I know it stacks... but am I not haste capped whit 500 haste, BL + SoF and backdraft?
2.25/(1.38+((500+432)/3279))*0.7=0.95
Without scale of fates that is:
2.25/(1.38+((500)/3279))*0.7=1.03
So yes, you do haste cap. Roughly half the value away. But the time where bloodlust,backdraft and SoF coincide is so minor that I wouldnt worry about it.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Backdraft lowers the global cooldown as well, so the global cooldown with backdraft up can go down to 0.7 seconds. So backdraft has no effect on the haste cap. The soft haste cap (50% haste before buffs) is reduced to 32% percent with raid buffs and bloodlust, which is 1049 haste. So if you were to have 500 haste, scale of fates would only bring it up to 942, still 117 short of the cap.
Even in the event you hit the cap, still it only affects instant casts and immolate. It would require 125% haste to cap incinerate, which isn't very feasible unless it is a gimmick encounter such as Vezax. Basically, the haste cap is not something you should be concerned with, or even consider, when making gear decisions. The maximum amount of time a Scale of Fates + Bloodlust can occur is 20 seconds, which is only 6.7% of a 5 minute fight.
Backdraft lowers the global cooldown as well, so the global cooldown with backdraft up can go down to 0.7 seconds. So backdraft has no effect on the haste cap. The soft haste cap (50% haste before buffs) is reduced to 32% percent with raid buffs and bloodlust, which is 1049 haste. So if you were to have 500 haste, scale of fates would only bring it up to 942, still 117 short of the cap.
Even in the event you hit the cap, still it only affects instant casts and immolate. It would require 125% haste to cap incinerate, which isn't very feasible unless it is a gimmick encounter such as Vezax. Basically, the haste cap is not something you should be concerned with, or even consider, when making gear decisions. The maximum amount of time a Scale of Fates + Bloodlust can occur is 20 seconds, which is only 6.7% of a 5 minute fight.
Backdraft does not push global cooldowns below 1 second.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Backdraft does not push global cooldowns below 1 second.
i recall around patch 3.0.9 back draft was changed to reduce the GCD of immolate to allow immolate to benefit from backdraft due to having a cast time of under 1 sec when under the effects of backdraft.
Is that a bug? The tooltip for the talent says it should.
The tooltip says it reduces the cast time and global cooldown of destruction spells by 30%, it does not suggest or imply that this reduction will also hold true past the global cooldown cap. This is in essence a lot like haste- haste reduces the global cooldown, haste however also will not push a global cooldown's duration below the global cooldown cap of 1 second.
Originally Posted by OniAngel
i recall around patch 3.0.9 back draft was changed to reduce the GCD of immolate to allow immolate to benefit from backdraft due to having a cast time of under 1 sec when under the effects of backdraft.
You misunderstood the patchnotes- or more likely you are looking at my comment, and your recollection of the patchnotes- and do not have a perfectly clear recollection of the patchnotes or problem pre-3.0.9. The actual problem was that immolate gained no benefit at all from backdraft.
A person with 0 haste would during backdraft have immolate with 1.5*0.7=1.05 seconds cast time, however backdraft at this poin t in time only had effect on the cast time of spells, and did not change the global cooldown. As a result, your cast time would indeed be 1.05 seconds, however your immolate's global cooldown would still be 1.5 seconds- and there would be no benefit from having backdraft on immolate.
This was fixed, and backdraft now also reduces the global cooldown, allowing for immolate to be casted at the 1.05 seconds with an appropriate 1.05 seconds global cooldown.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Trinkets: Various trinkets which did not work properly with channeled area-of-effect spells will now work with those spells. This includes (but is not limited to) Illustration of the Dragon Soul, Darkmoon Card: Greatness, and Egg of Mortal Essence.
Scale of Fates CAN be used during BL. From the top of my head just Power Infusion (discipline priest buff) doesnt stack with BL.
Just to minimize any confusion: ANY internal haste buff (which is haste that is provided by YOU on yourself, Backdraft, trinkets etc.) stacks but any external (Bloodlust, Power Infusion etc.) does not. For the latter it will only count what is strongest.
A person with 0 haste would during backdraft have immolate with 1.5*0.7=1.05 seconds cast time, however backdraft at this poin t in time only had effect on the cast time of spells, and did not change the global cooldown. As a result, your cast time would indeed be 1.05 seconds, however your immolate's global cooldown would still be 1.5 seconds- and there would be no benefit from having backdraft on immolate.
