The Mage Equivalent: The Destruction Warlock - Page 63

Drazzak · 05/28/09, 9:06 AM

Been an afflock forever but last night decided to see what all the destro hooplah is about. After setting the spec to 2/13/56 (14.7% hit - so with two points in supp within 0.3% of hit cap) I did some rotation testing against the heroic 80 dummy in SW.

Found this to be an ideal rotation:
Imm -> Conf -> 4x Incin -> CB

Rinse and repeat. By the time the CB is cast the Imm has about 1 second remaining so it fizzles out just ahead of being refreshed. Conf comes off CD right as Imm hits so it's ready to pop again immediately. CB also comes off CD just when it should so there is no waiting.

Actually kind of amazed with the performance. Against the dummy I got about 600 dps higher with this destro build + imp than I did with my standard afflic build + succy. And that's actually without casting CoE or CoD for the extra bang.

Ran H.CoS + H.HoL with guildies and they noticed the higher DPS. So now I'm officially a fire mage with lifetap.

Now to go find some crit gear to push these numbers even higher. What's the baseline %crit (unbuffed) I should shoot for?

Tinava · 05/28/09, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by Warelle

I think it's not advised to do that because of the bug/feature ("A more powerfull spell is already active"). You risk not refreshing your Immolate.

I think they fixed the "bug/feature" though in this last patch -- at least, I've been stupid and clipped immolate a couple times, and the immolate reapplied.

duhwhat · 05/28/09, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by Drazzak

Now to go find some crit gear to push these numbers even higher. What's the baseline %crit (unbuffed) I should shoot for?

Regarding your rotation: please use conflag and CB on cooldown rather than trying for an arbitratry 4x Incinerate, so that CB will be cast more often and may benefit from Backdraft. Regarding your gear, you'll find that CB builds benefit much more from haste than from crit on your way to compiling an optimal gear set. There are some preliminary BiS sets listed in the latter pages of the simcraft thread, and Zakalwe may already have updated his OP to incorporate these.

Demi9OD · 05/28/09, 9:48 AM

Originally Posted by Feihcretsam

I always clip the immolate and then cast CB, this works out the best for me. But at the level of haste that I have (around 400-450) it comes out just right with the refreshing immolate + recasting CB right when it is off cooldown

I cast: Immo -> conflag -> CB -> inc, inc, inc and then conflag when it is off cooldown. The re-applying of immolate and the off cooldown coming of CB come almost at the same time like this.

That just does not seem optimal. If you clip the immolate and re-cast Chaos Bolt just afterwords, it will be coming off cooldown at the same time during your next rotation, and you will need to clip Immo again. I do not think the extra damage from every Chaos Bolt with F&B will make up for every single immolate ticking 4 times instead of 5. I'm beginning to just work corruption into my rotation near the end of an Immolate if I cannot yet refresh without clipping.

Freakz0r · 05/28/09, 6:20 PM

Does F&B work on other warlocks' immolate? If so then there shouldnt be a need to clip it.

Heeno · 05/28/09, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Freakz0r

Does F&B work on other warlocks' immolate? If so then there shouldnt be a need to clip it.

No, F&B only boosts incinerate with your own immolate. The damage is however calculated at the end of your chaos bolt/incinerate cast, so if your immolate falls off during the travel time of an incinerate, it still picks up the F&B bonus. The only case where another warlock's immolate affects incinerate is for the normal additional damage for incinerate.

vecky · 05/29/09, 6:33 AM

I've always been affliction, and focused on SPower pretty much exclusively.

Now that I'm destro, I need to take into account how much relative dps is gained by a point of Haste, Crit, SPower when judging if upgrades are actually upgrades. And choosing Gems, of course.

Or is the guideline to get to XX% haste, the XX% crit, then fill out with SPower?

I apologise if there is already a writeup on this, but I kind of gave up searching, as most of what I found is waay out of date.

Which "Layman-friendly" sites are people using for theorycrafting? I used to use maxdps.. but it still refers to the destro rotation as CoA, SB, SB, SB...

LS-Tya · 05/29/09, 6:56 AM

Originally Posted by vecky

I've always been affliction, and focused on SPower pretty much exclusively.

Now that I'm destro, I need to take into account how much relative dps is gained by a point of Haste, Crit, SPower when judging if upgrades are actually upgrades. And choosing Gems, of course.

Or is the guideline to get to XX% haste, the XX% crit, then fill out with SPower?

I apologise if there is already a writeup on this, but I kind of gave up searching, as most of what I found is waay out of date.

