The Mage Equivalent: The Destruction Warlock - Page 28

Debby · 01/20/09, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by supplicium

the idea is to get out of backdraft fast enough to cast immolate

Sigh, Dude I don't even know where to start.

just know that chaosbolt does a significant amount more damage a lot more, we aren't trying to deceive you.

I am in Europe. Patch is not here yet and I am anxious!

supplicium · 01/20/09, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Debby

I am in Europe. Patch is not here yet and I am anxious!

It's whats known as an undocumented change, it's about 400+ more base damage to the spell which is very nice my current self buffed average non crit Cb hits for about 4500

HordakIC · 01/20/09, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by supplicium

the idea is to get out of backdraft fast enough to cast immolate

Then in theory you could be casting Corr inside of Backdraft to take advantage of the GCD reduction if and only if it won't reduce Immo uptime, correct?

Morrigan · 01/20/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by HordakIC

Then in theory you could be casting Corr inside of Backdraft to take advantage of the GCD reduction if and only if it won't reduce Immo uptime, correct?

You could do that, but only to increase your corr uptime. There is no GCD reduction for spells that do not consume the backdraft charge.

rlmafield33 · 01/20/09, 6:36 PM

my CB is only hitting for around 1500... anyone else having it hit so weak?

Robi · 01/20/09, 6:37 PM

I got one question to the math freaks in here:

Using a F&B "proc" you won't get in 3 inci until immo runs out (you would need 1400haste or something. I provided some numbers a few pages before). So the question is if a third inci or a new immo during backdraft will be better. The DPCT of immo will be higher of course but mainly because of it's DoT component, but only the DD component gets the boost from the haste. Furthermore you will save more time with inci as immo will be most likely sub 1,0sec casttime when casted during backdraft (for me it's already like that and I do not even have 500haste).

Another question is when the inci damage is calculated. So if Immo is still on the target when you are starting to cast and it runs out, will inci get the bonusdamage?

€dit: ok damage of inci won't get the bonus of an immo that was on the target when the cast began, but which ran out.
With 1 or 2 other warlocks it would be possible to always have immo on the target...then it would clearly be inci which should be casted.

€dit2: The poster below me is right. I was only talking about backdraft. Else immo is of course the one that you should cast und inci is only filler when immo is ticking.

turturin · 01/20/09, 7:04 PM

Originally Posted by Robi

€dit: ok damage of inci won't get the bonus of an immo that was on the target when the cast began, but which ran out.
With 1 or 2 other warlocks it would be possible to always have immo on the target...then it would clearly be inci which should be casted.

Actually no. Immolate has a much higher DPCT than incinerate. Even with other locks keeping immolate up, you should always cast immolate if you won't clip your previous immolate by casting it.

Other locks keeping immolate up allow you to not worry about incinerate losing dps w/o immolate up in only two situations:
1. During a backdraft proc
2. If (cast time of immolate < current time left on your immolate < cast time of incinerate)

Perhaps this is what you intended to convey, but I did want to clarify in case it wasn't.

ElJoser · 01/20/09, 7:46 PM

I'm aware that this is kind of off topic, but I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere. I noticed there's been a change to Firestone. In addition to the crit chance and the increased damage by direct spells, it also reads "In addition, each attack has a chance to deal 116 to 174 additional fire damage"

This is a change I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere. Anyone know what the proc chances are? Does it scale with Molten Core? what are the actual mechanics (an additional damage source similar to lightweave, or just an added bonus damage to a spell?)

I went to the testing dummies with my recount and tried out the new glyph / rotation. My recount didn't pick up any additional sources of damage, so either this has a terrible proc rate, or it'll just be added onto spells

Trickykid · 01/20/09, 7:52 PM

Originally Posted by ElJoser

I'm aware that this is kind of off topic, but I didn't see it mentioned elsewhere. I noticed there's been a change to Firestone. In addition to the crit chance and the increased damage by direct spells, it also reads "In addition, each attack has a chance to deal 116 to 174 additional fire damage"

This is a change I hadn't seen mentioned elsewhere. Anyone know what the proc chances are? Does it scale with Molten Core? what are the actual mechanics (an additional damage source similar to lightweave, or just an added bonus damage to a spell?)

