• KingSpeedy

Nothing special, Keep everything up, spam SB, don't cut off any casts, don't wait to cast anything, and mix in DS with an SCT Event for when it ticks. Simcraft parses for my gear and spec typically back my numbers up pretty accurately.

There's simply no reason to not hitcap yourself. The crowded length of DoT durations and the Haunt cooldown make things tricky enough without the money wrench of a failed cast thrown in there too. Let's say you cast UA and Immo back to back, and an Immolate misses. You immediately recast. Now you've got 1.5sec of dead space sitting between your UA and Immo. So you end up either clipping Immo to cast it earlier (which might not even work according to the Bug Thread), or you let UA fall off and wait for Immo to come back around again. And if it happens sub-25% when you're trying to mix DS in as well, it will only complicate things further. Consider too fights like Sarth+Drakes where precise movement is essential or squeezing in one more cast in that spark patch before the Malygos Vortex. Patchwerk is fun to measure on, but it's more a test-track for the real-world roads that are the other encounters.

 

Melbuframa

I use SB>Haunt>UA>Immo>Corr>CoA>SL, last Patch SB was 30% of my DPS on a 3 min fight where I did ~5600 DPS.

I assume the +/- 5% has a lot to do with RNG on Nightfall/Glyph Procs as well as fight length.

 

rutiene

Short fights tend to favor SB since the long ramp up time of DoTs gets neutralized by their high DPCT over time.

And honestly, I'm ok with a little more complexity if it means increasing my DPS. That doesn't mean I'm not choosing hit gear so I can drop 3 points from Suppression, but only that while I'm stacking hit to hitcap my DoTs, I'm not going to talent into Cataclysm when those points would be spent better elsewhere.

 

Damphair

I am still learning, too, but several people prefer to open with Sbolt -> haunt to get 2 stacks of Demonic Embrace up before the first true DoT. I read someone posting (sorry forgot his name) that UA doesn't tick immediately, so he opens Sbolt -> UA -> Haunt so that Haunt lands when the UA starts to tick.

 

Cigaras

ehm, more on Cataclysm vs Molten Core - I will never go bellow hit cap and I will never miss a Shadow Bolt, the problem is that increasing hit rating by gear I loose some spell power, to be more precise 1 point in Molten Core costs me 30,875 spell power, that is about 35dps, on my last patchwerk fight my Immolate done about 358dps (86000 dmg over 4min), if I would have 75% Molten Core up time (I guess that would be putting 3points there), that would be (86000 + 86000 * 0,1 * 0,75) = 92450 dmg over 4min = 385dps, thats 27dps more compared to 3*35 = 105 if I would have 3/3 Cataclysm over Molten Core. Even if Molten Core would stay there 100% of time, that would be 395dps, so the conclusion would be that 1/3 Cataclysm is worth more than 3/3 Molten Core for an affliction warlock or am I wrong?

P.S. lets do some more maths: to Molten Core become more viable than Cataclysm we need it to increase dps by 105, so that would need Immo to do over 1050dps, that would be 63000 per minute or 15750 per cast? That is 3 times greater than mentioned in the first post.

Update: I'm considering taking Improved Imp or Demonic Power (or maybe both) over Cataclysm etc., because my Imp does about 350dps and Improved Imp would boost that by 30% ant that is exactly 105 but it will increase with gear (I'm still wearing t5 shoulders ) and With Demonic Power per 10sec instead of 4 firebolts he would shoot 5 of them, average hit 875, so 875*4/10 = 350 vs 875*5/10= 437,5, that is 87,5 dps for two talent points vs 70 if putting two points in Cataclysm, However in some fights like Saphiron imp wont be able to dps and that will be the loss of almost 300 dps, mhm, I think I can live with that, int he worst case I still have my t5 2set bonus

 

rutiene

I'm sorry but I didn't understand your math at all. 30,875 spell power? I don't even think you have that much spell power to lose. Either way, I woke up this morning realizing that I did the calculation for MC increase in damage wrong. So I re-did it, and it came out that (3/3) Cataclysm is better than (2/3) MC. But point by point, MC is higher DPS than Cataclysm.

