Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread - Page 62

Odiuz · 04/20/09, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sensitoke

The new Afflic spec is hands down the highest DPS Warlock spec IMO. I have tinkered with all the new specs, and afflic 53/0/18, is the highest and most consistant DPS. Has worked great on the first 4 bosses in Ulduar 25. I was 0/40/31 for the first 2 days in Ulduar. DPS was low because of all the moving around. Allfic is much better for that. Overall I did about 400-600 DPS more with Afflic spec.

I've saw a lot of people saying 0/40/31 is better to fights where you need to move a lot, but i disagree in that, because affliction has the best performance using DoTs, and DoTs is the best way to do damage in moviment.

LazyOne · 04/20/09, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sensitoke

I dont see this as a bad thing, i think it increases dps to not have the extra DOT to keep up with. UA does alot of dps now wtih crits. I always thought immo was a waste because it was the only fire dmg, everything else was shadow and only shadow spell were buffed with talent points. So taking out immo from the rotation allows more SB's to be spammed.

I agree, but I'm just annoyed with the way Blizzard went about it. I felt that the change Blizzard made to Molten Core was enough of a message to affliction to drop Immolate from the rotation, but instead they felt it necessary to smash it over our heads with making UA and Immo mutually exclusive. Rotations are definitely much simpler now and my SB filler has jumped to almost 40% of my overall damage along with getting more DSX tics in. It's also nice to see that occasional 1k+ heal from a Corruption crit.

Mostly, I wanted make sure the word was out there that this "same exclusive category" that UA and Immo are sharing favors Immo over UA.

Snidelyw · 04/20/09, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by Namnalia

Updated most of the math part (as well as some articles in the first post), including the spell by spell computation, dps computation and stat values. Result of stat values looks like this:

10 hit rating = 10.70 dps -> 15.62 dps
10 spell power = 12.87 dps -> 13.84 dps
10 haste rating = 5.51 dps -> 7.64 dps
10 crit rating = 4.60 dps -> 6.40 dps
10 spirit = 4.25 dps -> 4.57 dps
10 int = 1.39 dps -> 1.94 dps

and is not far away from what 3.08 gave us. I'll wait some time now for feedback, try to find remaining errors myself and so on, and proceed to the item comparison afterwards.

From the Simulcraft thread, the scaling factors for affliction are:
Warlock_T8_53_00_18 intellect=0.27 spirit=0.78 spell_power=1.55 crit_rating=0.78 haste_rating=0.98
Is the discrepancy because of the gear selection? The most notable difference is between spirit and crit. From the Simulcraft they are just about equal, but if you have the 3% human racial spirit bonus, spirit should pull ahead. Your numbers show spirit to be worth significantly less than crit.

Cheytac · 04/20/09, 2:40 PM

Hello..this is my first post on EJ and i just wanna say thanks first to the community, having been destro through out all of BC, my affliction knowledge was worthless until reading up on this site. I love the new Affl., with a much simpler rotation, and UA doing way more dmg per duration than immolate, my dps is up around 3.1-3.2k unbuffed on heroic dummy, so thanks again. My reason for this post is to stress the use of CoE during boss encounters. I practiced for about 1.5 days on my new rotation with and without CoE and my personal dps veried so little, only down to about 3-3.1k. Since CoA does roughly about 10% of my damage they just about equaled out. After seeing only a slight change in my dps, we took ten of our top geared raiders(with as many buffs as possible) to simulate a boss fight. Each run on the dummy was 3 mins long, getting a baseline by having everyone do their normal rotations and such, and then moving to attempts where we changed only debuffs on the Target. We added CoE, CoW, and had one of our rogues work his armor pen debuff into the rotation. Conclusion after about 10+ runs on the dummy = Debuffs FTW...our total raid dps increased roughly 8-12%...my feeling on this, is that my dps can suffer some for the good of the raid. Once again TY to everyone here for all the help and good luck in Ulduar!! Sorry i didnt mean to quote if it shows up like that.

Evyle · 04/20/09, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Snidelyw

From the Simulcraft thread, the scaling factors for affliction are:
Warlock_T8_53_00_18 intellect=0.27 spirit=0.78 spell_power=1.55 crit_rating=0.78 haste_rating=0.98
Is the discrepancy because of the gear selection? The most notable difference is between spirit and crit. From the Simulcraft they are just about equal, but if you have the 3% human racial spirit bonus, spirit should pull ahead. Your numbers show spirit to be worth significantly less than crit.

