Trinket Discussion - Page 3

◊ Melbuframa · 12/09/08, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Turbo Moses

also, does anyone know the internal CD of Sundial? I'm gonna guess 45, seems to be pretty standard.

Its 45 seconds just like Dying Curse. I ran both last week, and the procs are fun, especially when they proc together. Yes sometimes they can proc at odd times so you get mostly SBs off but with a 10s duration you can almost always get 1-2 dot refreshes in when the proc is up.

I’m going to run Curse and Embrace this week. Embrace also has a 45s cooldown (I’m assuming Egg does as well) but Embrace procs off everything you cast, even making bolts of frostweave. Anyway last week I pulled ~4500 DPS on Patch with Curse/Sundial we run without a Moonkin or Ele shaman

. This was before upgrading Gloves, Shoulders, Staff, Chest and Wand. Ill report back on how well Embrace works with aff. I will most likely be speced like this 53/0/18 Warlock Talents - World of Warcraft Talent Calculator - WoW Tools as I want to test out ISBs usefulness as well.

Boop · 12/09/08, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Would you mind testing something out for me?

During the beta that trinket had a different effect, it caused the shadow damage only when targets had below 35% life. What I am wondering is if the trinket's cooldown doesn't scale inversely with the target's lifebar.

Just really can't see Blizzard making a purple ilevel 200 item with such a poor proc, considering there are blues with the exact same effects that do more damage.

That's a can do. Will bring it to 25Naxx tonight.

Toodels · 12/10/08, 8:02 AM

Any opinion about [Frenzyheart Insignia of Fury] yet? I heard it procs for 91 Crit Rating which stacks up to 5 times. Currently I am running with the badge one and Forged Emberer. As i will be exalted with Frenzyheart tomorrow I am wondering if it would be an improvement until I get another one from Naxx - or maybe it is even worth to keep it for trash. What do you think?

◊ Melbuframa · 12/10/08, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by Toodels

Any opinion about [Frenzyheart Insignia of Fury] yet? I heard it procs for 91 Crit Rating which stacks up to 5 times. Currently I am running with the badge one and Forged Emberer. As i will be exalted with Frenzyheart tomorrow I am wondering if it would be an improvement until I get another one from Naxx - or maybe it is even worth to keep it for trash. What do you think?

The issue with trinkets like that one is that you have to get the "killing blow" for it to proc; unless they changed it. IMO they aren’t even that good for soloing but that’s just me.

…..

Last night I ran Dying Curse and Embrace of the Spider as I posted about above as that spec I posted. I Managed 5K DPS on patch with fat fingering the rotation around 40% and throwing things off. Patch took slightly over 3 min to kill and Dying Curse proced 4 times and Embrace 3 times. With the proc basically doubling haste it allows for some great SB spam in-between dot refreshes. It seems to be a superior trinket to Sundial for aff. The only issue with it is that if it procs at the same time as either Bloodlust or Eradication you will be haste capped

Wow Web Stats

Boop · 12/10/08, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Would you mind testing something out for me?

During the beta that trinket had a different effect, it caused the shadow damage only when targets had below 35% life. What I am wondering is if the trinket's cooldown doesn't scale inversely with the target's lifebar.

Just really can't see Blizzard making a purple ilevel 200 item with such a poor proc, considering there are blues with the exact same effects that do more damage.

([Darkmoon Card: Death]) is indeed that bad.

Thaddius fight last night, 4 minutes - it procced 5 times.

19:15'44.493 Toshira Darkmoon Card: Death hits Thaddius for 2809 Shadow. (Critical) (402 Resisted)
19:16'32.104 Toshira Darkmoon Card: Death hits Thaddius for 1692 Shadow. (166 Resisted)
19:17'17.935 Toshira Darkmoon Card: Death hits Thaddius for 2066 Shadow.
19:18'04.351 Toshira Darkmoon Card: Death hits Thaddius for 1901 Shadow. (187 Resisted)
19:18'49.401 Toshira Darkmoon Card: Death hits Thaddius for 1853 Shadow. (182 Resisted)

Terrible, terrible trinket.

Shodan30 · 12/10/08, 3:23 PM

Lets sum up what weve learned so far:
I've sorted these from MUST HAVE to meh.

[Extract of Necromatic Power] - 15 second internal cooldown - Can crit - New Timbrals
Notes: New Timbal's Focusing Crystal.

[Illustration of the Dragon Soul] - provides at max 260 consistant spell damage boost. Affliction locks in particular who are constantly casting instants would probably find this great as it would ramp up faster then for Destro/Demo locks. Yet still a great if not the best trinket.

45 second cooldown trinkets
[Dying Curse] - Internal cooldowns put a slight hamper on these trinkets..they are good for intermediary trinkets but you really want the top ones.
[Embrace of the Spider] - Same as above
[Sundial of the Exiled] - Same as above
[The Egg of Mortal Essence] - Very likely to be nerfed...If you insist on purchasing it make sure you have everything else you need first else you risk it being vendor fodder when the nerf does come.

