Apparently, both the normal and heroic versions of the same trinkets can be equipped together. Has anyone gotten the normal and heroic versions of the Reign trinket?
Seems like that'd be the best in slot combo, but the interaction could be odd. If it takes three motes to fire the pillar, and you get two at a time with every crit, do you lose the 4th because it occurs with the 3rd but before the proc goes off? Can the effect stack more than 3 times and does the pillar firing consume your stack or just the necessary three charges?
I find it amusing how the same discussion goes on in different forums;
a. Both trinkets can be equipped in tandem.
b. No the proc from one doesn't create a buff for the other or vice a versa, for the simple reason that they have a 2s CD, so if a crit procced the first trinket it must have procced the other as well, so the proc from the first can't effect the other due to CD.
I find it amusing how the same discussion goes on in different forums;
a. Both trinkets can be equipped in tandem.
b. No the proc from one doesn't create a buff for the other or vice a versa, for the simple reason that they have a 2s CD, so if a crit procced the first trinket it must have procced the other as well, so the proc from the first can't effect the other due to CD.
So for the best results, what you would do is unequip one- crit something, equip the other. To desynch their stacks. Granted, it's a lot of effort for practically nothing, but still.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
So for the best results, what you would do is unequip one- crit something, equip the other. To desynch their stacks. Granted, it's a lot of effort for practically nothing, but still.
Would that really make a difference? The pillar proc happens the same time you get the 3rd crit, or at least under 2sec from critting so the Pillar still won't add a charge to the other trinket if it does crit.
You don't understand how it works; when you crit and trinket is equipped you gain a buff Mote of Flame / Shard of Flame, the buff stacks to 2, when you reach 3 (ie. crit when you have 2 buffs) the buffs are removed and the proc happens. There is no reason to de-sync anything.
If you have both trinkets equipped you gain both buffs each stacking, and both are released when you reach the third crit (barring under 2s crits).
Would that really make a difference? The pillar proc happens the same time you get the 3rd crit, or at least under 2sec from critting so the Pillar still won't add a charge to the other trinket if it does crit.
Good point, it would make no difference at all.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
It's correct. As long as you know the total damage of the trinket and the length of the fight, it's easy to calculate the DPS of it. For example Pillar of Flame does 50 000 on a 5 minute fight: 50 000 / 300 = 166,666... DPS
Of course, this is assuming that you're constantly casting during the encounter and not taking long breaks which I think Council is a good measurement of, since there's not that much movement involved as a caster.
Considering than Living flame is more or less on the same cooldown than Metamophosis, wouldn't its dps gain be increased for 0/56/15 builds considering the spellpower buff is increased by meta's 20% coefficient ?
The haste you gain from scale of fates is awsome, its almost like a personal bloodlust! and if i get the extra hit i can replace my ring!
This is for destro tho, think i'm going to kep the dying curse as demonologi.
That all depends on how much hit you have. [Shard of the Crystal Heart] has a TON of hit, and I think it was introduced to the game as a quick way to get hit-capped in lieu of better itemized gear. A single point of hit over the cap is a waste, so gear accordingly. If you're desperate for hit, you should probably take the trinket. If you have other decent gear (ilvl 232+) with hit, you should probably equip that and try to find a trinket without hit on it. The gear from TOC has plenty of items with hit, so reaching the cap without hit trinkets shouldn't be too hard. My personal preference is to be hit capped by gear other than trinkets, and carry a hit trinket in case our raid doesn't have the 3% spell hit buff.
Was hit capped by 1% before i got the merlin's robe today (replaced conq.). so went 2% under. Had to downgrade my ring and boots by around 50 spelldmg, to get the cap again. Thing is that i dont have to do that if I buy that trinket.
So my question is Dying curse vs. Shard of the Crystal Heart in pure dps? using it on every possible cd.
the short answer is yes it does make your crit value go up, seeing as you now have a new spell that don't burn any GCDs for ~3200 noncrit dmg after debuffs.
On the flip side this new spell has a minimum of 6 sec cast time, crits for only 1.5x + meta gem.
Assuming we're talking about 0/13/58, it seems highly unlikely that reign will boost crit coefficient from 0.82 to match its nearest competiting dps stat which is spirit valued at 1.02.
the short answer is yes it does make your crit value go up, seeing as you now have a new spell that don't burn any GCDs for ~3200 noncrit dmg after debuffs.
On the flip side this new spell has a minimum of 6 sec cast time, crits for only 1.5x + meta gem.
Assuming we're talking about 0/13/58, it seems highly unlikely that reign will boost crit coefficient from 0.82 to match its nearest competiting dps stat which is spirit valued at 1.02.
Sorry for not having hard numbers available.
actually, using this gearset (sry for not gemming correctly) in simcraft the scale factors are HitRating=4.26, SpellDamage=1.61, HasteRating=1.39, Spirit=1.02, CritRating=1.00, Intellect=0.38, pretty much making crit equal to spirit. This is for double anub trinkets though!