I think the big difference is glyph choice. If you use the life tap glyph (and you should as its the top glyph for every lock spec on the simcraft page) spirit gains a lot. For affliction locks it seems we go hit,spell,haste, crit/spirit being equal, then int. Though the simcraft thread does not list the weight for hit I would still put it at top.

As for DPS in Uldar I have stayed with the 53/1/17 spec (the one point into a constant pet heal is well worth it as they account from 7-13% of your dps). Most fights I choose the succy as she just plain puts out more damage then the imp. Over multiple fights she has done from 10-13% of my damage vs the 7-8% the imp would do. Many of the "melee has to run out" aoe type damages she can stay in without problem. The fights where I have to change to imp are the single target ground glyphs that do a set amount of damage. As your succy can often be obscured for her standing she could end up standing on a glyph and dying.

Another advantage that affliction has over the 0/41/30 spec is the self healing from corruption and the heal on demand from a better ticking drain life. Maybe its just the "learning the fight" extra damage the raid is taking that has several of our normally top dps dead. But, I do like to be alive to keep dotting so for next few weeks I will keep my siphon life corruption.

So far on the heavy movement fights afflction has done well for me. While you move your corruption, UA and COA are still ticking. Even though they are only 50-60% of your dps its more than other people are getting for the most part from there instant cast nukes. Just get in the midset of when you have to move use your lifetap to recharge.

Oh and one more bit of advice. Find a way to track your life tap glyph timer. Try to maintain it just like any other dot as those 200 or so more spell damage really helps.

Evyle · 04/20/09, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cheytac

Hello..this is my first post on EJ and i just wanna say thanks first to the community, having been destro through out all of BC, my affliction knowledge was worthless until reading up on this site. I love the new Affl., with a much simpler rotation, and UA doing way more dmg per duration than immolate, my dps is up around 3.1-3.2k unbuffed on heroic dummy, so thanks again. My reason for this post is to stress the use of CoE during boss encounters. I practiced for about 1.5 days on my new rotation with and without CoE and my personal dps veried so little, only down to about 3-3.1k. Since CoA does roughly about 10% of my damage they just about equaled out. After seeing only a slight change in my dps, we took ten of our top geared raiders(with as many buffs as possible) to simulate a boss fight. Each run on the dummy was 3 mins long, getting a baseline by having everyone do their normal rotations and such, and then moving to attempts where we changed only debuffs on the Target. We added CoE, CoW, and had one of our rogues work his armor pen debuff into the rotation. Conclusion after about 10+ runs on the dummy = Debuffs FTW...our total raid dps increased roughly 8-12%...my feeling on this, is that my dps can suffer some for the good of the raid. Once again TY to everyone here for all the help and good luck in Ulduar!! Sorry i didnt mean to quote if it shows up like that.

Ok for the COE vs COA choice here is something to think about. For that boss your COA did 10% of your damage over 5 global cooldwons worth of casting. If instead you do 1 COE all of your damage goes up by 13% and you gain 5 global cooldowns in which to cast 2 more shadow bolts. So for any longer type fight where there is a focus target for damage go with a 13% spell damage debuff. Next lets look at your sources and cost of putting up the 13% spell damage buff. Unholy DK's with ebon plage put it up automaticly on targets they disease (best option as they tend to put it on all targets in there aoe area). Balance druids get it free on the target they are blasting (not as good for aoe but still at no dps loss to the druid). Locks loose about 7-10% personal dps but gain 13% or so dps (so you only get 3-6% more net dps if you have to cast it).

Look over your raid, see which toons bring what wanted buffs. I would also find out which bufss do and which buffs do not stack with each other. Use this to help there and see which buffs are in the same category (as you only get the best one there). MMO-Champion RaidComp

Talimar · 04/20/09, 7:36 PM

Originally Posted by Aeji

Haunt will properly recalculate Corruption's damage when a change to your spellpower occurs, but not when you receive a flat % damage increase buff - e.g., Thaddius, Malygos.

This should probably be mentioned on the front page if it's still the case, along with death's embrace.

Sumie · 04/21/09, 2:43 AM

hi,
which meta gem should I choose? spellpower+less threat/int or crit rating + inc. crit dmg? I'm not sure coz corruption and UA are able to crit now.

Sorry for my bad English.

With the amount of movement required in nearly all Ulduar encounters, you'd probably be best off using spellpower + minor run speed, allowing you to use Icewalker for boots.

• Zakalwe · 04/21/09, 2:56 AM

Originally Posted by Sumie

With the amount of movement required in nearly all Ulduar encounters, you'd probably be best off using spellpower + minor run speed, allowing you to use Icewalker for boots.