This was fixed, and backdraft now also reduces the global cooldown, allowing for immolate to be casted at the 1.05 seconds with an appropriate 1.05 seconds global cooldown.
I am trying to make a choice between EotBM and SoF (potentially based on haste cap/gcd)
Based on what your saying, on the current live WOW, are we wasting part of backdraft by having immolate fall somewhere in the 3 casts after.
Here is the haste I am getting during part/all of the fight
Personal haste 16.83 % (552 on armory)
Swift retribution raid buff from pallys 3%
Wrath of air from shaman 5%
back draft 30%
Scale of fates 13.1% (432 for 20 second buff)
Bloodlust 30%
Granted back draft, scale of fates and bloodlust are not always up.... but I should see a backdraft or 2 during either bloodlust or scale of fates.
Is that haste from the trinket getting wasted on the GCD on spells besides Incinerate?
I am trying to make a choice between EotBM and SoF (potentially based on haste cap/gcd)
Based on what your saying, on the current live WOW, are we wasting part of backdraft by having immolate fall somewhere in the 3 casts after.
Here is the haste I am getting during part/all of the fight
Personal haste 16.83 % (552 on armory)
Swift retribution raid buff from pallys 3%
Wrath of air from shaman 5%
back draft 30%
Scale of fates 13.1% (432 for 20 second buff)
Bloodlust 30%
Granted back draft, scale of fates and bloodlust are not always up.... but I should see a backdraft or 2 during either bloodlust or scale of fates.
Is that haste from the trinket getting wasted on the GCD on spells besides Incinerate?
First of: Get both.
You dont really want a haste trinket on, for example, Vezax. And having a use trinket on, for example, XT002 or Steelbreaker hard mode is incredibly valueable.
Second, most of us are judging this by the scalefactors provided by Simcraft. What Simcraft does is it increase+decreases [stat] by 200 and looks at the DPS gain/loss. What this means is that, haste cap situations such as the one that would occur during trinket+backdraft+bloodlust (For example) are for all practical purposes already being accounted for when making up the scale factors. It's important to realize that, because while there will be some more devalueation of an item breaching the haste cap this much during those scenarios, it does mean that the devalueation is for the most part already accounted for.
WIth that said, I'll suggest Scale of fates for "neutral" fights, but to reitterate the first point: Evaluate this from one fight to another.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Right, lets re-do it then with the new scale factors and see what the table looks like. Also lets use proper proc chances, still assuming the 45s internal cooldown- and assuming a cast frequency of 1.5s (You probably need roughly 600 or so haste to have this cast frequency).
Proc chances taken from wowhead spell info.
Formule: Castfrequency / Proc chance = Time to proc.
15% proc chance with a 1.5s cast frequency means 10 seconds to proc after cooldown is up.
10% proc chance with a 1.5s cast frequency means 15 seconds to proc after cooldown is up.
Benefit from proc = Proc / (Internal CD + Time to proc) * Proc Duration
That change basically puts Dying Curse above Eye of the Broodmother. Interestingly enough none of the other trinkets have anything but a 10% proc chance.
First off, thanks a lot for the great information. Apologies if this was included in your gear but does using a Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (+3% crit damage) for your meta socket change the DPS scale at all? Is it as straight line as .99 *1.03?
Since every Warlock spec should use the Chaotic Skyflare diamond, yes. Mind you, you should take those numbers with a grain of salt. The value attributed to hit rating is very much up in the air, and in part depends on wether hit gear is actually dropping for you or not. In general you should look at the gear you have in your bags and see what kind of gear sets you could make with a particular item. If you are using ilvl 213 gear with hit rating on it, and could swap some ilvl 226 gear in when you get the dying curse- it's definitely something you should really consider.
For example, I carry around boots of impetuous ideals, surplus limb, and the Emerald Signet ring- all those just in case I need more or less hit for the particular fight- or I pck up a piece of gear that makes me need more or less hit rating.
Also as the last post suggests: fit your gear to the encounter. For example, if you're on Immortal Guardian duty in phase 3 of yogg Saron, you only actually need about 6% hit before misery- so you can swap most of your hit gear out here if you have better.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Cool, thank you. I am currently hit capped (and using Chaotic) so working on getting gear to swap out hit. Ive only been playing for about a year now and this is my first foray into theorycrafting; finding these posts extremely helpful.
