Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 6

Namnalia · 12/09/08, 8:58 AM

Okay, thanks for the help so far!

-I did change the immolate coefficients to 0.2 and 1.0 (dot), tested it myself, seems to be right.
-I took out shadow embrace as a coefficent for CoD
-I include NF procs in the overall damage calculation
-I included Amplify Curse now

This changed the results slightly. The mana component is not in yet, but it's not too important right now. I guess I will start to make a complete list of epic gear now, compared by the stat-to-dps rates I calculated. That will be a lot of easy work to do :-)

Btw, as stated above, I know that there is no spell hit cap anymore. But the test warlock has just 10% hit rating, he still misses bosses in a normal raid situation, but that's his fault, not mine! I personally hit all the bosses! :-) The idea behind this was that it is easier to see what more spell hit does when it still DOES something.

Aeetes · 12/09/08, 9:54 PM

So after looking at a recount breakdown after loathib in 25 man naxx, i'm beginning to wonder about crit. I had the spore buff for almost the entire fight and recount reported pandemic as my 2nd damage dealing ability after SB. I forget exactly how long the fight was, but I proc'd pandemic 151 times. As an aff raiding lock pre 3.0, I never put much stock in cirt over 10-12%. However, with pandemic added to help scale aff lock's most powerful 2 dots with crit, I wonder if it's not worth stacking much more than i originally thought. My first step after hitting 80 was getting hit capped, which is obviously vital to a spec thats so dependent on a delicate rotation. My next goal was orginally to stack up haste while shoring up SP...I haven't looked at the gear too closely, does anyone know what kind of stats I should shoot for, or does the gear simply provide both and make it easy on us?

• dragon12 · 12/10/08, 3:16 AM

Originally Posted by Aeetes

So after looking at a recount breakdown after loathib in 25 man naxx, i'm beginning to wonder about crit. I had the spore buff for almost the entire fight and recount reported pandemic as my 2nd damage dealing ability after SB. I forget exactly how long the fight was, but I proc'd pandemic 151 times. As an aff raiding lock pre 3.0, I never put much stock in cirt over 10-12%. However, with pandemic added to help scale aff lock's most powerful 2 dots with crit, I wonder if it's not worth stacking much more than i originally thought. My first step after hitting 80 was getting hit capped, which is obviously vital to a spec thats so dependent on a delicate rotation. My next goal was orginally to stack up haste while shoring up SP...I haven't looked at the gear too closely, does anyone know what kind of stats I should shoot for, or does the gear simply provide both and make it easy on us?

You're doing it wrong. There should be no "stacking up on blah blah" to particular points, unless you have a fetish for hit and you want it maxed. After you cap hit then you just figure out which pieces of gear are better for you using relative weights for each stat. I posted a reply to the crit-is-great-because-of-pandemic fallacy here, so I may as well just link it than spout the same thing again.

fip · 12/10/08, 10:46 AM

I must have missed something in the past few months by why are you multiplying everything by .85 "boss level". Since when did a boss being higher level reduce your damage by that much?

On Corruption you have the following:
+0.30 (Everlasting Affliction)

Pretty sure it's 5% just like the talent reads.

Seir · 12/10/08, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by pittgilman

I have noticed the same thing and would love to see numbers on this. I feel as if haunt's corruption recast is somehow missing...not sure if that is effected by a different hit...since I am hit capped...no idea...I just read, you guys crunch =).

I was also curious as to what you guys though of 4 pce t7 bonus...the DPCT for that proc just doesn't seem to be at all worth it for taking up two items slots. I am looking at using pants/gloves for 2 pce and calling it a day...since they are the best pants/gloves in game atm that I have seen.

I've noticed a few things about this at least for me:

Only seems to happen in a group situation; I cannot seem to replicate it on the heroic dummy, but I've definitely noticed it happening in raids, so I'm guessing that it could be a bug caused by another debuff on the target.

Also there's no miss message as I thought I might have seen before, corruption just seems to randomly end with a haunt application.

I guess the other possibility is lag so while corruption is ending server side before haunt lands I'm not seeing that client side, but I have a good computer with Fios and I live only an hour or so away from the server I play on, so it would have to be server lag which seems like it would be an impossible amount of server lag to see regularly.

Addendum: also the haunt would have to line up with the corruption ending spontaneously often and the chances of that are just not possible :/

Nadagast · 12/10/08, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Seir

I've noticed a few things about this at least for me:

Only seems to happen in a group situation; I cannot seem to replicate it on the heroic dummy, but I've definitely noticed it happening in raids, so I'm guessing that it could be a bug caused by another debuff on the target.

