Trinket Discussion - Page 18

Evidicus · 02/09/09, 10:37 PM

I understand your logic about Dying Curse in regards to gearing for a hit cap versus raid bosses. If all things were equal, you wouldn't need the same amount of hit for say, heroic instances. The piece I think you're missing in a scenario like this when you say that "you are effectively wasting the hit rating aspect of the trinket" is that you aren't guaranteed to have the same level of raid buffs in non-25 man settings.

I currently run 0/41/30 and I gear for 11% hit, including Dying Curse. I add 3% in talents in the Destro tree, and I have a shadow priest every raid to make up the other 3%. That handles my cap for the raid. Post-raid when I go into a heroic, having Dying Curse still equipped helps offset the fact that I may have lost that shadow priest buff.

I suppose you could make an arguement for Extract for raid trash, but I personally don't spend DKP to boost my trash DPS. That and I don't think I could justify taking a trinket for a few vanity numbers over someone else who may want it for their main DPS trinket.

nuibank · 02/10/09, 1:20 PM

You should be sacrificing hit on other gear (within reason obviously, dont drop ilvl 213 gear for lvl 78 greens) in order to have the curse equipped all the time because it is that much better than the other trinkets.

Assuming you have the choice on gear to accomodate that.

Sepulchura · 02/10/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Evidicus

I suppose you could make an arguement for Extract for raid trash, but I personally don't spend DKP to boost my trash DPS. That and I don't think I could justify taking a trinket for a few vanity numbers over someone else who may want it for their main DPS trinket.

Very good point and this is the grain of salt my posts should be taken with. You are all making me a believer. Now if I can just get the thing to drop.

kaib · 02/11/09, 5:11 AM

Pretty sure every caster dps class wants IotDS and Dying Curse as their trinkets, anything else is just subpar or having wrong/not optimal gear in other slots. That goes from Shadow Priests and Affliction Warlocks to the more crit based specs like owls, elemental shamans and mages. You just always want those two in a perfect world.

Xera81 · 02/11/09, 11:33 AM

I think the point is that if you are over hit capped I would keep the DC for the proc alone and regear elsewhere, drop things like Faerlinas Madeness in favor for Grobs Hat etc. This will net you a bigger DPS increase.
I'm still waitingfor IotDS to go with my DC.. it dropped the other day, but my lock buddy did a total DKP dump on it and blew my considerable bid out of the water :P (This does of course mean he's given me a clear run at the Turning Tide and the Hood of Rationality ... *muhahahah* ahem)

rickycal78 · 02/11/09, 12:13 PM

I was just curious, I currently use the Illustration and Mark of the War prisoner (never seem to get dying curse to drop). I also have in my bank the Embrace trinket. If you armory my toon you'll see I have a bit of hit overload due to whats dropped for me and the fact that my guilds spriest doesn't raid regularly, so I've stacked hit gear. Given that situation, if I were to either change guilds or we recruit an spriest that raids regularly, would it be better for me to drop the Mark and go with the Embrace, or go with a different trinket?

turturin · 02/11/09, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by rickycal78

I was just curious, I currently use the Illustration and Mark of the War prisoner (never seem to get dying curse to drop). I also have in my bank the Embrace trinket. If you armory my toon you'll see I have a bit of hit overload due to whats dropped for me and the fact that my guilds spriest doesn't raid regularly, so I've stacked hit gear. Given that situation, if I were to either change guilds or we recruit an spriest that raids regularly, would it be better for me to drop the Mark and go with the Embrace, or go with a different trinket?

Embrace is really good, 3rd best trinket available by most estimations. If you don't have hit cap concerns, or were these to shift due to raid comp changing, replacing MotWP with Embrace would be a great move.

Inch · 02/12/09, 5:12 AM

hi all, i'm 0/41/30 specced with felguard, and i'm currently using Sundial + Dying Curse; in the bank i have also the Extract, and Embrace of the spider.

Is it worth to change the Dying Curse with the Embrace of the spider, or the Extract?

Yeda · 02/12/09, 7:14 AM

If you can maintain hitcap without Dying Curse i would say that Embrace would be better..

Weerea · 02/12/09, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Inch

hi all, i'm 0/41/30 specced with felguard, and i'm currently using Sundial + Dying Curse; in the bank i have also the Extract, and Embrace of the spider.

Is it worth to change the Dying Curse with the Embrace of the spider, or the Extract?

I find the embrace of the spider to be a little better than the sundial as well - Someone else did the math, but given that haste scales better than crit for pretty much every warlock spec according to the spreadsheet I'm pretty sure thats right. Its a pretty minor difference overall though, but I do like that the spellpower portion of the sider is a constant instead of a proc.

LazyOne · 02/13/09, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by hbalsack

Some napkin math.

My guild ran A full Naxx excluding Saph and Kel'thuzad. I am currently specced 55/0/16

I used the Sundial and the Egg for the entire run. Sundial procced 70 times and the Egg 12. which is a 17.1% ratio

On Boss fights only the Sundial procced 39 times and the Egg 7 times, which is an 18% ratio

I am assuming that the Sundial procs every 60 seconds (45 sec internal coold down + 15 secs to get the procc off of a spell) which is an average 98 spell damage buff.

The Egg would add 505*10/60 = 84 haste if it procced as much as the Sundial but it only procced 18% as much so a static increase of 15 haste from the Egg could be assumed.

So when comparing trinkets

The Egg of Mortal Essence = 98 spell power + 15 haste
Sundial of the Exiled = 84 crit rating + 98 spell power

Now, I know that one run does not make a statistical proof. Can others please let me know what the ratio of proccs are from the sundial to the egg are, from their experience. As long as it is close to 20% I think the above numbers for comparison purposes are valid.

Here are some numbers from a recent Naxx clear with myself and one other as the only warlocks in the raid.
I used Egg+Dying Curse while he used Sundial+Dying Curse.

Total Run:
Me: Egg 19 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Egg at 15% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 91 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Sundial at 73% of Dying Curse procs)

Bosses Only:
Me: Egg 8 procs / Dying Curse 63 procs (Egg at 13% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 59 procs / Dying Curse 62 procs (Sundial at 95% of Dying Curse procs)

On a side note, I browsed the log file trying to figure out what heals the Egg might be procing from and think I may be interpreting this incorrectly. I located the Essence of Life procs and then went up to through the log find the first heal effect on myself. I also set the filter to only show entries where I was the source and/or target.

I found lines like
20:10'07.688 Shaherazad gains 62 health from Shaherazad Blood Aura. (62 Overheal)
21:28'51.398 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1240. (1240 Overheal)
as the healing that took place just before the proc.

Weirdest of all was this sequence
20:48'35.883 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1011.
20:48'36.409 Shaherazad gains Molten Core.
20:51'02.866 Shaherazad gains Drink.
20:51'12.890 Shaherazad gains Well Fed.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Dying Curse.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Essence of Life.

The gap from :48 to :51 was me running back after dying and then sitting to eat conjured food before jumping back into the trash carnage again. I refuse to believe that a Siphon Life from that long ago could set off the Egg proc.

Edit: I think I understand which event procs the Egg now. It looks like the proc is logged prior to the actual heal event taking place in the combatlog. In every case of the Egg procing I was able to locate a heal from Fel Armor within 1 second of the proc.

LazyOne · 02/13/09, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by hbalsack

Some napkin math.

My guild ran A full Naxx excluding Saph and Kel'thuzad. I am currently specced 55/0/16

I used the Sundial and the Egg for the entire run. Sundial procced 70 times and the Egg 12. which is a 17.1% ratio

On Boss fights only the Sundial procced 39 times and the Egg 7 times, which is an 18% ratio

I am assuming that the Sundial procs every 60 seconds (45 sec internal coold down + 15 secs to get the procc off of a spell) which is an average 98 spell damage buff.