No no no. First of all, unholy aura provides run speed. But even if you don't usually run with an unholy death knight, it's clearly better to get run speed from the boot enchant. The increased crit damage from the other meta gem is worth a lot more than 12 hit/crit.

gia · 04/21/09, 3:14 AM

Unholy Aura no longer exists and has been replaced by Improved Unholy Presence - Spell - World of Warcraft

Kazar · 04/21/09, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by LazyOne

Regarding this change, Immolate DoT takes precedence over Unstable Affliction DoT no matter what.

I've cast Immolate first for the direct damage portion and then attempted to overwrite the DoT with Unstable Affliction, but the Unstable Affliction DoT never applied (as noted by Kazar) and continued with the Immolate DoT ticks. I also switched it around to cast Unstable Affliction first followed by an Immolate and the Immolate DoT overwrote the Unstable Affliction DoT. So as affliction we end up dropping Immolate for our rotation. Fun how Blizzard is forcing us to simplify our rotation

Ye, that was confusing me the whole raid day yesterday, though Kamamaji says that aff is better now than before.

Realy can´t see how it should be that, before patch I could easily do 6.5 k dps on alot of bosses in Naxx, now I feel it hard to get 5 k

Though when what is said I haven´t got new glyph´s yet since there is none on my server atm.

Still think it´s a bit sad they are "removing" 2 dots from rotation, is so easy to do a rota now, and almost everyone can do the that rota.

There was more challange ind the old one

Sumie · 04/21/09, 3:09 PM

No no no. First of all, unholy aura provides run speed. But even if you don't usually run with an unholy death knight, it's clearly better to get run speed from the boot enchant. The increased crit damage from the other meta gem is worth a lot more than 12 hit/crit.
So if I have a DK unholy, the best meta gem you are talking is the 21 crit + 3% increased crit dmg? Or the spell power ones for affliction is better?

There is no more unholy aura in 3.1, people. It's been changed to a self-only buff for the DK. No more raid-wide 15% movement speed, and with all the movement required in Ulduar, you'd most definitely want minor run speed from either meta or boots.

Haven't done the math, but if someone wishes to, it'd be appreciated. The comparison would be:

25 spellpower, 12 hit, 12 crit
vs.
21 crit, 3% crit dmg

Also, for those that aren't a JC, the spellpower/runspeed meta requires at least 1 blue, and the chaotic skyflare requires 2 blue, which would also affect the comparison, but probably no more than a few spellpower. Spellpower/spirit gems have increased in value with the lifetap glyph.

Katathia · 04/23/09, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sumie

Haven't done the math, but if someone wishes to, it'd be appreciated. The comparison would be:

25 spellpower, 12 hit, 12 crit
vs.
21 crit, 3% crit dmg

From Namnalia's Guide:

-Chaotic Skyflare Diamond: This increases the crit multipliers of Haunt, Shadow Bolt, Unstable Affliction and Corruption from 150% / 200% to 153% / 203%. According to my simulation, the effect itself increases the dps by 20.12 / 35.85 dps, easily making it the best Meta Gem.

If I'm reading that correctly that dps number is just for the +3% increased crit damage. If you include the +21 crit that would be a total of 49.668.

The 25 spellpower with increased run speed is about 34.3 dps. Using the base stats for someone entering Ulduar and assuming the 12 hit is needed you're looking at another 7.896 dps from crit and 18.996 dps from the hit for a total of 61.192 dps. (ref: Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread)

The +25 spellpower with increased run speed should be the choice for affliction locks but these are general values and will change based on the stats on your gear.

dakalro · 04/23/09, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Katathia

From Namnalia's Guide:

If I'm reading that correctly that dps number is just for the +3% increased crit damage. If you include the +21 crit that would be a total of 49.668.

The 25 spellpower with increased run speed is about 34.3 dps. Using the base stats for someone entering Ulduar and assuming the 12 hit is needed you're looking at another 7.896 dps from crit and 18.996 dps from the hit for a total of 61.192 dps. (ref: Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread)

The +25 spellpower with increased run speed should be the choice for affliction locks but these are general values and will change based on the stats on your gear.

As far as I know and how it's always been, CSD increases crits from 150%/200% to 154.5%/209%. And the calculation should still exist somewhere around this forum. I think it's 150% * 1.03 which gives a crit bonus with meta of 54.5%, double that crit bonus with talent gives 109% crit bonus, so 209% crits.

Katathia · 04/23/09, 1:14 PM

That quote I gave is directly from this guide: Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread