What's the reason for the DFO/Phylactery combo being 50 dps better than the DFO/Nevermelting, even though individually the trinkets give equal boosts to dps?
My educated guess would be increase in combat-ratings. SP scales up by a lot if you compare the parses with and without trinkets. And the SP proc of the Phylateracy is a huge difference compared to the Nevermelting one.
Considering the accessibility of Nevermelting, that makes it an amazingly easy to get endgame trinket(which also answers a lot of questions raised)
Here are the numbers from the so far known BiS T10 profile I submitted to the simcraft for 00_13_58
Base DPS "BiS set": 11587 (DFO277 + Reign258)
No trinkets at all: 10277
Dislodged Foreign Object_277: 10983(+706)
Dislodged Foreign Object_264: 10897(+620)
Reign of the Dead_258: 10860(+583)
Muradin's Spyglass_264: 10808(+531)
Reign of the Dead_245: 10805(+528)
Muradin's Spyglass_251: 10766(+489)
Double Dislodged: 11496(+1219)
Double Dislodged together is less potent in this particular set because of a haste "chasm" at very high haste levels.
I´ll have a look at Affliction later today I guess.
Where would Nevermelting Crystal be on this list for Destro? Or would it be worse than MS even? >.<
I did some testing on the [Nevermelting Ice Crystal] and compared it to the common [Abyssal Rune] to see how much of an upgrade it was. I tested it using both a Patchwerk and Helter Skelter Fight style, using a 500 second fight (give or take 10%) with 1000 iterations. I also did not include shaman buffs as we don't always have one in our 10man raids. Here are my results:
So on a Patchwerk-style fight, the Ice Crystal is almost a 200 dps increase from Abyssal Rune, however only a 20dps increase on a Helter Skelter fight. Does anyone know why this is? Is it because the simulation presumes we use the trinket right before our first corruption application and rolls the 920 crit throughout (since it wasn't hotfixed), so why does this not work as effectively on those movement fights or add switching?
So on a Patchwerk-style fight, the Ice Crystal is almost a 200 dps increase from Abyssal Rune, however only a 20dps increase on a Helter Skelter fight. Does anyone know why this is? Is it because the simulation presumes we use the trinket right before our first corruption application and rolls the 920 crit throughout (since it wasn't hotfixed), so why does this not work as effectively on those movement fights or add switching?
I'm guessing because they're assuming a chance your corruption will fall off.
Its because of the damage you lose to keep this trinket up, when refreshing, and the inevitable end of the effect
If you want to keep it up, you cant cast shadowbolts, but use drain soul, thats the first loss
Second, your dots would do 90% of the damage since you arent shadowbolting, so you need shaodow mastery
both shadowmastery and the haunt effect require you to cast .... haunt.
Haunt offcourse is a direct damage spell, so it will lower the stack when it crits, and it will crit allmost every time
this trinket however, can give you a breathtaking dps increase on fights that are all about the final 25%, like yogg sharon.
pop the trinket on bloodlust,AFTER haunt, and see corrption and unstable affliction do mad damage, while you are channeling drain soul.
yeah, you will lose stacks when reapplying haunt, but only about 2 during bloodlust.
Its because of the damage you lose to keep this trinket up, when refreshing, and the inevitable end of the effect
If you want to keep it up, you cant cast shadowbolts, but use drain soul, thats the first loss
Second, your dots would do 90% of the damage since you arent shadowbolting, so you need shaodow mastery
both shadowmastery and the haunt effect require you to cast .... haunt.
Haunt offcourse is a direct damage spell, so it will lower the stack when it crits, and it will crit allmost every time
this trinket however, can give you a breathtaking dps increase on fights that are all about the final 25%, like yogg sharon.
pop the trinket on bloodlust,AFTER haunt, and see corrption and unstable affliction do mad damage, while you are channeling drain soul.
yeah, you will lose stacks when reapplying haunt, but only about 2 during bloodlust.
The 1st part of your post is correct, the rest isn't. The helter-skelter scenario increases the chance that the "initial" corruption with the 20% additional crit chance from Nevermelting Ice Crystal might drop off. It has been shown that you can roll an "inflated" crit chance corruption as long it continues to be refreshed via Haunt,Shadow-Bolt or Drain Soul. That's why it's a sexy trinket for Affliction Warlocks on fights where there are no problems keeping the initial inflated Corruption rolling.
To be honest, nevermelting ice crystal is a nice trinket for average to good geared affliction locks, but in a 25man raid situation, when having acceptabale gear for icecrown 25, the value drops down quite alot.
With base critical rating of 25% and haste well over 700 with spellstone applied, in a raid situation you are running on critical rates of 40-45% on both haunt and shadowbolt.
Assuming they'll fix the crit bug on corr, you basically get 2 full rounds of UA, and around 23 seconds of corruption like that, since haunt and shadowbolt are critting like mad when the effect is up.
Offcourse its still nice when used on bloodlust in drainsoul phase.
But with muradin's spyglass, and abbysal rune/illustration of dragonsoul there for the taking, i'd say there are better alternatives allready.
Not to mention how poorly it compares to dislodged foreign object and Phylactery of the Nameless Lich.
To be honest, nevermelting ice crystal is a nice trinket for average to good geared affliction locks, but in a 25man raid situation, when having acceptabale gear for icecrown 25, the value drops down quite alot.
With base critical rating of 25% and haste well over 700 with spellstone applied, in a raid situation you are running on critical rates of 40-45% on both haunt and shadowbolt.
Assuming they'll fix the crit bug on corr, you basically get 2 full rounds of UA, and around 23 seconds of corruption like that, since haunt and shadowbolt are critting like mad when the effect is up.
Offcourse its still nice when used on bloodlust in drainsoul phase.
But with muradin's spyglass, and abbysal rune/illustration of dragonsoul there for the taking, i'd say there are better alternatives allready.
Not to mention how poorly it compares to dislodged foreign object and Phylactery of the Nameless Lich.
Assuming. Currently warlocks do less damage then most pures, and a number of hybrids. Seeing as lock DPS is no longer as high as when they had problems with it, assuming that is a silly thing.
Question, is NMIC better then Flare in a destro spec?
Will the proc of Reign of the Dead trigger Nibelung as it's a direct damage spell?
And will the Valkyr from Nibelung's crits (though they're rare) count towards a RotD proc?
As far as I know it would be impossible to know if RotD can trigger Nibelung, since the crit and the trinket proc will land at the same time, so if Nibelung procs I wouldn't know how to determine which spell that caused the Nibelung proc. As for your second question, I have no idea. My guess is that it won't since it's a summoned minion's crit and not your crit.
As far as I know it would be impossible to know if RotD can trigger Nibelung, since the crit and the trinket proc will land at the same time, so if Nibelung procs I wouldn't know how to determine which spell that caused the Nibelung proc. As for your second question, I have no idea. My guess is that it won't since it's a summoned minion's crit and not your crit.
In a the combat log, when your Conflag crits is your third crit and tiggers RotD, Does it read:
Players conflag hit target for X
Player gains backdarft
Player gains pyroclasm
Players mote of flame hits target for Y
or does it read
Players conflag hit target for X
Players mote of flame hits target for Y
Player gains backdarft
Player gains pyroclasm
If the combat log reads the first way then we should beable to find out if RotD procs Niblelung, because this would show us that the even if two spells land at the same time, wow processes the 1st spell's damage and it's procs and then the 2nd spell's damage, and it's every procs(not able to get on wow atm to test). On the other hand if the Combat log reads the the 2nd way, then Naforce is correct and it would be almost impossible to tell.
Last edited by Calidus : 01/04/10 at 4:25 PM.
Reason: Spelling
It seems you multiply the spell power/haste/crit columns with their proper values, but use 1.00 for the hit column? All +hit trinkets should have a much higher average DPS in your table...
Originally Posted by Warlocomotif
Item
SP
Haste
Hit
Crit
DPS
Flare of the Heavens
142
0
0
120
338.9
Illustration of the Dragon Soul
200
0
0
0
310.0
Scale of Fates
125
72
0
0
288.8
Eye of the Broodmother
125
0
0
87
279.9
Dying Curse
128
0
71
0
269,4
Embrace of the Spider
98
84
0
0
262.8
Elemental Focus Stone
87
0
108
0
242.9
Living Flame
84
0
107
0
237.2
Sundial the Exiled
98
0
0
84
235.6
This is assuming:
* Scale factors SP=1.55, Haste=1.23, Hit=1, Crit=0.99
* Trinkets with a 45s internal cooldown and 10% proc chance proc once per minute.
* Trinkets with a use effect are used on cooldown
The reason hit is valued at "1" dps, is because if you value hit too high, you'll get way too much of it and it loses it's value. If you don't value hit you'll get too little hit rating and hurt your DPS aswell. I did some gear mixing and matching and found that if you valued it at roughly 1 DPS, you'd get to roughly the amount of hit rating you need.
Note though, since I made this list the scale factors have been updated. The value of haste has increased a lot since the latest change.
Based on T9 gear obviously Hugh, and that should be enough for you to roughly estimate current values, and or compute them pretty much fully. If a nice easy updated listing like that has been made for 3.3 I haven't found it.
Edit to add: taking those numbers and plugging them into say lootrank will pretty much set you up with a simple dps based gear listing, for trinkets and other gear as well.
Last edited by Magelordx : 01/04/10 at 8:03 PM.
