The Mage Equivalent: The Destruction Warlock - Page 26

xaoc. · 01/19/09, 10:53 PM

Linking Simcraft #'s without plugging in your gear/optimal gear isnt exactly something we should be posting. There is gear that you have, gear that you will get, and gear that want/never drops (like tempest of casualraider)

As far as 28/43 vs 2/13/56, I don't even think pet survivability is an issue to be looked at, at least not for myself. Saph is the worst for the imp, and sarth to an extent but mainly I sac the imp so I don't have to bother with passive/follow. The biggest concern I deal with is FnB, UP, 3/5MD, and the 2/13/56 spec comparisons.. We are kinda jumping around in the forum right now, without really setting some things in stone. Someone smarter than me should make some scales of which spec is better where :P

FYI in raid settings im lifetaping 4-5 times which seems consistant to alot of guilds.. obviously guilds with alot more dps get to tap less.

supplicium · 01/19/09, 10:54 PM

Look on your mana regen, do you have mana back from a mana spring, and a water elemental?

Nezek · 01/19/09, 11:02 PM

yes.. getting mana regen from mana spring & water elemental.
the gear values are the ones that come as default values with simcraft, If I put in my values from the armory the numbers go higher actually

and thinking about it, tbh the playstyle of 0/20/51 and 2/13/56 is identical. there's no real dps difference in any probable situation, so yeah that comparison is becoming useless.

Viper007Bond · 01/20/09, 12:57 AM

Where can I download this SimCraft? Is it this one? simulationcraft - Google Code

supplicium · 01/20/09, 1:09 AM

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Where can I download this SimCraft? Is it this one? simulationcraft - Google Code

Yes it is.

Debby · 01/20/09, 1:40 AM

Just after getting a better Chaos Bolt at patch, we see results indicating that our ultimate destruction talent is preferred to be skipped? This is sad... I would really like to see 2/13/54 doing better than 0/20/51 but simulations say otherwise.

Blizzard decided to make our pets do significant (or at least not negligible ) % of our DPS. Which is fine imo, since we go away from the notorious 21/40 at TBC. But adding the kind of damage that cannot be avoided by avoidance, without letting us customize our pets like hunters do (resistances comes to mind) make the whole thing a little awkward.

So, we now are split to

1. Buff our pet more through demonology (like 20/51) AND getting DS to sacrifice it (can you see the contradiction here?)
2. Buff our pet with more destruction points (emp Imp), having Chaos bolt as another very good spell for damage (irrelevant to pet issue here, just mention it) BUT risking to lose or pet and with it, a good chunk of our DPS.

I would agree that this might be the way things would work, since if there was a perfect spec all people would use this, but I still feel that Bliz should have been more careful with their (fine) decision to let pet be a part of our dps.

Anyway, my question now... Which glyph will you sacrifice for conflagrate?

Robi · 01/20/09, 4:59 AM

If you are taking more than 17 points in demo you sould choose CoA/Imp/Conflag. At 2/13/56 immo will be better than imp (according to the various simcraft that were posted)

painphul · 01/20/09, 9:53 AM

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that we're going to be spending 6 points buffing our imp (Empowered Imp & Improved Imp) and not giving him a glyph at 3/16/56. Sounds crazy that immo will be doing more dmg, did losing unholy power gimp the imp that much?

Coming from a 0/30/41 build (shadowfury) I'm only seeing 5% dmg loss to the imp, but we're due to get better pet scaling from my understanding.

Anyone able to confirm that immo will in fact be better than imp glyph?

Faktion · 01/20/09, 10:03 AM

People keep referring to our imp not being able to stay alive, but there are only like 2 fights where my imp has a high chance of dieing. Those fights would be Saph and 4H. Just from reading everyones comments, they act like the pet dies every fight they are in. Also, what if your raid wipes after you use DG? Kind of screwed.

Oney · 01/20/09, 11:40 AM

Not sure if this has been touched on yet or not, but with the new Glyph of Conflagrate, what's the ideal rotation now?

Do we Conflag early in the rotation for Backdraft?

Something like:
CoA/Corr -> Immo -> Conflag -> Chaos Bolt -> Incin Spam (or 2x Backdrafted Soulfires then Incin spam if you're a weirdo) -> Conflag at <5s: while keeping CoA/Corr up?

Tinava · 01/20/09, 11:47 AM

So summing up: The debate now settles on F&B or Unholy Power, and what glyphs for each build.

I've not included F&B in these potential builds...obviously, it can be done as an option as well. I'm hoping a math wiz can help with its usefulness numberswise.

Here's my thoughts (no math, at work, and I'm terrible at math anyway):

20/51

Glyphs I would think are (as seen here) immo, imp, conflag. As you don't have the 2 points in CoA in this build, do you feel it still is necessary to have the glyph? This is another point of discussion, as previously, Agony as glyphed was mostly taken for its lineup with CB cooldown. Now it's a potential DPS increase.

Other possibility:

2/17/52

Changed Immo glyph to Agony since there are talent points into agony. Again, no F&B, some unholy power.

Thoughts? Feedback?

Debby · 01/20/09, 12:06 PM

I am not into maths as well but both specs seem ok. I don't know if omitting F&B is that good. I don't have simcraft on this pc but, man, it would be disgrace to have that useless talent if someone proves that buffing imp would be better.

On the other hand I feel reluctant to further buff a pet like the imp since losing it would mean I am screwed dps-wise. I try running some simcraft simulations and see what happens.

upperking · 01/20/09, 12:32 PM

This is my build I like most Demon-destro
Gives me High spellpower, Crit, and nice imp dps.
My spell power comes out to be 2300, HP 20,000, mana 18,000, crit 32% with tier7 gear.. raid buff I get 40% crit, 25,000 HP 19,000 mana, 2500 Spellpower..

supplicium · 01/20/09, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Debby

I am not into maths as well but both specs seem ok. I don't know if omitting F&B is that good. I don't have simcraft on this pc but, man, it would be disgrace to have that useless talent if someone proves that buffing imp would be better.

On the other hand I feel reluctant to further buff a pet like the imp since losing it would mean I am screwed dps-wise. I try running some simcraft simulations and see what happens.

I'm really getting sick of reporting you, PLEASE read back 2 pages and look at numbers that were posted for F&B vs UH, PLEASE read on the same page the look at glyphs, PLEASE read on that page the talk of rotations, and what pet to use. PLEASE sir, I ask this of you for your accounts sake let alone my sanity, It's only 2 pages back, and there are lots of pretty graphs.

Originally Posted by upperking

This is my build I like Demon-destro
Gives me High spellpower, Crit, and nice imp dps.
My spell power comes out to be 2300, HP 20,000, mana 18,000, crit 32% with tier7 gear.. raid buff I get 40% crit..

And what are you getting at? Your spec really needs a lot of work. 3/3 Nether prott when conflag and backdraft are empty, Going ISL over 4 pts in F&B? If you would take a similar spec with those changes your dps would increase greatly.

upperking · 01/20/09, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by supplicium

I'm really getting sick of reporting you, PLEASE read back 2 pages and look at numbers that were posted for F&B vs UH, PLEASE read on the same page the look at glyphs, PLEASE read on that page the talk of rotations, and what pet to use. PLEASE sir, I ask this of you for your accounts sake let alone my sanity, It's only 2 pages back, and there are lots of pretty graphs.

And what are you getting at? Your spec really needs a lot of work. 3/3 Nether prott when conflag and backdraft are empty, Going ISL over 4 pts in F&B? If you would take a similar spec with those changes your dps would increase greatly.

Sorry I had the wrong link, I edited it...
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...h=021213050203