Also there's no miss message as I thought I might have seen before, corruption just seems to randomly end with a haunt application.

I guess the other possibility is lag so while corruption is ending server side before haunt lands I'm not seeing that client side, but I have a good computer with Fios and I live only an hour or so away from the server I play on, so it would have to be server lag which seems like it would be an impossible amount of server lag to see regularly.

Addendum: also the haunt would have to line up with the corruption ending spontaneously often and the chances of that are just not possible :/

I'm not 100% sure about this but I have noticed it too, and I think what's happening is when Haunt reapplies Corruption, the ticks don't line up with the 3 second markers anymore, and so Corruption ends earlier than the seconds remaining on the debuff shows, because the game stops the debuff when there are no more ticks left.

Think about this situation:
at t=0 cast Corruption
at t=17 Haunt lands on target
at t=18 you get the first tick of the Haunt'd Corruption, Corruption shows 17 seconds left
t=21 2nd tick, Corruption shows 14 seconds
t=24 3rd tick, Corruption shows 11 seconds
t=27 4th tick, Corruption shows 8 seconds
t=30 5th tick, Corruption shows 5 seconds
t=33 6th tick, Corruption shows 2 seconds
At this point (t=33) I think the Haunted Corruption ends. Even though the game shows it as having 2 seconds left, I think it just removes the debuff. So you have to have Haunt land before 3 seconds remaining on your Haunted Corruption, because after 3 seconds remaining on a Haunted Corruption, it could drop at any time, depending on the timing of the ticks.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think it's how it works. Someone could test it?

Galanna · 12/10/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

13 talent points for 9% of your spirit as spellpower (plus 54)? I do not understand the fetish some people have with demonic aegic, it seems totally unreasonable to me. Even at 500 spirit the talent is barely going to push 100 bonus spellpower, compared to around 7% of your DPS from crit shadowbolts as affliction (in a fully raid-buffed scenario). It compares worse and worse to ruin as your gear improves with ambient crit rating.

Well, depending on your stats, I think this may not be as unreasonable.
Using the math from the OP, ruin only accounts for ~111dps, while 100 spellpower additional spellpower would give ~103dps. 53/13/5 also gives you 3% life mana, 10% stamina, 15% and 0.6% of your life every 5s.

With this kind of stuff, is 8dps out of ~3K really that better than the added survival (not even counting pet survival) ?

Then, 53/13/5 does improve as your gear improves, due to having higher spirit. Every 10 spirit added give 30% of 3.11dps from Demonic Aegis, or ~0.9 dps according to the OP.
Ruin adds 50% of something less than 3.79dps every 10 crit rating, because this 3.79dps also account for Haunt, Corruption and UA crits, which do not benefits from ruin. But I think it should be something higher than 1dps, and thus scale better than Demonic Aegis.

Long story short, at the entry level, 53/13/5 may be viable depending on the number of spirit and crit on your stuff. At higher levels, less and less.

Seir · 12/10/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nadagast

I'm not 100% sure about this but I have noticed it too, and I think what's happening is when Haunt reapplies Corruption, the ticks don't line up with the 3 second markers anymore, and so Corruption ends earlier than the seconds remaining on the debuff shows, because the game stops the debuff when there are no more ticks left.

Think about this situation:
at t=0 cast Corruption
at t=17 Haunt lands on target
at t=18 you get the first tick of the Haunt'd Corruption, Corruption shows 17 seconds left
t=21 2nd tick, Corruption shows 14 seconds
t=24 3rd tick, Corruption shows 11 seconds
t=27 4th tick, Corruption shows 8 seconds
t=30 5th tick, Corruption shows 5 seconds
t=33 6th tick, Corruption shows 2 seconds
At this point (t=33) I think the Haunted Corruption ends. Even though the game shows it as having 2 seconds left, I think it just removes the debuff. So you have to have Haunt land before 3 seconds remaining on your Haunted Corruption, because after 3 seconds remaining on a Haunted Corruption, it could drop at any time, depending on the timing of the ticks.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think it's how it works. Someone could test it?

So your saying you think maybe when it refreshes the corruption it bugs somehow and ends up being more like a 17 second corruption?

Trickykid · 12/10/08, 3:28 PM

Originally Posted by Galanna

Well, depending on your stats, I think this may not be as unreasonable.
Using the math from the OP, ruin only accounts for ~111dps, while 100 spellpower additional spellpower would give ~103dps. 53/13/5 also gives you 3% life mana, 10% stamina, 15% and 0.6% of your life every 5s.

