Trinket Discussion - Page 24

dedmonwakeen · 11/19/09, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dubbleutyeff

New heroic 5-man trinket found:
Nevermelting Ice Crystal - Items - Sigrie

This trinket has been added to SimC and will be in the next release (v9).

Moox · 11/20/09, 5:33 AM

Thank you. Once I figured out how to actually use the trinket in Simulationcraft, I modified the 55/0/16 BiS profile, exchanging Flare of the Heavens with Nevermelting Ice Crystal.

The modified profile:

#!./simc 

warlock=Warlock_T9_55_00_16_crystal
origin=http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=15214160
level=80
race=undead
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=9&tal=235002200102351025350033115100000000000000000000000000055001005
glyphs=quick_decay/haunt/life_tap
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=fish_feast
actions+=/spell_stone
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_pet,felhunter
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/life_tap,buff_refresh=1
actions+=/wild_magic_potion,bloodlust=1
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1
actions+=/use_item,name=nevermelting_ice_crystal
actions+=/corruption
actions+=/curse_of_agony
actions+=/unstable_affliction
actions+=/haunt
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1
actions+=/shadow_bolt
actions+=/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
actions+=/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1
actions+=/life_tap
head=guldans_hood_of_triumph,stats=282armor_94crit_151sp_116sta_116int_86spi,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=cry_of_the_valkyr,stats=57crit_43haste_91sp_65sta_65int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp
shoulders=guldans_shoulderpads_of_triumph,stats=260armor_76crit_124sp_86sta_86int_68spi,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=guldans_robe_of_triumph,stats=347armor_94hit_160sp_116sta_116int_94spi,gems=23sp_12sp_10spi_7sp,enchant=10str_10agi_10sta_10int_10spi
waist=belt_of_the_tenebrous_mist,stats=195armor_60haste_114sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_23sp_7sp
legs=guldans_leggings_of_triumph,stats=303armor_102crit_86haste_160sp_116sta_116int,gems=23sp_10haste_12sp_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=sandals_of_the_mourning_widow,stats=238armor_68haste_124sp_86sta_86int_76spi,gems=12sp_10spi_23sp_7sp,enchant=12crit_12hit
wrists=bindings_of_the_ashen_saint,stats=152armor_49haste_91sp_65sta_65int_57spi,gems=12sp_10spi_5sp,enchant=30sp
hands=guldans_gloves_of_triumph,stats=217armor_68hit_76crit_124sp_86sta_86int,gems=23sp_4crit,enchant=28sp
finger1=lurid_manifestation,stats=53crit_91sp_65sta_65int_50spi,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=23sp
finger2=conductive_seal,stats=55haste_75sp_52sta_48int_39spi,gems=12sp_10spi_5sp,enchant=23sp
trinket1=reign_of_the_dead,stats=168sp,equip=onspelldirectcrit_2117fire_3stack_2.0cd
trinket2=nevermelting_ice_crystal,stats=111sp,use=OnSpellDirectCrit_184Crit_5Stack_20Dur_180Cd_reverse
back=lady_liadrins_conviction,stats=182armor_57haste_105sp_74sta_74int_65spi,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=barb_of_tarasque,stats=51hit_57haste_692sp_48sta_65int,gems=12sp_10spi_5sp,enchant=63sp,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_108.12min_342.12max
off_hand=lightbane_focus,stats=43hit_51haste_80sp_58sta_55int,gems=10haste_12sp_5sp
ranged=petrified_ivy_sprig,stats=29hit_45sp_26sta_19int_22spi,gems=10haste_12sp_4spi
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=10
# gear_agility=10
# gear_stamina=1155
# gear_intellect=1158
# gear_spirit=738
# gear_spell_power=3049
# gear_hit_rating=297
# gear_crit_rating=650
# gear_haste_rating=596
# gear_armor=2176
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# tier9_2pc_caster=1
# tier9_4pc_caster=1
# back=lady_liadrins_conviction,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=barb_of_tarasque,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_108.12min_342.12max

Simulationcraft was started with patch=3.3.0, optimal_raid=1, 300s Patchwerk fight, iterations=10000. The result for Corruption:

Profile	DPS	DPS%	Ticks	T-Hit	T-Crit	T-Crit%
Flare	2271	22.8%	128	3506	7328	47.2%
Crystal	2529	24.9%	128	3469	7250	64.6%

So Corruption indeed got 17.4% more crit for the entire fight (losing the 120 crit rating of Flare of the Heavens accounts for the missing 2.6% from the predicted 20%). The overall DPS went up from 9982 for BiS w/Flare to 10153 for BiS w/Crystal.

