Emy

The Egg doesn't proc from Fel Armor, however, it does proc from Lifetap. The problem with the triggering the effect is that not each Lifetap triggers the effect, the proc chance from the trinket prevents this.

 

hbalsack

Some napkin math.

My guild ran A full Naxx excluding Saph and Kel'thuzad. I am currently specced 55/0/16

I used the Sundial and the Egg for the entire run. Sundial procced 70 times and the Egg 12. which is a 17.1% ratio

On Boss fights only the Sundial procced 39 times and the Egg 7 times, which is an 18% ratio

I am assuming that the Sundial procs every 60 seconds (45 sec internal coold down + 15 secs to get the procc off of a spell) which is an average 98 spell damage buff.

The Egg would add 505*10/60 = 84 haste if it procced as much as the Sundial but it only procced 18% as much so a static increase of 15 haste from the Egg could be assumed.

So when comparing trinkets

The Egg of Mortal Essence = 98 spell power + 15 haste
Sundial of the Exiled = 84 crit rating + 98 spell power

Now, I know that one run does not make a statistical proof. Can others please let me know what the ratio of proccs are from the sundial to the egg are, from their experience. As long as it is close to 20% I think the above numbers for comparison purposes are valid.

 

Sepulchura

I agree with those who feel IotDS is a good choice for most anyone, testing done on target dummy being my basis.

One thing that bears mention is a very simple point between let's say Dying Curse* and Extract of Necromantic Power: are you hit capped? Prior to getting geared up from 25Naxx keeping myself DOWN to hit cap was a problem, but now with some of the best 25Naxx gear, I'm wishing I had Dying Curse to swap out for boss fights (instead of Necromantic Power). Example, say I run around 315 hit or so with Extract of NP, I would love to have Dying Curse for the boss fight in heroic raids where mob level hits the 83. Players sometimes focus on raiding hit capped without realizing that the hit cap is specifically ftw on the boss fight but redundantly overpowered at level 83 mob cap otherwise. An excellent article on hit rating for warlocks can be found at

What's the Hit cap Mr. Wolf? - The Warlocks Den Forums

This article linked above explains hit cap quite thoroughly for anyone what I'm talking about and why I would (for my build, or I should say most specifically for my current gear) only use Dying Curse on a raid boss fight.

And to those who mentioned spamming Detect Inv or Underwater breathing (or whatever to get up to ten ticks) to ramp Illustration up: I wish it worked on me! I loved the idea and tried it, but perhaps blizzard patched this? It does not activate my IotDS at all. Life tap does.

Kudos regarding macro'ing lifebloom with lifetap: How many of us herbalists are in the habit of "strategically" using lifebloom with 100% consistency? Tying it together with Life Tap (a common spell for us mana pigs) is brilliant, and you can always leave Lifebloom on your action bar anyway in case you need to use it prior to tapping. The point on this is Lifebloom is often underused by those of us who are not as alert or precise in using our resources. Lifebloom doesn't do that much so it's a pain to have to think of it, but a shame to not take the free health, making your tip of macro'ing it to LifeTap a very useful bit of advice. Having said that, I am macro challenged, what is the macro? I tried /cast life tap then next line /use lifebloom but it is not doing it.

Theoretically one could (eventually) use Dying Curse and have such a high hit rating that one could drop points in Cataclysm or Suppression. But that would beg the question: does the talent point(s) gained give you more DPS than the trinket you are NOT gearing due to needing to equip Dying Curse (or Mark of the War Prisoner). This last paragraph is probably a premature question at this stage with only Malygos and Sartharion content for drops, but is something to keep in mind as we move well into Tier 8. I can't see equipping say Dying Curse and Mark of the War Prisoner together being viable just to free up three talent points (correct me if I'm wrong if someone has found it viable to not talent cata/supp due to huge hit rating gear).

