Downed our first 25 man 3D kill on Sunday night with my VW tanking. I actually think it's easier on the raid using the blueberry as opposed to a real tank. YOU HAVE TO BE THE MAN. You can easily cause many many wipes.

Key things:
1. Know how to get the pull off correctly and the right original VW position. When you have VW where you want him BE SURE TO HIT STAY.
2. Make sure VW is only getting hit by 1 set of flame walls and that when he does get hit you are in a state of health funneling.
3. Learn how to reposition after knockbacks. If you had him on the 'Hold' Position in the correct spot previously, immediately hit the passive button after he gets knockbacked. He will walk back to place. Once back in position tell him to attack again.
4. On the 3rd drake tell him to stop attacking. I forget what the debuff is but VW will start taking considerable damage if he is attacking.
5. Don't die.
6. Health funnel as much as possible while keeping Imp CoW and corruption up.

Scaling was reduced from 60% to 10%. And while this does nerf him quite a bit, given how little damage he takes from AOE, and how much resist he can have passively while retaining this level of HP, he is still a viable tank for this encounter as he reduces how much burst is going on. Healing is simply less forgiving, but more predictable.

They simply nerfed his capacity to tank in the future, not his capacity to tank now.

Pets and Sartharion.

I'm having a issues with what pet to use currently, the guild i'm in is battling with OS10 3D and i want to do the best DPS possible. The problem is it's hard to manage Affliction and watch my pet at the same time, normally i have the felhunter set on passive and just use dark pact on him while maintaining the spirit buff (no Disc priest)

Any tips would be really helpful

I had a problem with pet dying too so I handled like: pet on passive, I order the attack. On every lava wave I pull it to me, when it passed order to attack again. I'm staying kinda close to mele too so I can get it out of the fissure. So far works good

My pet of choice for that fight is usually the imp, (although it really doesn't matter.) The quick phase shift allows for a little bit of sloppiness on your part, without getting punished for it.

The key is putting it on passive (and follow) as soon as you hear Sarthiron announce the incoming flame wall. Upon hearing this, putting him on passive allows enough time to have him avoid getting hit.

I found very easy to manage my pet at any time when I binded my pet movements to my mouse scroll wheel.
Set Pet-Atack to scroll up and Pet-Follow to scroll down, and keep him on passive.

You will play like you never did before.

Thats actually quite a good idea I use the default ctrl-1 etc but it's a bit of a pain.

WIll use felhunter with this macro i think!

is imp afected by haste?
fire bolt is 2.5 second cast. you can get this time down 0.5 seconds with Demonic power wich result on a 2 second cast.
if we have 20% haste, does it make that fire bolt become 1.6 seconds cast?

can we make somehow this cast faster?

Hey guys, I need a bit of a point in the right direction. My guild wants me to tank 3D10man and I don't have a stam set. I do have 2pces of Deadly (Chest and Legs) however. But I'm guessing that won't cut it and without having the blue stam trinket, ring, etc I am going to need the full Glacial set?


Basically, I have a couple of days to put together a suitable stam set to tank the encounter. I am never opposed to doing my own homework, so if there is a compiled list or specific thread somewhere I dont know about please just point to it and I'll take it from there.

100% not needed with a decent healer. You could do this (for 10 man) in full pve gear. I tossed some pvp gear on because I used a disc priest which isn't as good at reactive healing as say a paladin or holy priest, but if you have decent heals coming through full pve gear will be fine.

Great - and one more question. Regem and re-nchant PvE gear or just roll with it as is?

I'm assuming regem and enchant?

I can answer some of that. On Malygos, if the sparks are killed properly and your tank is positioning properly succy should get the sparks just like you. The sparks should be killed right in the center with the tank moving in a circle just around you in the center so all casters and melee get the effects. However, if for some reason this is not the case, then I presume your Imp would be the better option.

Re: Heigan - it is the tank's responsibility, sure, but even great tanks will get a little sloppy sometimes on this fight while you're just blowin n goin through Naxx. When our Warrior MT is doing it I just leave em in - but when our other tanks are doing it I micromanage. Nevertheless, this is a good fight to bring out your Inferno in the event your pet goes down.

Eh... For 10man, a stamina set is pretty ideal. Your VW is only going to buff to about 50k in a standard PVE gear setup. It's not the Firewall dmg or Lava stuff that's worrisome, it's the fact pets have zero defense and can be crit. Just did it last night. VW had 91k and between a Holy Priest (admittedly kinda sucky) and a Restro Druid the VW still got pretty low due to crits and melee stuff. The Pally add tank said he had to throw on a bubble or something at one point. I doubt it was our healers not being able to heal, but more the incoming damage from Sarth itself (minus Breaths).

