Talon

That's the problem. I'm not buffing myself at all and with more Spdmg conflag is hitting for less. Its obvious its the set bonus just posted to see if anyone else notices a difference.

 

• Zakalwe

I'm trying to figure out why you're seeing a difference, and for that I need to know the exact numbers. It's very much *not* obvious that it's a simple case of the set bonus not being applied in one of the cases, because that would produce a much bigger difference.

 

• Zakalwe

Going with the assumption that you posted crit numbers instead of hit numbers, and that you have the +crit meta gem, the numbers actually line up perfectly:

4pcT9: (157 + 0.2 * 2459) * (1+0.06+0.3+0.1+0.1) * 4 * (1+0.15) * 2.09 = 9730

2pcT8: (157 + 0.2 * 2441) * (1+0.06+0.3+0.1) * 4 * (1+0.15+0.1) * 2.09 = 9844

If you look carefully, you'll spot the difference in the two formulae: Turns out the T9 bonus is additive with the immolate modifiers, while the T8 bonus is additive with the conflag modifiers (emberstorm). This means the T9 bonus is very slightly inferior to the T8 bonus for people with a standard destro talent distribution.

 

Talon

Ok that makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the help.

 

vision2

hmm I tested it again today and got the following numbers: (taken with fel armor + life tap / no buffs / debuffs on level 60 Dummy)


2x T8 --> 3295 Sp --> 5549 conflag
none --> 3381 Sp --> 5212 conflag
4x T9 --> 3284 Sp --> 5465 conflag
4x T9 --> 3301 Sp --> 5489 conflag

gues Zakalwe is right

 

coppertest

Hi all
Been reading this site for lots of help for all my toons. I am having issue's with my warlock I think.

Kinzoo - duskwood server

I figure I am geared pretty good, and have made the cookie cutter destruction build. I run the LT, CoE, immo,conflag, CB, spam incin rotation as per all my reading from sites. I watch my spells and refresh properly making sure not to clip and giving priorty to CB and conflag when they are ready.

On trash i usually do rain of fire because things die to fast to realy do nothing else when your in a group.

The issue i am having is say for example I do one of the wings in 10 nax, I end up with 2.8k dps. is this correct for my level of gear? I figure I should be doing more damage. One thing i notice that kills my dps is the trash as compared to just the Bosses. On the bosses I think I do pretty good on dps.

Another thing I notice people advertising 5k dps or 6k dps toons looking for group. I have noticed the names of these toons and when i am in a pug and actually run with them, I am higher on the damage charts than most of them. Which brings me to my other part of my question. I look at variuos locks when i run with them and compare gear, talent builds, gems ect...and watch there dps, if it really higher than mine i wonder how when they have lower gear than me. I do the correct rotation. So I go and test on the IF dummy and the highest I can maintain is around 3.9 - 4k on the dummy.

Am I missing some vital step that will bring my dps closer to the 4-5k mark on dps charts? as I have seen warlocks that can reach this during raid runs with similar gear.

Sorry for long post, but this is really puzzling me.

 

Clinkz

Haha I think we've found your problem. Socketing for Hit rating, and even worse, HIT/STAMINA gems while you're 5% over the cap, enchanting for hit & speccing hit.

points in suppression Alliance Horde
0 342 368
1 316 342
2 289 316
3 263 289

Out of this we conclude that your hit, if using 3points in Suppression should be 289, you're on 396.

Socketing should follow this rule:
A socket bonus that requires one yellow gem must be at least 4 hit rating, 4 spell power, 6 haste rating, 7 crit rating, 8 spirit or 23 int.
A socket bonus that requires one blue gem must be at least 5 hit rating, 6 spell power, 8 haste rating, 10 crit rating, 11 spirit or 32 int.
If it is less than that, just socket a red epic gem. If it is more than one slot, simply add the numbers above for each slot.

 

Johnneke

I've unfortunately been following these points at first aswell because I have seen them passing by. These values are however not correctly anymore and should to be perfectly correct be determined on a per user base depending on there gear level.

Running kenzoo through simcraft gives me the following scale values:
Scale Factors:
Kinzoo Sta=0.00 Int=0.35 Spi=1.01 SP=1.43 Hit=0.22 Crit=0.62 Haste=1.07 Lag=0.00

Red gem: 23*1.43 = 32.89
Yellow gem: 12*1.43 + 10*1.07 = 27.86
Blue gem: 12*1.43 + 10*1.01 = 27.26

So for a yellow gem the bonus must be worth more then 5.03dps (or 3.51SP, 4.98Spi, 4.7Haste, 8.1Crit, other socket bonuses and you should put it a red gem)
For a blue gem the bonus must be worth more then 5.63dps (or 3.9SP, 5.5Spi, 5.2Haste, 9.0Crit, other socket bonuses and you should put in a red gem.)

For some stats these are minor differences but for other stats huge, hit is no good socket bonus for you to gem for, and spirit is good alot more faster then Clinkz mentioned. These differences become bigger depending on gear, for my own gear set a blue gem is even worth more then a yellow one..

Tip: Search for Rhadatip on Curse, you can input the scaling values I gave you through /rt sv and then you can run the Rhadatip gem optimizer and it will tell you how you should gem it for maximum dps.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/missaar.png

 

coppertest

Thanks for quick reply.

About my hit rating, I read somewhere that for destruction my cap is 486, and I have also read that it is the 290 you guys say. I was around 200 for the longest time, but just recently worked on my hit rating as a warlock of lesser gear was way above me in dps in a dungeon run. He was destruction and said i am way lower because of my hit rating..so I upped it to as much as i could right now trying to reach that 480 mark.

So is it 290 or 480? that is why I get confused so much. I also realize that if I am not gemming for hit, then i'll do all spellpower. As for that one green hit/stamina gem...there was no other choice in the AH at the time I was gemming for hit rating.

If it is in fact 290 hit rating, will doing all spellpower gemming make that much difference in my dps? like I said from around 2.8k average dps to over the 4k mark in dungeon or raid situations?


Thanks and if it is my hit cap is 290 i'll regem and test and let you guys know the results.

 

coppertest

One quick note before tomorrow morning's Ulduar 10 run. i just did the test dummy in IF with regemmed and hit rating of 296 now, all other went to spellpower of some sort gems. On the test dummy it was still 3.9k dps is all I can muster, I hope in the raid tomorrow i notice a diference as this is getting costly always regeming and enchanting as per reading these forumns lol.

 

Warlocomotif

There is nothing that will improve your performance as much as a real desire to. What I mean by that is not a willingness to do what people suggest, but actually a drive (from within yourself) to be the best you can be. As for the dummy, it didn't have improved Faerie Fire / Misery, and as a result your DPS on it will be lower. On a proper raid target however it should be higher.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

 

Johnneke

You need to have 17% hit on bosses to stop spells from getting missed. However a Shadow Priest or Boomkin add a 3%hit debuff to the boss, and a Draenei in your group gives you another 1%hit from his Heroic Presence buff. So you should have 13%hit from gear when grouped with a Draenei, 14% when not. This is for a standard 0/13/58 build. By switching points to Suppression you can go as low as 10% hit from gear (3/3 Suppression = 3%hit)

Pure regemming wont up your dps by this much (but it certainly doesnt hurt you), alot depends on your reaction times. Again if your not in to theorycrafting check out Rhadatip with the values I provided you and run the gem optimizer, it will do the calculations ingame for you looking at socket bonuses and tell you which gems you should put in it, it also allows you to set a hit percentage you want to aim for (for me this is 13% with 0/13/58, maybe for you this is 10 or 13%, if your not always grouped with a draenei check your raid and ask if it's possible to get one in each dps group). You cant go wrong this way.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/missaar.png

 

Malevolance

Hi All,

Maybe some one can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong. Malevolance, Blackhand server, alliance.

I'm using a standard destro spec of 0/13/58. Currently I'm easily hit capped, 2968 spell power with just fel armor on, 26.27 crit and 581 haste rating. Rotation (if no boomkin or ele shamen) starts with LT, Elements (otherwise CoD), imm, conflag, CB, Incinerate. On a boss level test dummy I can hit 4600 - 4800 dps. But in a raid setting I can only muster 3700 in 10 man and 4k in 25 man where other classes like rogues, pallys and hunters are easily hitting 6k.

I understand movement and having to switch targets can lower dps, but being 4-6% behind the leading damage dealer in overall damage seems a little unacceptable.

With my spell rotation, once I hit immolate, conflag, CB, I'll throw 3 incinerates, refresh immolate before it's completed so that it hits just as my conflag cd is up so that i'm not using immolate while backdraft procs (since it's a 1.27 cast time anyway) but instead, using it that reduced cast time on CB and Incinerate. Is it better to just hit confag when it's up rather then refreshing immolate prior to the cd? Should I not worry about what spells i'm gonna cast while i have that 30% less cast time, wether it's gonna be a spell with a short cast time to begin with like imm or not?

As far as my gear, should I be gemming for socket bonuses where instead I have ignored most of them and just put in 39sp or 23sp gems?