So, the point I'm trying to make is that hit capping your destruction spells with Cata, when your affliction spell are hit capped by Suppression, by taking points in Cataclysm over MC is less DPS overall for you. That means that there's no change in your gearing, since gemming for hit has been shown to be less DPS. And going over hit cap in affliction is also a waste in talent points. (aka. if you hitcap yourself with gems in affliction, then those 3 points in Suppression should be going to some other DPS increasing talents which would make these calculations more complicated than necessary.)

So we're doing a pure talent to talent comparison.

Let's take my WWS report from Patchwerks where I was hitcapped with Affliction but had a 97% hitrate with Destruction: Wow Web Stats

DPS Lost
I had a 2.1% miss rate with Shadowbolt (or 1 missed hit) and 6.7% miss rate with Immolate (or 1 missed hit). On average my Shadowbolt will hit for:

Average hit * (1-crit rate) + Average crit * crit rate = 4541*.62 + 9186*.36 = 6122.38

Assuming that when I miss Immolate, I'm missing 1.5s of filler. Therefore, total damage lost is:

6122.38 [lost SB] + 6122.38*(1.5/2.5) [lost filler time] = 9795.808 damage or 9795.808 damage/3min 57s = 41.33 dps or 13.77dps per point

DPS Gained
Next, let's look at the DPS gained via MC. By going into the log and filtering it to see my MC refreshes (since they don't count as buff gained in the buff tab), I can calculate my MC uptime: Wow Web Stats)

It shows me that MC was down between:
02:08'16.750->02:08'35.218 = 18.468s
02:09'36.437->02:09'42.297 = 4.86s
02:09'58.453->02:10'08.640 = 10.187s
02:10'18.640->02:10'38.234 = 19.594
02:10'52.281->02:10'59.484 = 7.203s

Death occured less than 10s after the last refresh.

Total MC-down time= 60.312s
Total MC-up time = 237s-60.312s = 176.688 OR 176.688/237 = 74.55% up time

So we're going to simplify this and make the assumption that this up time will give us 75% of all direct damage with MC and 75% of all DoT ticks with MC (so MC is distrubuted evenly with all DoT ticks and Direct Damage hits and criticals.)

So, let x = the total damage of Immolate without MC.

x*1.1*.7455 + x*(1-.7455) = 112855
.82005*x + .2545*x = 112855
1.07455*x = 112855
x = 105025.35

Therefore, total damage increase by MC is:

.1*.7455*105025.35 = 7829 OR 7829/237 = 33.03 dps or 16.515dps per point

Now, the problem with this is the fact that the 3rd point of MC would at most cap out MC uptime (so it would do less than the previous two points.)

So lets assume that we have 100% MC uptime with 3/3, then the MC damage increase would be:
105025.35 (x) * .1 = 10502.535 or 44dps or 14.77dps per point on average.

Therefore, 1 point in MC is 1dps more than 1 point in Cataclysm. (A trivial difference really.)

Now I have a question. I take 2/3 MC because that's all my spec allows for, since I take 2/3 Eradication. Is the 2nd Eradication point more DPS than the 3rd point of MC?

 

Mindaika

[quote=rutiene;1022290]I'm sorry but I didn't understand your math at all. 30,875 spell power? I don't even think you have that much spell power to lose. Either way, I woke up this morning realizing that I did the calculation for MC increase in damage wrong. So I re-did it, and it came out that (3/3) Cataclysm is better than (2/3) MC. But point by point, MC is higher DPS than Cataclysm.
/QUOTE]

It's a European custom: 30,785 == 30.785

But yeah, I read that as "30 thousand SP" too at first glance.

 

Emolate

Yes. At least it has been every time I've run Simulation Craft and the spreadsheet with my data.

17:10 <Darkside> I love you guys
17:10 <Darkside> so much
17:11 <Bryne|work> take it easy there rock hudson

 

Nnayr

Not sure if it's been discussed but why is pandemic only triggering 1 damage on the heroic test dummies?

 

DiamondTear

Maybe the bug thread would be a better place to discuss that.