For me its a comparison between Embrace of the Spider versus the Abyssal Shard (in terms of what I actually have and my hit rating being high enough to not use Dying Curse).
(98 SP + a 15% haste proc) versus (84 haste + a 500 SP proc)
I know that proc wise the SP proc is definitely more valuable than the haste one, I've seen the discussion about the haste proc being less valuable due to backdraft/bloodlust clashes. I haven't run scaling values for my character recently, but 98SP has to be more valuable than 84 haste.
If you look at my armory I'm starting to think I have too much haste already, in fact my spellpower is suffering due to my other stats being fairly high:
"We managed to get in a hotfix today that allows periodic healing ticks that were going to overheal entirely to go ahead and fire. Previously they did not fire. This means that effects that were able to proc from HoT ticks that did some healing can now also proc from HoT ticks that overheal completely. The most notable such effect is that Val'anyr's absorb shield should now work as advertised. All these ticks should now appear in the combat log as well, allowing you to get a fuller sense of your raw healing output from all sources.
Sorry that we did not comment before now. Given the nature of the bug, we didn't want to promise anything until we were sure we could fix it."
I see that Fel Armor heal keeps ticking now, even when we are at full health. It showed on MSBT, so i checked combat log.
If I remember correctly, It was decided that Egg of Mortal Essence is not a good trinket because Fel Armor heals did not tick at full health, so the haste effect did not proc.
I wanted to test if the trinket procs at full health after the hotfix, but unfortunately, i dont have enough emblems to buy it again.It seems like a good reason to bring this old discussion back , since this change is directed at item effects.
If I recall correctly, that trinket was fixed so that it was only working on life taps. And then I think it was fixed to not even work on that.
So this may be a dead issue.
Just tested it because I still had the trinket somewhere in my bank. It does still proc off of Life Taps but not off of Fel Armor(neither off of overhealed ticks or healing ticks). So yes, the Egg is still as useful as it was before the patch.
I am thinking about replacing Eye of the broodmother for Abyssal rune. According to my calculations the +SP of AR is 147 for a long fight (AR procs 25% according to wowhead). EotBM only give 125 SP over a long fight. And the haste of AR is way better then the crit. Is it correct what I say above? I find it a bit weird because the ilvl of AR is 200 and of EotBM is 219.
I am thinking about replacing Eye of the broodmother for Abyssal rune. According to my calculations the +SP of AR is 147 for a long fight (AR procs 25% according to wowhead). EotBM only give 125 SP over a long fight. And the haste of AR is way better then the crit. Is it correct what I say above? I find it a bit weird because the ilvl of AR is 200 and of EotBM is 219.
It would be depending on the fight. Sometimes, a steady delivery of dps and spellpower (EotB) is better then semi-random bursts of damage (Abyssal Rune). For a dummy-like dps fight that doesn't require anything else then just maximum dps output, I'd cast my vote for AR. In other scenarios, even though your dps may suffer, I'd say EotB, just because it steadily delivers what it can with the only exception being if you loose the stack.
Yesterday I got the new trinket from ToC 10 -- Fetish of Volatile power .
From the looks of it, this trink is pretty bad for its item level and even worse than the Scale of Fates. The 8 stack of haste falls off after the 20 min effect wares off, so the use effect is way worse than Scale. Furthermore the spell power on Scale is more valuable than the crit the Fetish gives.
I think if the use effect did not ware off after the haste stacked up, but rather worked like illustration or eye of the broodmother this trinket would actually be worth replacing Scale or illistration.
Just looking for any other comments about this trink, maybe I'm missing something?
Yesterday I got the new trinket from ToC 10 -- Fetish of Volatile power .
From the looks of it, this trink is pretty bad for its item level and even worse than the Scale of Fates. The 8 stack of haste falls off after the 20 min effect wares off, so the use effect is way worse than Scale. Furthermore the spell power on Scale is more valuable than the crit the Fetish gives.
I think if the use effect did not ware off after the haste stacked up, but rather worked like illustration or eye of the broodmother this trinket would actually be worth replacing Scale or illistration.
Just looking for any other comments about this trink, maybe I'm missing something?
I got the same item last night (well, alliance version[Talisman of Volatile Power] and was wondering the same thing... I think the 'on use' is shared with SoF as well. I'll be testing it out later tonight on a dummy.
07/13/09, 7:51 AM
[Talisman of Volatile Power] and was wondering the same thing... I think the 'on use' is shared with SoF as well. I'll be testing it out later tonight on a dummy.
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