around 2.36 seconds apart from each other. However, my cast time on Shadowbolt sans-Eradication is 1.98 seconds. Wouldn't this mean that while shadowbolt spamming I would prevent my corruption from ticking by continuously pushing it back? My corruption is dealing ~36% of my raid damage so i would suspect that I am missing something. Stacking haste to get a corruption tick to occur before a shadowbolt would hit also seems like an uphill battle as haste will also make shadowbolts cast faster.

I apologize if this has been answered before countless times. I am new to warlocking and easily could have missed this info.

::EDIT:: I found the answer on wowhead of all places. Here is the post Apparently Everlasting Affliction will wait until your corruption ticks before refreshing the duration, which explains the incredible efficiency of Corruption.

Leaving my post here instead of deleting in the hope that others will be able to use it.

Bruscha · 01/17/10, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Damagejack

I would assume it affects everyone.

I wouldn't be so sure.
The original post was dated 1/13. So that's probably when the fix to the ppm mechanic went in. Bornakk just waited until now to respond to the post. I did my testing yesterday so unless they hotfixed it Nibelung should still proc more for affliction warlocks.

I wanted to confirm so i just did another 1000 shadowbolts with corruption up for EA.
39 Valk Proc in 1000 casts - Matching the results I got yesterday of 4% chance for sb cast with isb, se, and EA which is 3% above what the proc is supposed to be.

So Nibelung hasn't been changed as far as I can so; unless I am very lucky.
It's also definitely on an internal cd or ppm basis. I had 4 valks up at once several times.

sjaub · 01/17/10, 6:52 PM

is it more dps as affliction to pre-pot wild magic pot then pop a potion of speed later in the fight

or just pot wild magic both times?

thanks

reality_check · 01/17/10, 7:15 PM

So I have been reading through the posts and and have come to acknowledge that like Crit, %damage buffs on you roll with Corruption as well. So does that suggest that we should reapply Corruption when the boss goes below 35% health in order to gain benefit from Death's Embrace?

Mupki · 01/17/10, 10:32 PM

If you want 12% more damage from Death's Embrace on your Corruption damage, then yes.

Warlocomotif · 01/17/10, 11:06 PM

Deaths embrace is not a buff, you will most likely benefit from the talent without the need to recast corruption.

Flyfunner · 01/18/10, 2:16 AM

No, thats sadly not the caste. Death's Embrace Bonus on Corruption is also rolling. Tested it several times.
Well ok my last test was some time ago (several weeks), but Death Embrace, in generall, works very similar to a buff

téhanu · 01/18/10, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by randa

I have reworked warlock script for Ovale - WoW AddOns - CurseForge.com and made it more straightforward and accommodated for 55/0/16 affliction build.

Could you do a script for 56/0/15 DP build too? Especially if it is possible for the addon to suggest DP only when the doggy is in range.

Freakz0r · 01/18/10, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Flyfunner

No, thats sadly not the caste. Death's Embrace Bonus on Corruption is also rolling. Tested it several times.
Well ok my last test was some time ago (several weeks), but Death Embrace, in generall, works very similar to a buff

Please post segments of a combat log proving that.
The way I understand it flat damage buffs on you are rolled flat damage debuffs on you are not. While Death's Embrace is neither I can certainly notice higher corruption ticks during the last 35% phase.

• Zakalwe · 01/18/10, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Freakz0r

Please post segments of a combat log proving that.
The way I understand it flat damage buffs on you are rolled flat damage debuffs on you are not. While Death's Embrace is neither I can certainly notice higher corruption ticks during the last 35% phase.

It's hard to *prove* that with a simple combat log, since the combat log doesn't show mob health. But I just went out and tested this, and he appears to be right. Corruption doesn't benefit from death's embrace unless you recast it.

Flyfunner · 01/19/10, 1:51 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

It's hard to *prove* that with a simple combat log, since the combat log doesn't show mob health. But I just went out and tested this, and he appears to be right. Corruption doesn't benefit from death's embrace unless you recast it.

Yeah thats true, I dont see any use of a combat log. Anyway, its not hard to test it yourself, just go to the Target's on the Argent Tournament, they're most likely on 100% health when you get there, just apply corruption to them and keep it up for a while, then let it fall off and cast it again while the target is still under 35%.

It was always the case, that Death's Embrace Bonus is not applied to your running dots (and is not applied on corruptions refresh either). I already noticed that back in early Naxxramas runs, and it still didnt change.

tichphys · 01/19/10, 2:54 AM

I suppose this means a combat potion (wild magic) ought to be used for the 35% corruption refresh, correct? This would be in contrast to pairing with bloodlust or something...