TL;DR: If the Nevermelting Ice Crystal will indeed buff Corruption as modeled in Simulationcraft, it will be a very powerful trinket for affliction locks, beating Flare of the Heavens clearly.

In a second quick Simcraft I built a profile with Flare of the Heavens and Nevermelting Ice Crystal, tossing out the (iLevel 258!) Reign of the Dead. This resulted in an overall DPS of 10143, confirming that the Crystal is nearly as powerful as the Heroic Reign of the Dead. Nice indeed.

dedmonwakeen · 11/20/09, 7:25 AM

When adding a piece of gear that is in one of the Armory/Wowhead/MMO-C databases, it is sufficient to just:

trinket2=item_name,id=item_number

Where:
item_name is created by taking the original name, removing apostrophes/commas/etc, and converting spaces to underscores.
item_number is simply the item ID

Superbrelts · 11/27/09, 8:09 AM

I hate asking stupid questions but I've been looking around for an answer to this for a long time and still haven't found it.

If it's posted somewhere, please delete this post

What I want to know is; How does [Dying Curse] score on the dps if you don't need the hit rating? Is it still rated as one of our better trinkets at 292 dps or will either Eye of the Broodmother or Abyssal Rune score higher?

clavarnway · 11/28/09, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by Superbrelts

I hate asking stupid questions but I've been looking around for an answer to this for a long time and still haven't found it.

If it's posted somewhere, please delete this post

What I want to know is; How does [Dying Curse] score on the dps if you don't need the hit rating? Is it still rated as one of our better trinkets at 292 dps or will either Eye of the Broodmother or Abyssal Rune score higher?

The hit rating is the reason you use Dying Curse, not the proc. If you can't find a way to take advantage of the +Hit, then Abyssal Rune or Eye of the Broodmother destroy it in terms of +DPS.

Warlocomotif · 11/29/09, 8:30 AM

Originally Posted by clavarnway

The hit rating is the reason you use Dying Curse, not the proc. If you can't find a way to take advantage of the +Hit, then Abyssal Rune or Eye of the Broodmother destroy it in terms of +DPS.

That's selling it a bit short, the proc *is* really good. Is the proc alone good enough to beat other trinkets? No- but the proc is why this trinket is regarded as great (the proc is worth roughly 140 spellpower, which is a lot more than any other proc of that level).

nihilis · 12/01/09, 1:04 AM

Reign of Dead/Unliving Procs Do not crit on latest PTR Build on LEVEL 80 target dummy. i observed 50 procs so far.

Can anyone also confim this?

algerroth · 12/09/09, 5:11 AM

Has anyone done any research to see if the Crystal drops off crit on DS tick crits? Also I missed if crit buffs act the same way as haste when Haunt refreshes Corruption. If it works like that it would be pretty bomb for starting rotation and sub 25% affliction.

Demi9OD · 12/09/09, 9:20 AM

Drain Soul cannot crit. That said, popping the trinket at 25% is still a good idea as you will get two UA's off with the full crit buff as you are not casting any spells that would reduce the crit rate. Crit buffs do continue to roll with your corruption and the trinket should be used early on to maintain a high damage corruption throughout the fight.

angaroth · 12/09/09, 10:19 AM

Pillar of Flame can still crit.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Ios · 12/13/09, 2:53 PM

Now that the majority of Icecrown loot has been unveiled, we can begin to theorycraft about the best trinkets available for warlocks. While the Lich King's loot hasn't been released, it seems unlikely that Blizzard would deviate from it's current practice (in ToC and ICC at least) of providing two trinkets for healers, casters, melee, and tanks in 25man (one for 10man). We can reasonably assume that the trinkets that are on the armory right now are the only ones that drop from icecrown.