With this kind of stuff, is 8dps out of ~3K really that better than the added survival (not even counting pet survival) ?

Then, 53/13/5 does improve as your gear improves, due to having higher spirit. Every 10 spirit added give 30% of 3.11dps from Demonic Aegis, or ~0.9 dps according to the OP.
Ruin adds 50% of something less than 3.79dps every 10 crit rating, because this 3.79dps also account for Haunt, Corruption and UA crits, which do not benefits from ruin. But I think it should be something higher than 1dps, and thus scale better than Demonic Aegis.

Long story short, at the entry level, 53/13/5 may be viable depending on the number of spirit and crit on your stuff. At higher levels, less and less.

Almost all specs are "viable" now, the question is choosing the small differences that boost one above another. Responding to your above post, you don't just lose ruin, you also lose the 5 points in ISB. Both of those lost talents scale with gear (and not just with crit rating). It's also nice to be able to burst a bit more when "add must die" fights present themselves.

Darkstarrz · 12/10/08, 4:04 PM

I was wondering if the difference between one and two points in erradication made a big difference or not in terms of dps gained or lost. I have been raiding the past two raids as affliction with two points talented in eradication, and today was going to make a change and drop it to one so I could place another point in cataclysm in the detro tree for some more hit. Good idea, bad idea? Should I have three points in eradication? I just dont like sacrificing three points in a talent that only has a possibility and not a definate chance to proc when I could be placing them elsewear in more stable talents. Thats just me, any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

fip · 12/10/08, 4:15 PM

10 spell power = 10.36 dps
10 hit rating = 11.29 dps
10 haste rating = 3.92 dps
10 crit rating = 3.79 dps
10 spirit = 3.11 dps
10 int = 1.04 dps
(see math part).

Here, I'll do some math for you:
Because 10 is a stupid number to use, I changed them all to 1:
1 spell power = 1.036 dps
1 hit rating = 1.129 dps
1 haste rating = .392 dps
1 crit rating = .379 dps
1 spirit = .311 dps
1 int = .104 dps

1 spirit * 1.1 (BoK) * .3 (Fel Armor) * 1.036 (your value for spellpower dps) = 0.34188 dps per spirit, compared to your value of .311.

Also, nobody has responded to my concern: what the heck is this ".85" "Boss Level Target" coefficient you're using. Last I checked a boss' level does not cut my damage by 15% magically.

pghiocel · 12/10/08, 4:22 PM

Somebody posted in the official forums that "Empowered Corruption & Improved Corruption - Haunt not refreshing Corruption with the bonus modifiers."

I know that Haunt doesn't refresh Corruption using the original spell dmg of the Corruption cast, but is the above also true?

Speaking of Haunt, what spell dmg value is Haunt using to refresh Corruption? Base Spell Dmg? Current Spell Dmg at the moment of Haunt Cast (or Land)?

Mindaika · 12/10/08, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Trickykid

Almost all specs are "viable" now, the question is choosing the small differences that boost one above another. Responding to your above post, you don't just lose ruin, you also lose the 5 points in ISB. Both of those lost talents scale with gear (and not just with crit rating). It's also nice to be able to burst a bit more when "add must die" fights present themselves.

Definitely true, but SB is only used for 75% of the fight, and only accounts for ~21% of the damage for the entire fight. DA would increase the damage of DS below 25% as well. I don't know if that difference is, or will be greater. I imagine only empirical testing will show.

Consider, e.g., a build like 53/13/5, using a buffed imp (better DPS over Felpuppy anyway). You'd be trading ISB, Ruin, and 2 pts in Eradication for Imp imp, DA, and some stam/int buffs.

Also, nobody has responded to my concern: what the heck is this ".85" "Boss Level Target" coefficient you're using. Last I checked a boss' level does not cut my damage by 15% magically.

Best I can guess is this is meant to cover the innate resistance/mitigation values of +3lvl targets.

Edit: For more ideas

pittgilman · 12/10/08, 10:02 PM

The last piece of the puzzle for me is:
Erradication vs Molten Core.

Anyone have numbers to show which is better?

reesj · 12/10/08, 11:59 PM

On the topic of affliction thing that I noticed 2day was like in PTR the shadow embrace buff gets canceled of if there are 2 warlocks in the raid. I did raid with the other affliction lock few times and as I can remember always saw the debuff on my dot timer. But 2day I specifically tested this with him and only one of us was able to have the shadow embrace debuff. Did this happen after yesterday patch ? or Did I miss something ?