Trinket Discussion - Page 2

• Nicarras · 12/04/08, 3:40 PM

Yeah I'm not wasting badges on Egg until GC or a Blizzard person confirms that it working for DPS is 'working as intended'. I have a good feeling that it is going to get nerfed on some random Tuesday.

Trickykid · 12/04/08, 7:07 PM

If you want to compare your trinkets, you'll have to do some math (oh noes). The trinkets change around a lot depending upon your spec or the encounter. In order to compare them you need to know a couple things (which you can find in your own WWS):
1) Frequency of DoT ticks
2) Frequency of damage dealt (DD + DoTs)
3) Frequency of harmful spell casts
4) Frequency of spells cast
5) Proc chances (available on wowhead)
6) Internal Cooldowns

The ICDs are still being determined (I think?), but I've been using 15s ICD for the trinkets "dealing damage" on proc and 45s ICD for the "increased stats" on proc. I don't have great data on all of the multipliers/crit-mods for the damage-dealt trinkets, so that's very helpful if people can find it (or have their own data!).

To determine the value of these:
Increased stats = stat_gained*duration/(internal_cooldown+frequency/proc_chance)
Damage dealt (in DPS gained) = damage_dealt*modifiers*(1+crit_chance*crit_mod)/(internal_cooldown+frequency/proc_chance)

Let's take Sundial of the Exiled as an example:
stat_gained=590
duration=10
internal_cooldown=45
frequency=1.5 #note: this means I cast one harmful spell every 1.5 seconds. You'll have to find your WWS reports to figure this number out depending on your spec or the fight.
proc_chance=.1

Spell power from trinket = 590*10/(45+1.5/.1) = 98.3.

EDIT: As a note, these values are slightly undervalued for stand/nuke fights since the first proc is not constrained by ICD. For phased fights it can be under/over-valued depending on your RNG. Potentially undervalued if it procs before heroism or right at the end of a DPS phase. Overvalued if it procs during DPS and the cooldown is used up from movement/non-DPS so you cut even more of the ICD out of the equation.

DiamondTear · 12/05/08, 4:30 PM

I figured this would be the right place to warn the users of [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]. If you get a really long DS when under 25%, the stack can actually fall off.

turturin · 12/05/08, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by DiamondTear

I figured this would be the right place to warn the users of [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]. If you get a really long DS when under 25%, the stack can actually fall off.

Armory is blocked at work, but I took your statement to mean you have this trinket. Can you tell me (us), is the tooltip correct, does it stack off of any spell?

For instance, could I cast demonic circle 10 times while waiting for kel'thuzad adds to build up the stacks (or fel armor or soul link or w/e)? Or does it actually only stack on "harmful spells" like the darkmoon: crusade card did, where you had to hit the mob with something, even if it was only CoS/CoE?

Wuff · 12/05/08, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by turturin

Armory is blocked at work, but I took your statement to mean you have this trinket. Can you tell me (us), is the tooltip correct, does it stack off of any spell?

For instance, could I cast demonic circle 10 times while waiting for kel'thuzad adds to build up the stacks (or fel armor or soul link or w/e)? Or does it actually only stack on "harmful spells" like the darkmoon: crusade card did, where you had to hit the mob with something, even if it was only CoS/CoE?

The Tooltip is correct - it stacks off any spell. The best method to build up 10 before fights is Health Funnel Rank 1 (your manareg continues and the low dmg gets healed by Fel Armor). On the run I use Underwater Breathing or Detect Invisibility.

Jimad · 12/05/08, 9:49 PM

Being somewhat of a math half-wit, I was glad to see your post breaking down gains from "on equip" trinkets, such as Sundial of the Exiled. It was in a form I could grasp (I think). Thanks for taking the time.

My question is regarding a trinket that has not yet been mentioned, and maybe for good reason. I'm not sure.

[Figurine - Twilight Serpent]
- When gemmed with (2) [Runed Dragon's Eye] this trinket provides a static +71 spell power (32)+(32)+(7) = (71).
- It provides a static +42 hit rating (1.6%).
- It increases spell power by 340 for 20 seconds. Unfortunately, it carries a 5 minute CD, making it (for the most part) a once-a-boss trinket.

I guess the main reason for this post is to check my math. As I understand it, the "Use" feature of this trinket works out to be :

340*20/(280) = (24.29 spell power)
+
(71 static spell power)
=
95.29 spell power

So, if my math is on-point, how does anyone else view this trinket? 95.3 spell power and 1.6% spell hit seems fairly good to me.