There are four new caster trinkets available with the 3.3 release -

Phylactery of the Nameless Lich from 25m Sindragosa.
Normal: [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich]
Heroic: [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich]

Dislodged Foreign Object from 25m Rotface.
Normal: [Dislodged Foreign Object]
Heroic: [Dislodged Foreign Object]

Muradin's Spyglass from 10m Gunship.
Normal: [Muradin's Spyglass]
Heroic: [Muradin's Spyglass]

Maghia's Misguided Quill for 60 Emblems of Frost.
[Maghia's Misguided Quill]

Phylactery of the Nameless Lich:
Until the icd for this trinket is discovered, it's hard to estimate how powerful it will be.

Dislodged Foreign Object:
The proc for the normal version is worth between 213 and 243 spellpower, depending on the uptime.
The proc for the heroic version is worth between 240 and 274 spellpower, depending on the uptime.

Assuming the uptime is 2/5:

Affliction: Warlock_T9_55_00_16 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.2949 Spi=0.9831 SP=1.7729 Hit=1.9071 Crit=1.2081 Haste=1.8701
normal DLO is worth 694 dps
heroic DLO is worth 773.6 dps.

Destruction: Warlock_T9_00_18_53 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.5846 Spi=1.2678 SP=1.5852 Hit=4.5771 Crit=0.9953 Haste=1.0900
normal DLO is worth 538.3 dps
heroic DLO is worth 592.7 dps.

Assuming the uptime is 1/5:

Affliction: Warlock_T9_55_00_16 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.2949 Spi=0.9831 SP=1.7729 Hit=1.9071 Crit=1.2081 Haste=1.8701
normal DLO is worth 492 dps
heroic DLO is worth 545.7 dps.

Destruction: Warlock_T9_00_18_53 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.5846 Spi=1.2678 SP=1.5852 Hit=4.5771 Crit=0.9953 Haste=1.0900
normal DLO is worth 353.63 dps
heroic DLO is worth 389 dps.

While DLO may be worse for destro specced warlocks, it's an upgrade (however marginally) in any form for an affliction warlock.

Muradin's Spyglass

Affliction: Warlock_T9_55_00_16 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.2949 Spi=0.9831 SP=1.7729 Hit=1.9071 Crit=1.2081 Haste=1.8701
normal MS is worth 477.4 dps
heroic MS is worth 538.2 dps.

Destruction: Warlock_T9_00_18_53 Sta=0.0000 Int=0.5846 Spi=1.2678 SP=1.5852 Hit=4.5771 Crit=0.9953 Haste=1.0900
normal MS is worth 415.1 dps
heroic MS is worth 467.8152 dps.

Maghia's Misguided Quill gives a colossal 152 hit, and the proc is worth ~119 spellpower, assuming you use it every time it comes off of cooldown. Hit value arguments commence.

Warlocomotif · 12/13/09, 2:58 PM

The proc chance is 10%.

Amerrol · 12/15/09, 6:47 AM

Just wondering how Nevermelting Ice Crystal - Items - Sigrie stacks up to the new trinkets as well as the old ones. Specifically I want to know whether it ranks above or below Dying Curse and Abyssal Rune for Destro and Demo respectively.

crunchyblack · 12/16/09, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Amerrol

Just wondering how Nevermelting Ice Crystal - Items - Sigrie stacks up to the new trinkets as well as the old ones. Specifically I want to know whether it ranks above or below Dying Curse and Abyssal Rune for Destro and Demo respectively.

Dude, read a couple posts up (post #577), jeez.

Amerrol · 12/17/09, 5:59 AM

Originally Posted by crunchyblack

Dude, read a couple posts up (post #577), jeez.

Post #577 talks about how it works with affliction. I was asking how good is it for destro and demo.