On metagems, I think it would be worth mentioning that [Ember Skyflare Diamond] requires 3 red gems, while the other spelldmg gems have worse requirements. Using this gem will give you the most freedom to get the best regular gems. You could also mention that [Purified Twilight Opal] isn't in the game yet.

 

rutiene

If you look at your combat log, technically you're only doing 1 damage per hit to the target dummy no matter what spell/skill you use. Since pandemic does 100% of the tick it procs off of, it only does 1 damage as well.

 

Jarawolf

Hi all,

I have made a spreadsheet that can calculate dot uptime, cast uptime and dpcs from a WWS report.

- dot Uptime: Percentage of time a DoT is ticking
- cast uptime: Percentage of time spent casting
- dpcs: Damage per second you use to cast a spell

This is how to use the spreadsheet:

- First: get a google account - otherwise you can't use it.
- Second: Use Firefox - or the copy-paste part won't work properly.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...wNiXAg&newcopy

1. Find a boss fight in WWS
2. Click on a warlock - so you new see one warlocks performance in a single bossfight.
3. Copy the entire page (CTRL-A - CTRL-C)
4. Paste it on the first sheet of the spreadsheet called "WWS paste"
5. Go to the "Result" page to see the results of the calculation.
(6. Consider modifying sheet 2 "Character info" to match your character.)

On the "Results" sheet you see the cast uptime, the dot uptime for each DOT plus a DPCS calculation (damage per cast second) for each DOT.

I also calculate the DPS based on cast seconds and fight duration. Your true dps is guaranteed to be somewhere between these two.

The spreadsheet is pretty accurate - but not 100%.
- Instant SB's still count as 2.5sec cast time
- Any AoE will destroy the cast uptime calculation.
- If you have Haunt (configured on sheet 2) Corruption is assumed to be cast once only.
- Your haste is considered - if you enter it on Sheet 2

Feedback appreciated.

/jara

 

turturin

To add to this, don't report this behavior as a bug. Blizzard has said that target dummies are "working as intended", so you can expect this behavior to remain. Sorry I don't have a an actual blue post to quote, its been a while (iirc they addressed this on the PTR forum in advance of the WoTLK launch).

 

Alithia

Hi guys,

don't want to bother you with this question, but what would be your dreamgear for the 55/0/16 "1 hit spec".

I still cannot decide on my "dreamgear", every day I could change little thing.

Where do you get your hit from? Dying curse, Malygos-10 robe, Gothik-10-ring?

I know, this seems like a lazy question, but the devil is in the detail and help will be appreciated a lot.

 

imtsensational

Dream Gear is...a dream :P But, there are tools to help you choose upgrades as you work toward your ideal set.

There is a program called Rawr that can help you play dress-up. It's what I use to look at how my stats change with upgrades. link: Rawr The warlock module is not complete yet, but it helps me hone in on a gear combo that benefits me most.

 

Cohren

I don't think that post you linked is accurate anymore. I think the general consensus is leaning towards 2 pieces of T7 and the rest filled in with the best in slot off set pieces.

 

imtsensational

How did I miss that discussion?! Time to back-track...

 

Cohren

It's on this topic, Value of 4pT7

 

DiamondTear

I'm not sure whether 4pc is included in the perfect set, but I don't think that thread came to a conclusion.

I consider "dream gear" lists to be pointless anyway, only important question is "what can I get for the fight my guild is currently wiping on?".

 

turturin

Best in slot gear lists don't really matter until we reach the top level of gear. It's more interesting imo to discuss the pieces of gear that "seem OP for T7" and we might expect to last well beyond the current tier.

Taken from this view, I'm only really expecting the 25-man trinkets and the ilevel 226 cape from Sarth (with 2 or more drakes) to serve in that capacity. The turning tide off heroic KT may also last well into T8.

I guess my point is I'm not really worried about absolute best in slot for any of the armor slots...my goal being to find a well-itemized ilvl 200 piece or pretty much any ilvl 213 piece and be done with it. Where I'm really trying to be selective are the trinket and weapon slots.

 

Sinstrad

I have been reading through this post as well as a few others in the WoW forums, I have found this to be a much better source of information. Any way I have a few questions relating to affliction specs.