The Egg would add 505*10/60 = 84 haste if it procced as much as the Sundial but it only procced 18% as much so a static increase of 15 haste from the Egg could be assumed.

So when comparing trinkets

The Egg of Mortal Essence = 98 spell power + 15 haste
Sundial of the Exiled = 84 crit rating + 98 spell power

Now, I know that one run does not make a statistical proof. Can others please let me know what the ratio of proccs are from the sundial to the egg are, from their experience. As long as it is close to 20% I think the above numbers for comparison purposes are valid.

Here are some numbers from a recent full clear of Naxx 25man with myself and one other as the only warlocks in the raid. I used Egg+Dying Curse while he used Sundial+Dying Curse.

Total Run:
Me: Egg 19 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Egg at 15% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 91 procs / Dying Curse 125 procs (Sundial at 73% of Dying Curse procs)

Bosses Only:
Me: Egg 8 procs / Dying Curse 63 procs (Egg at 13% of Dying Curse procs)
Him: Sundial 59 procs / Dying Curse 62 procs (Sundial at 95% of Dying Curse procs)

On a side note, I browsed the log file trying to figure out what heals the Egg might be procing from and think I may be interpreting this incorrectly. I located the Essence of Life procs and then went backwards from that point through the log to find the first heal effect on myself. I had the filter set to only show entries where I was the source and/or target.

I found lines like
20:10'07.688 Shaherazad gains 62 health from Shaherazad Blood Aura. (62 Overheal)
21:28'51.398 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1240. (1240 Overheal)
as the healing that took place just before the proc.

Weirdest of all was this sequence
20:48'35.883 Shaherazad Siphon Life heals Shaherazad for 1011.
20:48'36.409 Shaherazad gains Molten Core.
20:51'02.866 Shaherazad gains Drink.
20:51'12.890 Shaherazad gains Well Fed.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Dying Curse.
20:51'30.727 Shaherazad gains Essence of Life.

The gap from :48 to :51 was me running back after dying and then sitting to eat before jumping back into the trash carnage again. I refuse to believe that a Siphon Life from that long ago could set off the Egg proc.

Edit: Did some extra reading and found that the trinket procs are logged prior to the event that triggers the proc. I went back through this same combat log and found a heal from Fel Armor within 1 second of each Egg proc so please disregard the grayed out text.

Inch · 02/17/09, 3:58 AM

Originally Posted by Weerea

I find the embrace of the spider to be a little better than the sundial as well - Someone else did the math, but given that haste scales better than crit for pretty much every warlock spec according to the spreadsheet I'm pretty sure thats right. Its a pretty minor difference overall though, but I do like that the spellpower portion of the sider is a constant instead of a proc.

yesterday my connectiong was finally running so i tried Dying + Embrace, and i can tell that was awsome; when the embrace procced i had like 1100 haste, and that was kinda fun.

this evening i'm gonna try Extract + Embrace

PS - Thanks Weerea, i wrote the wrong trinket name, yesterday i was using Dying + Embrace ;-)

Weerea · 02/17/09, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by Inch

yesterday my connectiong was finally running so i tried Sundial + Embrace, and i can tell that was awsome; when the embrace procced i had like 1100 haste, and that was kinda fun.

this evening i'm gonna try Extract + Embrace

Assuming I read your original post right, don't you have dying curse? Dying + embrace is probably the best trinket combo you have right now - and frees up a lot of hit you must need on other gear without it.

Emy · 02/26/09, 5:22 AM

Something new and might be interesting, the Darkmoon Card: Death has been buffed on PTR.

I have not seen this in the patchnotes, I looked at the tooltip out of curiousity and was surprised to find that the damage on the card has been improved.

Old: Darkmoon Card: Death