I ask because my current professions are mining / herbing. I'm strongly considering going Jewelcrafting, as it is a habitual money-maker, but the prospect of this trinket (along with the JC-only gems) is also a big draw.

Thoughts on this trinket?

Bergtau · 12/05/08, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jimad

I ask because my current professions are mining / herbing. I'm strongly considering going Jewelcrafting, as it is a habitual money-maker, but the prospect of this trinket (along with the JC-only gems) is also a big draw.

Thoughts on this trinket?

That thing is pretty interesting, but I think it's outclassed by other trinkets that are more easily accessible for you. You'd probably be able to get both badge trinkets faster than you could level Jewelcrafting, unless you are willing to just buy everything. If you were already a Jewelcrafter, on the other hand, I'd say go for it.

PSGarak · 12/06/08, 4:11 AM

Here's the thing about that analysis: you can't use the JC gems when you're thinking about it. Yes, you can stick the JC gems in there, but if you didn't have the trinket you would still have the JC gems somewhere else on your gear. So the actual benefit the gem is providing to your character is that of when it is gemed with normal blue-level gems.

On the other hand, your On Use effect is budgeted for a five-minute cooldown, which means it's pseudo-overbudget for short fights. If you were to divide the spellpower bonus by the fight duration rather than the cooldown you get a much better average effect. For example, on 3-minute fight it averages to nearly 40, quite a bit higher than 25.

Nyarlathotep · 12/06/08, 4:16 AM

Currently I'm using Sundial of the Exiled and Dying Curse as meta-raider. Any spelldamage buffs to boost raid, have to put Illustration of Dragon Soul to excel and see how it works out considering Demonic Pact.

kaib · 12/06/08, 7:22 AM

Illustration seems very, very good. It stacks up on anything. You can stack up with detect invis pre fight. I have the heal over time that herbalism gives you macroed up with lifetap as it does not use up a GCD. Even that counts, using a lifetap with that gives you two stacks. I can hardly see a fight ever where you wouldn't start with 10 stacks and with detect invis or lifetap you can easily make sure that when you cannot cast dps spells it won't fall off ever.

This might be subject to change though as in this form the trinket seems overpowered to me. It's the same for healers really, they will always enter the fight with 10 stacks and they won't drop off ever.

Turbo Moses · 12/06/08, 9:42 AM

Originally Posted by kaib

Illustration seems very, very good. It stacks up on anything. You can stack up with detect invis pre fight. I have the heal over time that herbalism gives you macroed up with lifetap as it does not use up a GCD. Even that counts, using a lifetap with that gives you two stacks. I can hardly see a fight ever where you wouldn't start with 10 stacks and with detect invis or lifetap you can easily make sure that when you cannot cast dps spells it won't fall off ever.

This might be subject to change though as in this form the trinket seems overpowered to me. It's the same for healers really, they will always enter the fight with 10 stacks and they won't drop off ever.

I don't think it'll change, the Crusade card never was, but that was 80 damage when 44 damage was solid off a trinket (i.e. Icon of the Silver Crescent), I suppose that's a little different than 98 damage being pretty standard for epic trinkets and 260 damage.

I'm just upset I went to a party when our guild was doing Sarth and it dropped. But you know what, I had a hell of a time.

Also, I'm starting a collection for the Darkmoon Card: Death, buying cheaper cards (so far 3 cards under 300 each) and am farming mats for the create-a-card thing inscribers have, made one, but it was from Chaos deck.

Zxero · 12/06/08, 4:22 PM

I've heard rumors that the [The Egg of Mortal Essence] will proc off of HoTs from other people. I haven't heard it from any kind of reliable source yet but if that is the case then im sold.

Could someone that has the trinket do a test?

Bergtau · 12/06/08, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Zxero

I've heard rumors that the [The Egg of Mortal Essence] will proc off of HoTs from other people. I haven't heard it from any kind of reliable source yet but if that is the case then im sold.

Could someone that has the trinket do a test?

It does proc from Fel Armor, so maybe it procs from the bloom in Lifebloom?

I'm pretty sure it doesn't proc from normal things like Rejuvenation and Renew though.

Krazen · 12/06/08, 7:38 PM

Illustration is clearly best in slot. Dying Curse is usable, but it really depends on what you took in other slots.

Buffalo · 12/07/08, 2:38 AM

Originally Posted by Lothiron

Hey everyone.
...I'll start by listing some of the more notable epic trinkets from Wowhead...

There is a useful list of lock trinks at Warlock - WotLK Loot which shows ilvl and source (towards the bottom of the page). I'm aiming for IoDS (260 spell power fully stacked!) and EoNP at the mo.