Meh:
[Darkmoon Card: Illusion] - Healing trinket. probably shouldnt be on the table for locks
[Darkmoon Card: Death] - 45 second internal cooldown - Can Crit - Scales somewhat with spell damage

Villeraz · 12/10/08, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shodan30

[Illustration of the Dragon Soul] - provides at max 260 consistant spell damage boost. Affliction locks in particular who are constantly casting instants would probably find this great as it would ramp up faster then for Destro/Demo locks. Yet still a great if not the best trinket.

I more or less agree with your post entirely, but want to make a small correction in this statement. Anyone using this trinket should have no ramping-up period at all, since 10 casts of Detect Invisibility or Underwater Breathing should stack this up fully. The only advantage an affliction lock will have is that they are more likely to be able to cast an instant to renew the stacks without changing their rotation, although even a destruction lock can just cast Detect Invisibility if he ever has a 10 second gap where he can't cast on the boss. I'd be curious to know if Lifetap also triggers it.

Voidbringer · 12/10/08, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by Villeraz

I'd be curious to know if Lifetap also triggers it.

Lifetap triggers it.

Bergtau · 12/10/08, 7:55 PM

I'm curious about the value of the Thunder Capacitor/Lightning Capacitor trinkets on Loatheb. I figured since my crit rate will be above 80%, Thunder Capacitor is worth using because it's going off every 10 seconds give or take. I say 10 seconds because of Haunt, Immolate, and Haste. It says charges can't be acquired more than once every 2.5 seconds, but that's never been true.

caje · 12/11/08, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lothiron

[The Egg of Mortal Essence]
Notes: 40 badge trinket. The haste proc -DOES- proc off of Fel Armor ticks, as well as 2pc T5 heals, as long as they are not 100% overheal ticks.

Can someone confirm if Egg still work like this. I noticed some fixes yestarday but haven't seen any comments about this issue. I am also interested how many procs (average) people gets in real raids (lets say PW).

Medieval · 12/11/08, 6:00 AM

it worked for me last night. If you're not topped off and FA ticks, it will work constantly. It's like an incentive to lifetap.
I did Vault of hat's his name in Wintergrasp last man, it procced almost each time FA was ticking.

• dragon12 · 12/11/08, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by Medieval

it worked for me last night. If you're not topped off and FA ticks, it will work constantly. It's like an incentive to lifetap.
I did Vault of hat's his name in Wintergrasp last man, it procced almost each time FA was ticking.

This is blatant misinformation - the trinket has a 45s icd regardless of whether or not it procs off FA.

marano · 12/11/08, 8:00 AM

I'd like to shed some light on the whole 'Crit ain't important for Aff locks' theory.

We all know that hit is the most important stat for basically every damage dealing class which deals anything but holy damage.

Haste is easily acquired and stacked up. Therefore crit based items are valuable. Yes, even for us Affliction warlocks. I never compared it to a fight where you get 50% crit buff, BUT the person who did, DID show us Pandemic's potential when you stack up enough crit.

Achieving 30% crit rating raid buffed in Affliction will already make Pandemic a significant talent. Also, 30% raid buffed crit is fairly easy to achieve.

In raids, I am hitcapped. Haste is acquired in high number from gear. That's why I've decided to gem for spellpower and crit.

Dragon12 I wouldn't call it 'horrible misinformation'. Furthermore, please try to remain objective and take hold of your emotions. I merely stated facts. Pandemic IS a crit based talent, deep down the Affliction tree which DOES very high damage after having stacked up a reasonable amount of crit. I never said that crit is more important than any other stat. I said it's important and shouldn't be passed on, period.

• dragon12 · 12/11/08, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by marano

stuff

You're clearly working from "feel" rather than on actual numbers. I'm not saying pass on crit, but I'm saying that for affliction it's worth approximately 1/3rd of 1 spelldamage in terms of dps gain. We rank every piece of gear in terms of its dps gain, not "well I've got loads of haste and hit let's go for some crit instead". I've already spoken to your points on Pandemic, and they don't make sense in terms of maxing dps. Gemming or aiming for crit in particular as any warlock spec is pretty sub-par.

ixobelle · 12/11/08, 9:46 AM

Oh boy, Darkmoon Death sucks. I got it, huge waste of gold.

I swapped out Mark of the War Prisoner for it, and yeah. There's about 1700g down the drain. I'm really hoping it gets re-evaluated, because the way it is, it's bad.

marano · 12/11/08, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by dragon12

You're clearly working from "feel" rather than on actual numbers. I'm not saying pass on crit, but I'm saying that for affliction it's worth approximately 1/3rd of 1 spelldamage in terms of dps gain. We rank every piece of gear in terms of its dps gain, not "well I've got loads of haste and hit let's go for some crit instead". I've already spoken to your points on Pandemic, and they don't make sense in terms of maxing dps. Gemming or aiming for crit in particular as any warlock spec is pretty sub-par.

Maybe you're right. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check how much dps we gain per point of haste after having stacked up to 600 haste. Then, checking how much dps we gain per point of crit.

I know gemming for crit pre wrath was a bad idea. But with my low crit rating as Aff, it seems I gain more from 1 crit than 1 haste.

Number would be wonderful though.

• dragon12 · 12/11/08, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by marano

But with my low crit rating as Aff, it seems I gain more from 1 crit than 1 haste.

See, you can't really say things like that without having some reasoning behind them.

Simulcraft (which is the most reliable tool we have at the moment) gave me the following scaling factors for my current gear:

Warlock_0_53_18            intellect=0.16  spirit=0.37  spell_power=0.79  hit_rating=1.07  crit_rating=0.33  haste_rating=0.51
  Warlock_2_13_56            intellect=0.29  spirit=0.45  spell_power=0.95  hit_rating=1.29  crit_rating=0.40  haste_rating=0.76
  Warlock_56_0_15            intellect=0.18  spirit=0.49  spell_power=1.26  hit_rating=1.11  crit_rating=0.44  haste_rating=0.64

Anyway - this discussion is best placed elsewhere rather than in the Trinket Discussion thread.

• KingSpeedy · 12/11/08, 1:33 PM

[Illustration of the Dragon Soul] is getting nerfed from 26 spellpower per stack to 18. Seems to drop it back into the middle of the pack as far as caster trinkets go.

Source

Yeoldelock · 12/11/08, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by marano

Maybe you're right. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check how much dps we gain per point of haste after having stacked up to 600 haste. Then, checking how much dps we gain per point of crit.

I know gemming for crit pre wrath was a bad idea. But with my low crit rating as Aff, it seems I gain more from 1 crit than 1 haste.

Number would be wonderful though.

Dots and you: The Affliction Warlock Thread

Bottom of the second post.

Hit > Damage > Haste > Crit > Spirit > Int

Shodan30 · 12/11/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by KingSpeedy

[Illustration of the Dragon Soul] is getting nerfed from 26 spellpower per stack to 18. Seems to drop it back into the middle of the pack as far as caster trinkets go.

Source

I dont know...constant 180 spell power is still probably above the middle group

Nicarras · 12/11/08, 3:23 PM

I see the nerf as just moving the trinket more towards DPS casters and away from the Healers. It is still a top tier trinket.

• KingSpeedy · 12/11/08, 3:54 PM

Yeah, just did some rough math comparing Embrace, Illustration, and the Sundial. Using the scaling factors I pulled from a fresh Simcraft run based on my gear/spec (1 Spellpower = 1.5dps, 1 Haste/Crit = 0.75). I came up with the Illustration at 270 dps, the Sundial at 235 dps, and the Embrace at 222 dps. For the cooldowns on the Sundial and Embrace, I generalized to about 1/5 uptime (45sec CD + ~5sec to proc the next one). In reality it's probably even a bit lower than that. So it looks like the Illustration is still the best trinket available.

Just for the hell of it, I ran some numbers on the Extract too, and came up pretty disappointed. Not counting the trinket critting, I only calculated it to be 141 dps, far and away behind anything else available.

◊ Melbuframa · 12/11/08, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by KingSpeedy

Yeah, just did some rough math comparing Embrace, Illustration, and the Sundial. Using the scaling factors I pulled from a fresh Simcraft run based on my gear/spec (1 Spellpower = 1.5dps, 1 Haste/Crit = 0.75). I came up with the Illustration at 270 dps, the Sundial at 235 dps, and the Embrace at 222 dps. For the cooldowns on the Sundial and Embrace, I generalized to about 1/5 uptime (45sec CD + ~5sec to proc the next one). In reality it's probably even a bit lower than that. So it looks like the Illustration is still the best trinket available.

Just for the hell of it, I ran some numbers on the Extract too, and came up pretty disappointed. Not counting the trinket critting, I only calculated it to be 141 dps, far and away behind anything else available.

Id like to see you run that again with crit valued lower because it really is not equal to haste as a stat; at least for aff locks its not. If you are putting haste at 0.75 crit would be around 0.5 if not less.

• KingSpeedy · 12/11/08, 4:45 PM

intellect=0.33 spirit=0.55 spell_power=1.49 hit_rating=0.00 crit_rating=0.71 haste_rating=0.67

Those are the scaling values for my 55/0/16 build with my current gear from a simcraft I ran about 10 minutes ago. I've seen similar numbers with haste and crit hovering around the 0.7 mark but neither showing any clear advantage over the other.

marano · 12/11/08, 8:10 PM

Thanks for those nice numbers mate! Also thanks for the redirect to a very interesting thread.

From what I've read so far, it seems that the Dying Curse and the Illustration are still among the best trinkets available.

I didn't expect the Sundial do do more dps than the Embrace of the spider though. Especially because it has 98 spellpower.