If your guild wants you to do this, I'd advise to have them also be helping get all the mats and such together for the Frost stamina gear too. I used a tanking cloak and ring from the badge vendor and stamina gems in my full PvP gear. Also, DPS the first drake then begin the channeling after that's dead. While you're not there for dps (and will have issues simply getting dots up with the whopping ~98 hit) it can help. Biggie is getting that drake down before the 2nd egg set is hatched, but that's a pretty much given even doing it normally with a real tank. Oh, another thing to watch out for. Sarth goes Immune to magic attacks when I think Shadron's acolyte spawns. This really messes with Torment and TPS for the VW. Your healer should be doing all they can to drop threat as much as possible, but anyways kill Shadron's acolyte in the portal and this will be a non issue.

And don't fret the pull. If you're staring directly at Sarth (ZoneOut behind you), look to your left. Right across the lava there's a little tip on the rocks where you can put your VW. Place it right on the edge of that so it's not getting lava damage and then have your drake tank pull. MD Sarth right as it gets to horizontal to where the VW is and it'll align pretty well. VW may still get thrown in the lava but your healers will thank you for the positioning later on.

VW tanked Sarth 3D 10-man.

THis is NOT for the feign of heart. This is not easy or cheap. But...it is fun.

So, you have a few weeks left to try it. Here are some detailed instruction.

1) Gear. Cost about 1500g on my server (i had a lt of mats too). All the Glacial Patterns and Hateful pieces I bought with all my Valour Emblems (that had no other use.) I enchanted everything with Stam (yes, not cheap). I bought from the AH a Green Wand with Stam and A Stam ring with two gem slots. I made the JC Stam ring. As a JC, I put 3 +41 stam gems and all the rest were +24 stam. That is the ONLY attribute you need for the fight. I also made the Stam Figurine as a JC. I did not get the Staff from Naxx or trinket from AN, but that could be helpful. I had, unbuffed 50K health on my VW.I was sitting at about 36K.

1.5) Talents - Frialty, 2/2 healthstones and then down the demon tree. Glyphs:
You need Health funnel and VW Glyph (VERY IMPORTANT). You will need to resummon the VW after glyphing. Interestingly, if you glyph after summon, the VW doesnt get the benefit.

2) Group Make up. You need three healers. Would be nice to have two Tank healers (pally) and a raid healer. You need a healer just for you and the VW. The DPS need to be awesome. Very high DPS needed and more importantly, environmentally smart. Any dead will make the raid unsuccessful. Hunter is VERY helpful for MD.

3) Positioning: This is important. If you are looking at sarth while standing on his island - the optimal tank spot for your VW is ACROSS the lava river on your left. At that spot, your VW will not be moved by the waves. At that spot Sarth will Flame Breath away from the raid. And at that spot, he is easily in range and you can easily manage the lava waves yourself. Make VW STAY there and come back to the raid.

3.5 - Get all your raid buffs (fort, MoTW, Kinds, food, etc...). My VW, buffed (without DE) was at 71K. With DE - 86k.

4) Pull. If you have a hunter, you are set. Otherwise, still can be done with a tank. Tank can pull, he runs in a STRAIGHT line from sarth, into lave river right to VW. As Tank is running, you are running around Sarth so that you can watch the moment the tank reaches VW. At that moment, Attack and hit DE for threat buff. NO ONE DPS Sarth except VW until all drakes are down. Sarth should be positioned so that he is more or less perpendicular to the island. His head is at the VW, away from you. His tail is the only thing on the island.

4.5) Action Buttons: Of course, personal preference. I had LT, COW, HF, DE, Meta, Inc.... all on one bar.

5) How to tank. First - Keep CoW up on Sarth - you will need to cast 2-3 times in the fight. The best place to stand is to the left of Sarth. That is at the very corner of his island. There half of the Lava waves will completely miss you (the ones that are forming behind you as you are facing VW). The other half will form right in front of you and you can easily see in time to move. In that case, run behind him to the safe spot to his right. You may get tail swiped. Not a big deal.
Health Funnel up at all times! This isnt to give him health, but to decrease the damage done to him. Pop Meta whenever it is up - you will give VW more health and you will not get stunned by tail swip or lava. SAVE DE for when people get in trouble. If your healer gets adds on him - DE until the tank can pull them off. So best to pop when needed instead of popping whenever up. Watch VW health - if drops below 30K pop it. If your healer takes adds - you will quickly wipe if the add tank doesnt pull them off. Must call it in vent.