Reason: additional info
If the combat log reads the first way then we should beable to find out if RotD procs Niblelung, because this would show us that the even if two spells land at the same time, wow processes the 1st spell's damage and it's procs and then the 2nd spell's damage, and it's every procs(not able to get on wow atm to test). On the other hand if the Combat log reads the the 2nd way, then Naforce is correct and it would be almost impossible to tell.
I've not been able to see Nibelung procs in my combat log at all - there's no buff gained that indicated you have val'kyr guardians, and while it's easy to calculate their uptime based on their actions in the combat log, testing what can and cannot proc them seems to be limited to casting single spells and waiting for procs, which we cannot do with RotD.
In regards to detecting the RotD proc, it does have a travel time. There is no visible travel animation but there is a very notable delay between the crit (and a little firey-hands casting animation) and the arrival of the Pillar of Flame at its target. It's pretty slow, I've often meant to test if a RotD proc at max range could indeed provide the next Mote if it crits. Either way if you're only casting one spell at a time it should be easy to tell whether it was the spell crit or the Pillar crit that procced Nibelung.
As for the staff proc itself, my purely non-scientific testing has left me less than impressed. In multiple ICC rep farm runs and clears I tested it on pulls ranging from 10+ target seed spam to long term single target and never saw more than one val'kyr up at a time. More than once I didn't get a single proc from first pull all the way to Marrowgar. Multidotting did not seem to make a difference either. Perhaps im just phenomenally unlucky, but all in all it seems to bea powerfully underwhelming proc compared to the missing stats it is supposed to be offsetting.
As for the staff proc itself, my purely non-scientific testing has left me less than impressed. In multiple ICC rep farm runs and clears I tested it on pulls ranging from 10+ target seed spam to long term single target and never saw more than one val'kyr up at a time. More than once I didn't get a single proc from first pull all the way to Marrowgar. Multidotting did not seem to make a difference either. Perhaps im just phenomenally unlucky, but all in all it seems to bea powerfully underwhelming proc compared to the missing stats it is supposed to be offsetting.
I think you were the victim of some bad rng. While I won't say the proc is uber-godly, it did reasonably well for me last night, both on trash as well as Rotface and Festergut (4% of my total dmg on Festergut and 6% on Rotface). For context I was affliction and pulled mid 7k-ish on both fights (from memory, my GL has not yet uploaded our parses).
Both of our data sets are very small. I plan to watch the stats on this closely over a number of fights in the coming weeks before concluding.
One small note: there are some (unconfirmed) reports that secondary effects (like improved shadowbolt) count as harmful spell applications and get a chance to proc. Affliction shadowbolt may have an effective proc chance of 4% for this reason. Although my sample size is small this could explain the somewhat larger than expected overall dmg contributions that I saw last night. Its another thing I'll be watching (and testing extensively on a dummy if I ever get the time)
There will be a 3.3 post up for trinkets once we are sure of numbers(...)
Is there any ETA on that?
Yesterday I finally got [Reign of the Unliving] (258), and replaced my [Flare of the Heavens] with it. The point is, that I am playing affli (56/0/15) so Reign isn't that obvious boost for me. I was doing some dummies test and it appeard that on 5min fight my DPS is pretty similiar with both mentioned trinkets (using [Muradin's Spyglass] as second one).
The updated table for affli builds that would contain old trinkets would be really helpful.
I'm having trouble finding out the DPS value of [Purified Lunar Dust] and where it sits in the trinket ranking so can anyone help, espeically with the DPS value of the proc (however meagre this may be)?
Before the "that's a healer trinket" posts start, I know it's not perfect or anywhere near BiS but my bad luck with trinkets is legendary. I currently have [Eye of the Broodmother], [Scale of Fates], and [Nevermelting Ice Crystal] to choose from and I was thinking that now it has been boosted to 179 spell power that [Purified Lunar Dust] might be better than my other options, plus it's obtainable even with my appalling luck.
I'm having trouble finding out the DPS value of [Purified Lunar Dust] and where it sits in the trinket ranking so can anyone help, espeically with the DPS value of the proc (however meagre this may be)?
Before the "that's a healer trinket" posts start, I know it's not perfect or anywhere near BiS but my bad luck with trinkets is legendary. I currently have [Eye of the Broodmother], [Scale of Fates], and [Nevermelting Ice Crystal] to choose from and I was thinking that now it has been boosted to 179 spell power that [Purified Lunar Dust] might be better than my other options, plus it's obtainable even with my appalling luck.
To my knowledge, all mp5 is suspended during combat and locks don't have talents to circumvent it. So essentially the proc is completely wasted. <-- Disregard. I was mistaken. The rest of the post I still stand by.
12/21/09, 10:06 AM
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