I went to the testing dummies with my recount and tried out the new glyph / rotation. My recount didn't pick up any additional sources of damage, so either this has a terrible proc rate, or it'll just be added onto spells

That's what the "old" firestone used to do, before they changed it to increase DD by 1% and have crit rate. I'm pretty sure it's actually had that effect this whole time (I noticed yellow damage while meleeing).

That said, if they were just fixing the tooltip, it likely just affects melee attacks. That would explain why you didn't see it on your recount -- try meleeing the dummy and see if it shows.

Pullo · 01/20/09, 9:15 PM

Originally Posted by supplicium

Ok, out of absolute boardome I ran some silly silly numbers through Sim craft to represent scaling over the next year of raiding, and no matter what I do, afflictionscales better than destro does, Infact, every other class seems to be scaling better than destro.

It appears, that Destruction will get worse compared to affliction the farther we go into +dmg +haste and + crit, I ramped up the sillyness every where from +300 to hit and crit, and +800 to spellmg, all the way up to haste cap or crit cap or both. No matter what I do, Affliction scales much better than destro is. Moonkins and Spriests pass us as well. Now will there be class changes between then and now, yes, does this scaling effect us now? No. Do the numbers I use represent any empirical data behind them? No. t8 could hugely benefit destro, or they could buff soulfire or something, but as it goes at the moment, Affliction truly is the better spec as far as possible dps.

I find this scaling simcraft very interesting. It would be great if you could share the data you found Supplicum. It's hard to tell at this point, but you have to figure they may have not itemized T8 as of yet. But with 3.08 live, that's what's on the table for them now.

I find it very discouraging that hybrids are outscaling locks, even if it's just in the destro tree (wasn't quite clear if this included surpassing affliction potential dps).

And while I don't think it's fair to criticize blizzard devs based on scaling for levels that aren't in the game yet, it should be noted, now that Ulduar is pretty much all that's on their table for the next few months, that they should take this sort of data into account so that this trend doesn't prevail when Ulduar goes live.

supplicium · 01/20/09, 9:21 PM

I deleted many of those runs but I will re do it tonight.

Shabaz · 01/20/09, 9:49 PM

Originally Posted by Pidge

I'm running into an issue with the new Conflag rotation in that there's a very noticeable gap between casting Immolate and the client registering Immolate is active on the target and allowing Conflagrate to be cast. Should I just cast an Incinerate inbetween, and how much of a DPS impact is that gong to be since it come up every two Conflagrates.

Im seeing the same issue on Bloodhoof in Naxx...very frustrating.

Krazen · 01/20/09, 9:53 PM

Originally Posted by turturin

Actually no. Immolate has a much higher DPCT than incinerate. Even with other locks keeping immolate up, you should always cast immolate if you won't clip your previous immolate by casting it.

Other locks keeping immolate up allow you to not worry about incinerate losing dps w/o immolate up in only two situations:
1. During a backdraft proc
2. If (cast time of immolate < current time left on your immolate < cast time of incinerate)

Perhaps this is what you intended to convey, but I did want to clarify in case it wasn't.

Not only does immolate have a higher DPCT, it does more raw damage for any realistic crit rate even if you're clipping the 1 second GCD.

There's no reason to sweat blowing backdraft charges on immolate, imo.

Burata · 01/20/09, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Shabaz

Im seeing the same issue on Bloodhoof in Naxx...very frustrating.

This has always been a problem, on rare occasions pre 3.0.8 I would try to conflag instantly upon immolate hitting and it wouldn't for a sec or so.

krilz · 01/21/09, 2:45 AM

Originally Posted by Trickykid

Why not? Only destruction spells eat charges.

I'm actually curious to this too. You said that you want to get out of Backdraft ASAP to cast Immo but you have also said to my knowledge that COA is OK to cast during BD. It really shouldn't matter that much whether you cast Corruption or not during BD, but feel free to elaborate.

As for the "Conflagrate not being available the first second", this is a bug (or what you wanna call it) that has been a problem for ages. My suggestion is that you cast Immolate and maybe Corruption or Life Tap afterwards before Conflagrating because that second you're spamming the button waiting for it happen is time thrown away.