Ios · 12/17/09, 6:00 AM

Originally Posted by crunchyblack

Dude, read a couple posts up (post #577), jeez.

The recent changes affecting corruption and how it deals with damage/crit bonuses make this a valid question, I believe.

Trensharo · 12/17/09, 3:10 PM

If I recall correctly, the changes were only for Haste. Crit still gets rolled into the Corruption and stays there as long as you refresh the DoT with Haunt or Shadow Bolt.

I just got the Trinket this morning and I can confirm that the crit stays there. My Corruption crit rate went from 37% to 52% (sample of 200 tick with and without the Trinket proc - not huge, but enough, I feel).

If you proc the Trinket before Haunt lands on the Target, though, it will likely crit and drop the benefit down 182 Crit before your Corruption gets on the MOB/Boss. So, you have to be careful that your Haunt actually hits the boss before you pop the Trinket.

You can also stack this with Potion of Wild Magic, for an extra 4% Crit Rate to Corruption (I haven't tried that [yet], but I'm making a reasonable assumption).

Vathral · 12/20/09, 3:28 AM

Yeah, to confirm post #577's numbers, I had first posted this in another thread.

Well, I've been looking around EJ and other websites regarding information about how strong the [Nevermelting Ice Crystal] is compared to the 245 [Reign of the Dead] .

Took me over a week to see the trinket drop for my warlock, but I finally got it, and I did just a small rough test since I don't quite know how to run a combat log through a simcraft to check out my numbers, but this is what I observed off just my recount.

Given my gear: The World of Warcraft Armory

Again, this is just a very rough, 5 minute test with both trinket combinations.

This is corruption alone with just about 5 minutes worth of sitting at the org NORMAL dummy, keeping my rotation up from about 20 yards away with as little clipping as possible.

On my first test, i was averaging about 5850 DPS wearing [Muradin's Spyglass] / [Reign of the Dead]

Corruption damage

Tick 108 (61%) (Min: 2147 Avg: 2652 Max: 2820)
Crit 70 (39%) (Min: 4078 Avg: 5523 Max: 5894)

This is Pillar of Flame's damage as a result:

Hit 9 (64%) (Min: 1810 Avg: 1949 Max: 2060)
Crit 5 (36%) (Min: 2841 Avg: 2961 Max: 3140)

Now this is a slightly shorter test, only dropping corruption on the target (without Black Magic) once I procced the ring effect from [Ashen Band of Unmatched Destruction] and with Eradication up.

On my second test, I was averaging about 6095 DPS wearing [Muradin's Spyglass] / [Nevermelting Ice Crystal]

Corruption damage

Crit 97 (66%) (Min: 4444 Avg: 5481 Max: 5842)
Tick 49 (34%) (Min: 1933 AVg: 2598 Max: 2796)

The overall increase in damage I was doing is absolutely staggering considering I was downgrading from a 245 to a 232. If there's any way I can do a more precise/longer test with what I have available, please let me know. If anyone wants me to make any modifications to the numbers I was running, I'll be glad to do it.

But for the most part, if you can maintain corruption indefinitely when you need it most, this is by far a huge increase over the 245 Reign of the Dead from these numbers, and I plan on keeping the replacement.

So as post #577 says, this trinket is the way to go if you can hold it up.

Madlax · 12/20/09, 8:08 AM

Here are the numbers from the so far known BiS T10 profile I submitted to the simcraft for 00_13_58
Base DPS "BiS set": 11587 (DFO277 + Reign258)
No trinkets at all: 10277
Dislodged Foreign Object_277: 10983(+706)
Dislodged Foreign Object_264: 10897(+620)
Reign of the Dead_258: 10860(+583)
Muradin's Spyglass_264: 10808(+531)
Reign of the Dead_245: 10805(+528)
Muradin's Spyglass_251: 10766(+489)
Double Dislodged: 11496(+1219)
Double Dislodged together is less potent in this particular set because of a haste "chasm" at very high haste levels.

I´ll have a look at Affliction later today I guess.