*Mark of the War Prisoner, a blue trinket from Violet Hold, is not shabby at all as a Hit rating trinket too until the RNG gods grant you your Dying Curse

 

oresteez

You make some good points, but you should make sure you go back and read this entire thread. It's been tested quite extensively that Dying Curse has no competition as the 2nd best trinket for a DPS caster. If using Dying Curse will give you enough hit to move points out of cata/supp, then you should do it 9 times out of 10.

 

Sepulchura

indeed (re: Dying Curse), I have studied this thead closely. I am stating I would without doubt go for Dying Curse as a absolutely must trinket to get (if I was not clear, then let me make that clear here). But if you are already running hit capped for what you are fighting at the moment, you are effectively wasting the hit rating aspect of the trinket. By using Extract instead in situations where the hit rating on Dying Curse is redundant, you are effectively adding 95 crit and it has a good damage proc (which is particularly great for afflocks since it procs on periodic damage) so you aren't losing there as compared to Dying Curse. Those two factors resulted in more DPS where we tested over two different 25Naxx runs (the warlock in my guild who has Dying curse tested it) than if you use Dying Curse instead if you are already hit capped for what you are fighting without equipping Dying Curse. What he found was the periodical damage that proc'd off Extract for some reason was a bit under what he got off Dying Curse (possibly due to his DOT up time needing work?) but he critted 4.5% more often and this pushed his DPS overall (with otherwise same gear and same spell rotations) higher. And note: he tested Dying Curse in the second run (after he equipped a better piece of gear from the prior run) and still had a drop in DPS.

This all may be quite specific to the destro build that depends on crits to some degree, I admit that. I am far more familiar with running destro or hybrid destro.

It is possible that Extract and IotDS together can result in more DPS if you are already hit capped against the fight you are getting into without equipping Dying Curse. Based on testing I have done and the other warlock in my guild has done, I would aspire toward having all three and using Dying Curse to achieve hit cap as needed, not categorically. And certainly, for an awful lot of us, this is going to make Dying Curse the absolute bomb, no doubt and the point on that is well taken and sound advice. For a warlock who really needs to boost their hit rating, absolutely no question I would say hands-down Dying Curse is right there at the top, along with IotDS. And I dont forsee Dying Curse falling off the "must have" wish list of most of us for some time yet. I'm just seeing a lot of leaning toward IotDS and Dying Curse "is the answer" on this thread and while the arguments in favor of that are excellent, I only wanted to point out that there are scenarios where Extract of Necromantic is still of great benefit, based on two factors: what is your hit rating without dying curse and what is the level of the mob you are about to punch face on. Personally, I'm going to keep hoping for Dying Curse to drop so I have all three to use. Contest? Since I'll probably gear Dying Curse where it really counts, then I bow to you on saying the overall winners are IotDS and Dying Curse, IMHO. I guess my remaining question is: is 95 crit really that "meh"? Seems to me since both Dying and Extract have a damage proc, that forms the base of my idea that extract can be more useful (as covered).

 

Evidicus

I understand your logic about Dying Curse in regards to gearing for a hit cap versus raid bosses. If all things were equal, you wouldn't need the same amount of hit for say, heroic instances. The piece I think you're missing in a scenario like this when you say that "you are effectively wasting the hit rating aspect of the trinket" is that you aren't guaranteed to have the same level of raid buffs in non-25 man settings.

I currently run 0/41/30 and I gear for 11% hit, including Dying Curse. I add 3% in talents in the Destro tree, and I have a shadow priest every raid to make up the other 3%. That handles my cap for the raid. Post-raid when I go into a heroic, having Dying Curse still equipped helps offset the fact that I may have lost that shadow priest buff.

I suppose you could make an arguement for Extract for raid trash, but I personally don't spend DKP to boost my trash DPS. That and I don't think I could justify taking a trinket for a few vanity numbers over someone else who may want it for their main DPS trinket.

 

nuibank

You should be sacrificing hit on other gear (within reason obviously, dont drop ilvl 213 gear for lvl 78 greens) in order to have the curse equipped all the time because it is that much better than the other trinkets.