If any one has some advice, I sure would be greatful. Of course, my dps goes up a bit with a boomkin and or ele shammen in the raid, but still conciderably lower then any melee class. I'm just not sure what I can be doing better or differently to at least be compative with the other classes in a raid.

 

Voxx

Ignore backdraft procs, you're losing far more dps by clipping Immolate ticks than you are gaining by putting longer cast spells on backdraft.

 

Johnneke

Hello Malevolance,

From your information it seems you are indeed doing some things wrong. You should for instance indeed be doing conflag as soon as it is off cd, even if that means that you have to cast immolate while under the effect. The same rule applies to Chaos Bolt. Wether there is a elemental shaman in the raid or not shouldnt change anything regarding your rotation, CoD when there is a boomkin or unholy death knight or another Warlock applying it, CoE when none of the other rules apply.

Without a log from your performance it's hard to give further input but things you can look at are:
- Am I casting corruption while movement is involved, you should
- Am I casting CoA if the boss has less then 1min to live
- Are you using keybindings instead of clicking (it's really needed if you want to properly cast spells while moving)
- Are you clipping your immolate? Make sure you never cast immolate to early, it should be cast ASAP but you dont want to loose the last tick.
- Are you refreshing your LT buff whenever needed?
- CoD after hitting Conflagrate for a chance of applying it under the effect of Pyroclasm (+6% damage)

As for your gear there is alot to improve still, you have very good gear but have to much hit, since you are on alliance you should try to make sure your rl provides a draenei for all your dps groups since it's another 1% hit. Together with the 3% a boomkin/shadow priest gives you this means you only need 13% hit while you have 19+%, this is where you lose most your dps since it's a wasted stat. I suggest you start by swapping the following items that are available outside raiding: Merlin's Robe, Bejeweled Wizard's Bracers & Band of the Invoker. Another big problem with your gear seems is how you are undermining the value of spirit, at your gear level you should be having alot more since it's actually a better stat then crit and almost as good as haste aswell. You are also indeed missing out on some very valuable socketbonuses which would be a dps increase, also you need the Chaotic Skyfire Diamond meta, it's alot better.

To make sure you in the future make better gear choices I advise you to use a addon like Rhadatip, in Rhadatip you can enter your scaling values that I will provide you (you can also get them yourself within simcraft) and you can enter your hit goal, which should be 13%.

I'll now run you through simcraft with your original profile and with a modified profile with correct gemming and another with the proposed new items to give you a sense of how much your missing out on.

Your original character profile:
Profiler - Wowhead
Player: Malevolance human warlock destruction 80
DPS: 7728.7 Error=9.9 Range=519 DPR=23.5 RPS=329.2/256.4 (mana)

Here is a wowhead profile for your character how you should have gemmed:
Profiler - Wowhead
Player: Malevolance_gems human warlock destruction 80
DPS: 7964.6 Error=10.8 Range=566 DPR=24.0 RPS=331.9/258.9 (mana)

Here is a profile with the replaced items I suggested (Also changed robe enchant to Major Spirit):
Profiler - Wowhead
Player: Malevolance_gemsgear human warlock destruction 80
DPS: 8305.0 Error=11.7 Range=634 DPR=24.3 RPS=341.7/269.0 (mana)

Your scaling values to input in Rhadatip to help you optimize gear/gems:
Weights : Sta=0.0000 Int=0.3627 Spi=1.0484 SP=1.5747 Hit=0.0000 Crit=0.7266 Haste=1.1282
Wowhead : Items - World of Warcraft

As you can see, correctly gemming your gear would already be 240 more dps for you (in a patchwerk style fight), switching the proposed items and correctly gemming is almost 600 dps more in a patchwerk style fight then you are currently achieving. Big improvements

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/missaar.png

 

joe_in_hell

You seem to doo mainly 10 man raids, so perhaps 17% Hit is ok for you - i have neither a Moonkin nor a Spriest in my 10 man, so I have to get the Hit by myself.
You are specced into Improved Soulleech, so you should not use Glyph of Life Tap. Glyph of immolate is better for your dps, as you do not need to LT often anyway.

 

exog

The simulationcraft thread shows the 0.13.58 specc with both Glyph of lifetap and the replenishment talents. It also simulates a 98% uptime on the lifetap buff... So if regular lifetaps(1 pr 40s) are enough to keep sufficient mana, maybe the 2 points in Imp Soul Leech should be spent elsewhere...

 

Johnneke

This is incorrect information.