Naforce · 12/20/09, 9:27 AM

Originally Posted by Madlax

Here are the numbers from the so far known BiS T10 profile I submitted to the simcraft for 00_13_58
Base DPS "BiS set": 11587 (DFO277 + Reign258)
No trinkets at all: 10277
Dislodged Foreign Object_277: 10983(+706)
Dislodged Foreign Object_264: 10897(+620)
Reign of the Dead_258: 10860(+583)
Muradin's Spyglass_264: 10808(+531)
Reign of the Dead_245: 10805(+528)
Muradin's Spyglass_251: 10766(+489)
Double Dislodged: 11496(+1219)
Double Dislodged together is less potent in this particular set because of a haste "chasm" at very high haste levels.

I´ll have a look at Affliction later today I guess.

You might wan't to test [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich] and [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich] aswell, one of those in combination with Dislodged Foreign Object might prove valuable! I'm guessing they might not be implemented in to simcraft yet though.

Blashnar · 12/20/09, 10:02 AM

Just a quick note for those looking at Muradin's Spyglass: while you can't stack it ahead of time with life tap and health funnel, you can still stack it using hellfire pre-fight.

Poppaperm · 12/20/09, 11:25 AM

Here are the numbers from the so far known BiS T10 profile I submitted to the simcraft for 00_13_58
Base DPS "BiS set": 11587 (DFO277 + Reign258)
No trinkets at all: 10277
Dislodged Foreign Object_277: 10983(+706)
Dislodged Foreign Object_264: 10897(+620)
Reign of the Dead_258: 10860(+583)
Muradin's Spyglass_264: 10808(+531)
Reign of the Dead_245: 10805(+528)
Muradin's Spyglass_251: 10766(+489)
Double Dislodged: 11496(+1219)
Double Dislodged together is less potent in this particular set because of a haste "chasm" at very high haste levels.

I´ll have a look at Affliction later today I guess.

You might wan't to test [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich] and [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich] aswell, one of those in combination with Dislodged Foreign Object might prove valuable! I'm guessing they might not be implemented in to simcraft yet though.

I think you guys missed the patch notes. We will not be allowed to use "double trinkets" like we did in ToC.

From the patch notes in the items section:

Icecrown Citadel Items: Normal and Heroic versions of Icecrown Citadel rings and trinkets are considered Unique-Equipped and cannot be used at the same time.

Madlax · 12/20/09, 4:15 PM

Ah thanks for that quote, I was sure I read it somewhere and also saw the Unique(1) tag the item have on mmos db but I just couldn't find the quote any more.
While it does not change anything for Destro regarding trinket of choice, I´ll go through the Affliction BiS list again now and give you some results in a bit then.

Aff 56_00_15 profile without trinkets: 10952
Dislodged_177: 11780(+828)
Dislodged_164: 11682(+730)
Muradin_164: 11553(+601)
Muradin_151: 11483(+531)
Reign_158: 11474(+522)
Reign_145: 11409(+457)
Nevermelting, Phylateracy - the proccs dont show up, so I´m pretty sure the trinket is not properly implemented yet.

Aff 55_00_16 profile without trinkets: 10929
Dislodged_177: 11717
Dislodged_164: 11617
Muradin_164: 11513
Muradin_151: 11436
Reign_158: 11418
Reing_145: 11363

I have added my compiled profiles(notepad won) at
Madlax's Profile - Wowhead
I don't suggest downloading them from Wowhead right now as set bonuses and things are not working properly yet.

You can find the profiles and open questions at Issue 211 - simulationcraft - Warlock T10 profiles - Project Hosting on Google Code if you fancy to dig a little deeper.

hertzuk · 12/21/09, 7:12 AM

edit: wrong forum >.<

dedmonwakeen · 12/21/09, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Madlax

Nevermelting, Phylateracy - the proccs dont show up, so I´m pretty sure the trinket is not properly implemented yet.

These trinkets should be implemented in v5. Can you open an issue (or post or pm) with the profile you expected to see these trinkets proc'ing?