....So won this last night, on my Warlock (Destro), in Heroic ToCr 10, and was interested in knowing if this really is as bad as all have said it is...
No hope for this trinket? And if so, are there any classes that might be interested in it? I have 59 min to pass it off to someone else who might find a decent use.
Warlocomotif did the math for the scale of fates vs. Talisman of Volatile power here, but I hadn't seen any numbers for the heroic version. To stop the questions about the heroic Talisman of Volatile Power, I calculated them.
I wrote a spreadsheet to simulate casting over a 22 second period since I couldn't figure out how to model the herioc version of this trinket with simcraft. The ramp up time raid buffed for 420 haste (and no lag) is 10.69 seconds and for 640 haste it's 10.12 if used macrod to conflag (for optimal backdraft procs). This changes the chart for the heroic version (including optimal timing) to
640 haste:
Time | Cur haste |"Total" haste
0-11.36 | 448x7 | 3196.00
11.37-20 | 512x8.63 | 7681.12
This puts it at 384.05 haste for the duration average, + 126 crit, which is still inferior to the Scale of Fates.
Last edited by Shayo : 10/21/09 at 3:34 PM.
Reason: made warlocomotif's suggested corrections
Warlocomotif did the math for the scale of fates vs. Talisman of Volatile power here, but I hadn't seen any numbers for the heroic version. To stop the questions about the heroic Talisman of Volatile Power, I calculated them.
I wrote a spreadsheet to simulate casting over a 22 second period since I couldn't figure out how to model the herioc version of this trinket with simcraft. The ramp up time raid buffed for 420 haste (and no lag) is 10.69 seconds and for 640 haste it's 10.12 if used macrod to conflag (for optimal backdraft procs). This changes the chart for the heroic version (including optimal timing) to
Time | Cur haste | "Total" haste
0-10.12 | 448x7 | 3196
10.13-20 | 512x9.87 | 8249
This puts it at 412.45 haste for the duration average, + 126 crit, which is still inferior to the Scale of Fates.
You're doing a few things wrong, from what I can tell your math is something like this:
(2.5 - 0.5) / (1 + (Haste/3279)) / 1.05 / 1.03
First of, I don't know what you mean by -0.5, you get -0.25s from emberstorm, not -0.5. You get -0.5 from Bane for Shadow Bolt, however the base cast time of shadowbolt is 3s.
Second, the correct way to calculate it is to add all haste together, ie:
(2.5 - 0.25) / (1 + 0.05 + 0.03 + (Haste / 3279))
Past that, you should consider that if you macro it to conflag, that you're going to be using it roughly once every 2 minutes and ~5 seconds, which loses a little bit more of it's value. Either way, this should help you get some slightly better numbers, and it also explains to me why my numbers were quite far off from yours.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
How about those 2 new trinkets from icecrown up on mmo-champion now?
# Item - Icecrown 10 Normal Caster Trinket - Each time you deal spell damage to an opponent, you gain 18 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times.
# Item - Icecrown 10 Heroic Caster Trinket - Each time you deal spell damage to an opponent, you gain 20 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times.
Looks like Illustration all over which is an ilvl 213 trinket, so I guess its safe to assume those will have an added effect with some passive crit or haste or something similar to them. Looks pretty neat then!
I second that, hopefully there will be another passive benefit like 90 haste or crit rating.
There are differences though. IotDS reads: "Each time you cast a damaging or healing spell you gain 20 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times."
The new trinkets say: "Each time you deal spell damage to an opponent, you gain 20 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times."
This means that you cannot "precharge" these new trinkets before a fight starts (or while moving, or waiting for some boss mechanics etc.), as you can do with your IotDS and LT (rank 1) or Health Funnel.
If the new trinkets trigger only from direct damage spells, we will need a certain rampup time for the full 200 sp stack. But if these new trinkets also trigger from DoT damage (as in "deal spell damage"), there will be some happy affliction locks out there.
Second, the correct way to calculate it is to add all haste together, ie:
(2.5 - 0.25) / (1 + 0.05 + 0.03 + (Haste / 3279))
This is a common misconception. But as any shaman can tell you (having both lust and wrath of air) any percent based haste buff is multiplicative where haste rating buffs are additive.
So the general formula would be
actual cast time = cast time / [(haste percent source 1)*(haste percent source 2)*...*(haste percent source N)] / (1+ (haste rating 1 + haste rating 2 +...+ haste rating N)/3279)
This is a common misconception. But as any shaman can tell you (having both lust and wrath of air) any percent based haste buff is multiplicative where haste rating buffs are additive.
So the general formula would be
actual cast time = cast time / [(haste percent source 1)*(haste percent source 2)*...*(haste percent source N)] / (1+ (haste rating 1 + haste rating 2 +...+ haste rating N)/3279)
I was almost sure this wasn't the case, so I logged on my disc priest to try it out (6% talented haste, power infusion, platinum discs of swiftness), but you are completely right. I stand corrected, thanks for pointing that out
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
09/17/09, 11:37 AM
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