Which "Layman-friendly" sites are people using for theorycrafting? I used to use maxdps.. but it still refers to the destro rotation as CoA, SB, SB, SB...

Thanks
Vecky

Warlock_T8_00_13_58 Sta=0.00 Int=0.56 Spi=0.75 SP=1.55 Hit=3.27 Crit=1.01 Haste=1.52

From the simcraft thread.

Similar to affliction, you'll be wanting to get hit capped, followed by spellpower stacking. There's no need to wait until you get x% crit and y% haste. Favour haste gear as preference, and spirit gear least. Gem choices should always be 19 spellpower in red, 9 spellpower/8 haste in yellow and 9 spellpower/8 spirit in blue.

vecky · 05/29/09, 7:32 AM

Thanks very much, Tya!

I never noticed the "Scale Factors" section in the simcraft thread - it's exactly what I'm looking for.

Diogenetic · 05/29/09, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by LS-Tya

Gem choices should always be 19 spellpower in red, 9 spellpower/8 haste in yellow and 9 spellpower/8 spirit in blue.

Quick addendum to this; after meta reqs are met, it is actually better to gem 19sp in ALL sockets, aside from
those with high sp socket bonuses.

Diogi · 05/29/09, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by LS-Tya

Warlock_T8_00_13_58 Sta=0.00 Int=0.56 Spi=0.75 SP=1.55 Hit=3.27 Crit=1.01 Haste=1.52

From the simcraft thread.

Similar to affliction, you'll be wanting to get hit capped, followed by spellpower stacking. There's no need to wait until you get x% crit and y% haste. Favour haste gear as preference, and spirit gear least. Gem choices should always be 19 spellpower in red, 9 spellpower/8 haste in yellow and 9 spellpower/8 spirit in blue.

When did the scale factors change? I just checked and your information is correct, but a week or so ago int was worth .63, spirit was worth .83, crit was .99, and haste was only worth 1.32

Simaril · 05/29/09, 1:42 PM

Warlock_T8_00_13_58 Sta=0.00 Int=0.56 Spi=0.75 SP=1.55 Hit=3.27 Crit=1.01 Haste=1.52

The value for haste seems really high. Is haste really that valuable now?!?

Eeks · 05/29/09, 4:10 PM

The reason for haste scaling being so high is the relatively low amount of haste in their best in slot gear set.

Feihcretsam · 05/30/09, 5:47 AM

Originally Posted by Demi9OD

That just does not seem optimal. If you clip the immolate and re-cast Chaos Bolt just afterwords, it will be coming off cooldown at the same time during your next rotation, and you will need to clip Immo again. I do not think the extra damage from every Chaos Bolt with F&B will make up for every single immolate ticking 4 times instead of 5. I'm beginning to just work corruption into my rotation near the end of an Immolate if I cannot yet refresh without clipping.

Did you get any experiences with this so far?

Last night a warlock with the same spec out dpsed me, something which rarely happens. His gear was slightly better, but after scanning recount (no WWS taken) I noticed he had 36 ticks of corruption done on that specific fight. So when CB comes off cooldown riiight before immolate ends, is it wise to:

1. Cast the CB without immolate on the boss
2. Clip the immolate, cast CB
3. Cast corruption, re-apply immolate, cast CB

I would lean towards option 3, however this includes CB being off cooldown for 2 seconds without recasting it. But I guess the corruption makes up for the loss of that dps? I am still in 2pt7 btw, so corruption also procs the set bonus.

And, is CoD always better then CoA? I noticed some locks still use CoA.

Freakz0r · 05/30/09, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by Heeno

No, F&B only boosts incinerate with your own immolate. The damage is however calculated at the end of your chaos bolt/incinerate cast, so if your immolate falls off during the travel time of an incinerate, it still picks up the F&B bonus. The only case where another warlock's immolate affects incinerate is for the normal additional damage for incinerate.

Im pretty sure thats not the case, I just tested it and it does work with other warlock's immolate in your party atleast.
Tested with 4casts on the lvl80 dummies with chaosbolt to avoid the static boost to incinerate from immolate.
Dummy A has another warlock's immolate and my COE :
Hit 1 6170
Hit 2 6114

Dummy B had only my COE :
Hit 1 4939
Hit 2 5230

Not enough samples maybe yes but the difference is big enough to confirm. Please re-check.
Also i made sure that i had no external buffs other than my stone, fel armor, Illustration bonus SP dropped before the next CB was off cd so it didnt count either