So, in recap...you will need to go from Sarth's left to right side depending on where the last Lava was (really not that much movement). Keep HF up. Pop Meta and CoW. Pop DE when adds are on Healers, or VW takes a few unlucky crits in succession. Oh, yea, dont forget about Void Zones. They should be easy.

6) you are not a DPS. Dont try. no need. The only time to dps was when all the drakes were down and everyone was dpsing sarth. I just spammed Inc. Really doesnt matter. My dps was crap.

7) Be Patient. This isnt easy. You will need to practice positioning and pull. You will need top notch DPS. Raid went in the portal only in the end. Make sure a tank is still outside portal for adds - or you will die. If you get two sets of Whelps - you probably will die and indicates that you dont have enough DPS. But it is possible to recover with two sets of adds, just not easy.


I hope that Blizz reconsidered the nerf to the VW. This really takes skill. There is no reason why VW shouldnt be able to tank. We had to gear and spec for it just like any other tank. And the use is extremely limited.

Do not pop meta whenever it is up. It IS a Oh crap button as it gives your VW a considerable amount of armor.

You should also be using Fel armor and armor consumables.

10 man doesnt hit nearly as hard as 25 man so I imagine you only need the frost set + pvp gear with stam gems.

Get a holydin and you're set.

Have him stop attacking when there is the debuff during 3rd drake where doing dmg to sarth hurts you.

Ok, i am slightly confused. I hit 80 two weeks ago and just respeced Affliction from Demonology. I've been using my Felhunter, but the more i read here the more i found the answer to my question went from felhunter to imp. so what one is the best demon to use in raids?

Until 3.1, if you don't have a discipline priest, it's nice to have the fel hunter for the spirit buff. If you do have a disc priest, succubus will do more damage. After 3.1, all priests will have divine spirit as a base spell so succubus would be the pet of choice for affliction, while using your doomguard and infernals as needed.

What's the protocol for using Inferals on raids like Naxx? Are there only certain fights that we should be summoning it?

Given its cooldown, you will most likely only be able to summon it once (maybe twice) per wing. The idea is to summon him when you know there is 1 minute of fight left, and/or when it can benefit from Bloodlust. Try to avoid using it when you can't aoe (see Spore Loser) or when it will likely die fast (like during Heigan's Dance), but apart from that it's up to you.

What physical actions do you take to control your pets on unfriendly fights like Heigan, Sarth, Sapph, &c?

Do you bind pet recall to movement keys and pet attack to spell keys with macros?
Do nothing and simply pay close attention to pet health/pet AoE damaging graphics and use the default keybindings/buttons?
Use an imp on the melee-unfriendly fights?
Something else?
Let the little bugger die and sacrifice the (( too many )) seconds it takes to resummon it?

mouse wheel up = pet attack
mouse wheel down = pet retreat
f3 = health funnel

I've got my pet right next to my health bar, so it's easy to see. also, i show my pet's target in my UI, so I always know what it's attacking in case of a taunt or something. special abilities of pets are mapped to the 'e' or 'r' keys. If you really want to learn how to manage your pet effectively, I suggest doing arenas. I've found that arenas drastically helped my pve pet management abilities.

I really really have to step in here and reiterate what I said for vw tanking 10man sarth. I've now done this successfully several times (since our feral druid was on vacation) The first time I did it I used partial pvp gear, partial pve gear. Just the stuff I had laying around (3 piece deadly, the cloak the ring and the neck) the second time I worse full pve gear.

Honestly if you are having your vw tank gibbed in 10man something is wrong, and it's not your fault, it's 100% your healers. 25man yes you need stam, but certainly not 10man. The trick is after drake #3 dies, switch your VW for your drake tank (we use a warrior) than go down below, use your vw to tank the guys in the portal, come back up despawn in and grab a different pet (I didn't have a FG in that build so I just switched to a succy for the +shadow buff).

Heres a video of the first kill we did this way

Sarth3vw.mov Download File on FileFront

Things to note:
VW position
Healed by a disc priest (the main reason I was using stam gear)
Popped meta for dps not for emergency moment.
I did the same thing a week later in full pve gear.