Assuming you have the choice on gear to accomodate that.

 

Sepulchura

Very good point and this is the grain of salt my posts should be taken with. You are all making me a believer. Now if I can just get the thing to drop.

 

kaib

Pretty sure every caster dps class wants IotDS and Dying Curse as their trinkets, anything else is just subpar or having wrong/not optimal gear in other slots. That goes from Shadow Priests and Affliction Warlocks to the more crit based specs like owls, elemental shamans and mages. You just always want those two in a perfect world.

 

Xera81

I think the point is that if you are over hit capped I would keep the DC for the proc alone and regear elsewhere, drop things like Faerlinas Madeness in favor for Grobs Hat etc. This will net you a bigger DPS increase.
I'm still waitingfor IotDS to go with my DC.. it dropped the other day, but my lock buddy did a total DKP dump on it and blew my considerable bid out of the water :P (This does of course mean he's given me a clear run at the Turning Tide and the Hood of Rationality ... *muhahahah* ahem)

 

rickycal78

I was just curious, I currently use the Illustration and Mark of the War prisoner (never seem to get dying curse to drop). I also have in my bank the Embrace trinket. If you armory my toon you'll see I have a bit of hit overload due to whats dropped for me and the fact that my guilds spriest doesn't raid regularly, so I've stacked hit gear. Given that situation, if I were to either change guilds or we recruit an spriest that raids regularly, would it be better for me to drop the Mark and go with the Embrace, or go with a different trinket?

 

turturin

Embrace is really good, 3rd best trinket available by most estimations. If you don't have hit cap concerns, or were these to shift due to raid comp changing, replacing MotWP with Embrace would be a great move.

 

Inch

hi all, i'm 0/41/30 specced with felguard, and i'm currently using Sundial + Dying Curse; in the bank i have also the Extract, and Embrace of the spider.

Is it worth to change the Dying Curse with the Embrace of the spider, or the Extract?

 

Yeda

If you can maintain hitcap without Dying Curse i would say that Embrace would be better..

 

Weerea

I find the embrace of the spider to be a little better than the sundial as well - Someone else did the math, but given that haste scales better than crit for pretty much every warlock spec according to the spreadsheet I'm pretty sure thats right. Its a pretty minor difference overall though, but I do like that the spellpower portion of the sider is a constant instead of a proc.

 

LazyOne

Here are some numbers from a recent Naxx clear with myself and one other as the only warlocks in the raid.
I used Egg+Dying Curse while he used Sundial+Dying Curse.

Total Run:
Me: Egg 19 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Egg at 15% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 91 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Sundial at 73% of Dying Curse procs)

Bosses Only:
Me: Egg 8 procs / Dying Curse 63 procs (Egg at 13% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 59 procs / Dying Curse 62 procs (Sundial at 95% of Dying Curse procs)

On a side note, I browsed the log file trying to figure out what heals the Egg might be procing from and think I may be interpreting this incorrectly. I located the Essence of Life procs and then went up to through the log find the first heal effect on myself. I also set the filter to only show entries where I was the source and/or target.

I found lines like
20:10'07.688 Shaherazad gains 62 health from Shaherazad Blood Aura. (62 Overheal)
21:28'51.398 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1240. (1240 Overheal)
as the healing that took place just before the proc.

Weirdest of all was this sequence
20:48'35.883 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1011.
20:48'36.409 Shaherazad gains Molten Core.
20:51'02.866 Shaherazad gains Drink.
20:51'12.890 Shaherazad gains Well Fed.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Dying Curse.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Essence of Life.

The gap from :48 to :51 was me running back after dying and then sitting to eat conjured food before jumping back into the trash carnage again. I refuse to believe that a Siphon Life from that long ago could set off the Egg proc.

Edit: I think I understand which event procs the Egg now. It looks like the proc is logged prior to the actual heal event taking place in the combatlog. In every case of the Egg procing I was able to locate a heal from Fel Armor within 1 second of the proc.