Here is simcraft result when switching to immolate glyph on the profile linked above that contains the correct gemming. (Lifetap was 7965 dps)

Player: Malevolance_gemsimmo human warlock destruction 80
DPS: 7912.8 Error=11.1 Range=623 DPR=23.8 RPS=332.9/257.1 (mana)

So please do not spread incorrect information around, now Malevolance has around 300 spirit less then the usual warlock at his gear level, the difference in dps will only increase. Imp Soul Leech doesnt change anything about the power of the life tap glyph, you should just life tap to keep the buff up wether you need the mana or not.

I've just done the simcrafting for myself, I have 980 spirit raid buffed. With imp soul leech I need to life tap once every 41s, just for the buff. Without imp soul leech I need to life tap once every 27.1s to keep mana. Obviously this depends on fight length and movement but still. On a 6min patchwerk style fight having imp soul leech and life tap glyph is for me 86dps more then not having imp soul leech and life tap glyph. It's obvious that the lower your spirit is the more benefit you have from having imp soul leech. I'm not sure if you can reach a point where imp soul leech doesnt equal a dps gain.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/missaar.png

 

wikke

The point at which imp soul leech does lower dps is when you enter a real encounter and stop fighting Patchwerk.

 

Johnneke

I have also ran my own character through simcraft with the Helter Skelter profile (which simulates movement and a more real setting) on a 300s fight. So your right, there is absolutely no gain for me in imp soul leech it seems on most fights. and if you can manage to run and cast shadowfury it's actually a dps increase. So I stand corrected.

With imp soul leech: 6510 dps
Without: 6510 dps (However if you can use Shadowfury while moving dps rises to 6696 dps)

I get similar results for people with lower spirit. So I hereby stand corrected.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...ks/missaar.png

 

angaroth

If you use shadowfury while moving you are too close. The whole lifetap/ISL thing really depends on the kinds of fights you are doing and how good the dps is in your raid (ie how long the fights last and how long you bounce off zero). For me my best performance over the course of an entire week comes from cookie cutter and using R1 life taps if I don't need the mana.

 

Antvg

Don't forget that ISL also buffs your raid, while Shadowfury being very fight-specific spell.

 

Aribel

Hi All,

I seem to be having some issues with my warlock as of late. I've been reading this thread for quite some time and while it helps, I'm fairly sure I'm still missing something. My warlock is Aribel, Farstriders, Horde

I'm using a destro spec of 0/14/57. Currently I'm well over hit capped without having any hit gems/enchants for it and I'm honestly not sure what to do about this. I'm at 2581 bonus damage (with Fel Armor), 23.83% crit and 260 haste rating. I've talked to a few locks on my server and they seem to add Corruption into their rotation and I've been trying that out. Currently I'm doing LT > CoE > Corruption > Immolate > Conflagerate >Chaos Bolt > Filling with Incinerate, then casting Conflagerate and Chaos Bolt as soon as they are up. I'm also maintaining the buff from LT and re-casting DoTs as they are wearing off (without clipping them). Should I be using Corruption in my general rotation or does this need to be removed? Also, I've been redoing my gems to find a balance between crit and haste and am wondering if its worth it at all to gem for crit or to just get all haste or sp/haste gems. I've been sticking with gems to get socket bonuses, but would it be better to give up those little bonuses to get more out of the gems? On a boss level test dummy, I can hit around 3.5-4k dps but still feel I should be above this as I have hit 4.5k in raid settings, though it is not consistent.

Any help you can give me would be super appreciated, I've been respecing and changing gems for days and I'm not sure where exactly I'm going wrong.

 

angaroth

You want the Chaotic Skyflare meta, and you do not want to gem for crit at all otherwise. Then you want to get 2pc t9 (gloves and shoulders are the cheapest) - 232 if you can't get the tokens. 2pc t9 bonus is worth going down from those 245 shoulders. And 2pc t8 with emblems ASAP.

As for corruption, the standard seems to be to make sure you throw it up if you are moving otherwise I would not bother.

Check out a mod called event horizon - it gives you a nice line that shows when you can start casting your next immolate without clipping and minimizing downtime. Just make sure that you are always casting, no gaps.

Other than that you just need to get into raids for gear and practice - emblems and heroics will only take you so far. Which might be a catch 22, don't know what your situation is.

 

Upsilon

I've been reading the forums for a while, I try not to post but need to ask this question.

Presuming that the other two Glyph slots are Conflag and Immolate, regardless of your Destruction raiding spec (ISL vs Supression) surely Glyph of Life Tap is better than Incinerate? I personally keep the Life Tap buff up all the time, so I constantly recieve 150+ SP, now surely that buff is better than 5% more Incinerate damage?

I've seen the numbers posted on this thread and the Glyph Choice thread, I'm just wondering why people would think it is better? A constant 150 SP buff vs 5% more damage from 1 of 4(5?). If I am missing something can you clear it up please.