Currently I am setup for 56/0/15 however it would seem from what I have read 53/0/18 that a better choice would be choice, considering I pickup MC and one more point in ISB. I do loose dark pact which I use for quick mana boosts during raid, and two points from Eradication which seems like a talent that would be great to have maxed out.

Just looking for some thoughts, I know there is no perfect answer.

 

Blacksen

I would really consider running with 55/0/16 . I've been running with it for quite some time. I've also gone above the hit cap a bit, so I dropped a point out of Cataclysm and moved it to Improved Shadow Bolt.

I would NOT drop Eradication. It only procs off corruption, and it doesn't proc all the time. I really love the talent and can't live without it. Gets down to 1.2s Shadowbolt casts when it procs. And I really just can't lose it.

Dark pact really is terrible. With the changes to spirit, lifetap will give you mana back faster.

WWS with this spec: Wow Web Stats

Progression is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

Blacksen

I also want to just give some general advice on warlock DoT's and such, and a good way to view them, since a lot of people have trouble understanding the concept of clipping DoT's.


Another way of looking at Damage-Over-Time Spells...
Direct Damage with a cooldown


Instead of viewing our damage-over-time spells as actually dealing damage-over-time, you should view them as very high damage spells with an "invisible" cooldown. For example, you can view Unstable Affliction as a spell that deals 1.7k dmg every 3 seconds for 18 seconds, or you can view it as a spell that deals 10.2k dmg with an 18 second cooldown. Obviously, these spells are somewhat special: they can't really crit (pandemic is a different story), and the cooldown isn't actually physical. But it's a good idea to think that there IS a cooldown.

Now, Unstable Affliction deals about 10k-ish damage over an 18-second interval. Curse of Agony also deals about 10k-ish damage, over a 24-second interval. Corruption deals about 13k dmg over an 18-second interval. Immolate deals about 9.5k-ish dmg over an 18-second interval. Siphon Life deals about 10k-ish dmg over a 30-second interval. For practical purposes all of these spells have the same cast time. These are just my numbers from Wow Web Stats . Your numbers may vary.

Now, like I said, this "cooldown" doesn't actually exist. However, whenever you cast it BEFORE the cooldown is up, it DECREASES the damage of the cast before it. So, for instance, if I cast Unstable Affliction and then cast it again 16 seconds later, the first Unstable Affliction only ticks 5 times, and the second cast 6 times. The total is 11 ticks over a 34 second period. Had I waited 2 more seconds to recast UA, it would have been 12 ticks over a 36 second period.

This is also where damage-per-cast-time comes in. DPCT is essentially the priority system whenever two spells come into conflict. It's the reason that Shadow Bolt is so rarely cast. However, warlocks who don't like grouping CoA and SL together, or who find UA/Immolate conflicting with CoA or something else like that... You simply cast the spell that has the highest DPCT. That's because it does the most damage at that moment. Again, this is still assuming you're looking at DoT's not as damage-over-time, but as Direct Damage with cooldowns.

So, it's just another interesting way to think about it.

Progression is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

krilz

Totally agree on everything here. If you get to decide between for example whether to recast UA or SL first, UA should go first as an example.
One thing you missed: Haunt takes priority over anything. Not only does it refresh your Corruption but it also adds the 20% debuff AND deals damage. That's not to say you should cast it as often as you can because it's DPCT on it's own is still horrible but you should keep the debuff up at all times as your number one priority (and by keeping the debuff up at all times, you subsequently keep Corruption up all the time).

 

Blacksen

Haunt should NOT take priority over everything... Haunt has an 8 second cooldown and a 12 second buff time. I usually aim for casting an extra shadow bolt OR another DoT before casting Haunt.

Remember that letting Haunt fall off for 1-2 seconds will miss, at most, 1-2 DoT ticks getting 20% more damage. Worst case, every DoT ticks once, but that's still only about 1.2k dmg missed. Usually re-applying a DoT is more worth it.

Anyways, I generally try to cast one more spell whenever I see Haunt come off cooldown. Aiming to cast Haunt once ever 10 seconds is highly advisable, since Shadowbolt technically has a higher DPCT than Haunt.

Progression is a marathon, not a sprint.