 

LazyOne

Here are some numbers from a recent full clear of Naxx 25man with myself and one other as the only warlocks in the raid. I used Egg+Dying Curse while he used Sundial+Dying Curse.

Total Run:
Me: Egg 19 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Egg at 15% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 91 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Sundial at 73% of Dying Curse procs)

Bosses Only:
Me: Egg 8 procs / Dying Curse 63 procs (Egg at 13% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 59 procs / Dying Curse 62 procs (Sundial at 95% of Dying Curse procs)

On a side note, I browsed the log file trying to figure out what heals the Egg might be procing from and think I may be interpreting this incorrectly. I located the Essence of Life procs and then went backwards from that point through the log to find the first heal effect on myself. I had the filter set to only show entries where I was the source and/or target.

I found lines like
20:10'07.688 Shaherazad gains 62 health from Shaherazad Blood Aura. (62 Overheal)
21:28'51.398 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1240. (1240 Overheal)
as the healing that took place just before the proc.

Weirdest of all was this sequence
20:48'35.883 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1011.
20:48'36.409 Shaherazad gains Molten Core.
20:51'02.866 Shaherazad gains Drink.
20:51'12.890 Shaherazad gains Well Fed.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Dying Curse.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Essence of Life.

The gap from :48 to :51 was me running back after dying and then sitting to eat before jumping back into the trash carnage again. I refuse to believe that a Siphon Life from that long ago could set off the Egg proc.

Edit: Did some extra reading and found that the trinket procs are logged prior to the event that triggers the proc. I went back through this same combat log and found a heal from Fel Armor within 1 second of each Egg proc so please disregard the grayed out text.

 

Inch

yesterday my connectiong was finally running so i tried Dying + Embrace, and i can tell that was awsome; when the embrace procced i had like 1100 haste, and that was kinda fun.

this evening i'm gonna try Extract + Embrace

PS - Thanks Weerea, i wrote the wrong trinket name, yesterday i was using Dying + Embrace ;-)

 

Weerea

Assuming I read your original post right, don't you have dying curse? Dying + embrace is probably the best trinket combo you have right now - and frees up a lot of hit you must need on other gear without it.

 

Emy

Something new and might be interesting, the Darkmoon Card: Death has been buffed on PTR.



I have not seen this in the patchnotes, I looked at the tooltip out of curiousity and was surprised to find that the damage on the card has been improved.

Old: Darkmoon Card: Death

 

FATALDAMAGE

that's quite a buff... wonder how that works out against the other trinkets now?

 

• Zakalwe

The proc still isn't worth more than 47 DPS, assuming a generous 50 seconds between procs and 35% crit rate:

(2000 * 0.65 + 3000 * 0.35) / 50 = 47

 

parvatiquinta

I have Illustration of the Dragon Soul and I'm very happy with it, but I've noticed it doesn't trigger off Rain of Fire, which makes it more or less useless to me when I'm AoE'ing (the mana and ticks wasted into triggering it off other spells feel like I'm losing more than I'm gaining overall).

I thought it was a bug, but reading earlier in this thread:

... this made me think it may be intentional on Blizzard's part. Underwater Breathing and Detect Invisibility I can totally understand. I'd even go so far as removing Life Tap or Health Funnel (if it still triggers it), frankly.
But Rain of Fire? It is the primary AoE damage spell for a destruction warlock.

I found nothing on this, does anyone know if Illustration not working with Rain of Fire is a bug or intentional (and if the latter, were there any reasons why given)?

 

ilovemrdoe

Life Tap and Health Funnel do still trigger it.

 

Pilnaz

[Dying Curse]

[Sundial of the Exiled]
[Extract of Necromantic Power]

I have to maintain the hit rating so I have no choice but to switch in the Sundial and Extract, I'm a heavy Desto spec and have had better luck on tests with the Extract than the Sundial. I was curious that this is considered a lower tier trinket? Is this just a case of lower based on spec, sundial is better for afflic locks, but not necessarily for Destro locks?