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Old 02/06/09, 3:35 PM   #91
Tolki
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
<GG>
Alterac Mountains
I'm not getting this. 3.1 is supposed to be our "Changes are coming" patch, but these are just small quality of life improvements. I hope this is just the unobjectionable taste of what is to come and not the "tada!" list.
  • ISB and Improved Soul Leech changes - Utility. It's nice, but you still move through three worthless PvE points to get ISL. Nothing too shiny for the individual.
  • Drain Soul - We use 0-3 shards every boss, more often 0-1. Shard management is requires far less planning in advance and making every trash mob count and now just topping off your bag when you feel like it. This is a nice change, but, as a blue stated earlier, they have a band-aid solution to shards and a sweeping revamp on the horizon, and they went with the unnecessary band-aid for now. Underwhelmed. There is little hassle to shards anymore, it is just wanting a fifth bag that makes me want change.
  • Siphon Life - That's nice for Affliction.
  • Curse consolidation and Voidwalker - Like we use either one. Whoop de frekn do.
  • Reducing talents and adding new ones - Best change I saw, but obviously too vague to comment on.

This all seems not very helpful for PvE or PvP performance and mundane, like it could be tacked onto a bug-fix patch. I really hope there is far more to our changes or I will be severely disappointed.

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Old 02/06/09, 4:29 PM   #92
Burberri
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warlock
 
<G2>
Silvermoon
Destruction isn't a 10-man spec in its current form since it is more reliant on other classes for buffs, and odds are the lock needs to throw down CoE anyway. Giving it replenish makes something worth specing for 10-man.

Yeah SL going from 30 second to 18 is a pvp "nerf" but pvp is measured in terms of GCDs which this saves you plenty. In 3v3 its 4.5 seconds to have SL AND Corruption on the opposing team.

If they want to limit our soul shards per encounter. They could make a soul shard spell like spellstone. Give it say 15 shards and toss a 10 minute cool down on it. I do see Shadowburn making it into rotations if we are talking trivial shard counts though. Grob, OS, Malygos, Sapph, KT, 4H, heigan, thaddius are all fights that you are moving on.

Shards are still an issue in pvp since you can blow through 5-6 a fight easily. With burst being king in pvp shadowburn should almost be a base ability and have no component cost.

As for the VW with Spriests getting 30% damage reduction and having similarly craptastic escape abilities it wouldn't surprise me to see Soul Link buffed back to 30% again. If thats the case the VW would be a solid pet with 22k hp to start, high armor, the ability to see stealth and pop a 5k instance heal on itself.

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Old 02/06/09, 5:19 PM   #93
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by supplicium View Post
Garak, you are a very concise writer and I've never had this issue with any of your posts in the past, but what are you saying? I'm highly befuddled by this comment trying to understand it.

I think what you are saying is that shards allow us to use very powerful abilities and thus should be monitored because they are game breaking. But I really can't see what is so powerful about our abilities currently tied to soul shards. Soulwells Cost a fortune, as do Healthstones just to create, it's not like we could just spam create them in combat with or with out the cost. Shadowburn Might be able to be mixed into a Destruction rotation if it didn't have a cost, but really I don't think it would be worth casting with out movement. It doesn't have that high of a DPCT. Soulfire is Pretty decent for it's DPCT but the cost to this spell is the time involved.
I'm speaking a bit in the theoretical at this point. You're right that shards abilities are not currently powerful. What I'm saying is that the reason soul shard abilities aren't powerful, is because we can bring a stash of forty of them to a fight. If shard abilities were powerful, there's too much difference in power between a lock with 4 shards and one with 40, so we would be required to farm 40 for every fight, which is silly. Given that we're allowed to have a large amount of shards, the only way out of this is simply that they don't do much, which is the situation we're in now: they have no optimal in-combat use, basicaly serving us only as a unique class-defining replacement for a priest's candles.

The only way out of this is to slap a Unique(5) on them. Soulshards can be allowed to be used in-combat for a damage boost IF the damage boost you get from them is capped. This means either restricting them with cooldowns (in which case the cooldown balances them anyways and the shards are just onerous), or restricting the number of shards you have altogether.

Being able to get them back in-combat is really just gravy but I'm personally a huge fan. In terms of restrictions, it means that it caps your DPS boost rather than your static damage boost. In terms of gameplay, it lets us ebb and flow our DPS, letting us burst in a much more organic manner than other classes' cooldown system.


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Old 02/06/09, 6:00 PM   #94
gherkin
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Rexxar
Delete me

Last edited by gherkin : 02/06/09 at 9:11 PM. Reason: Violated rule 6 - won't happen again.

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Old 02/06/09, 8:22 PM   #95
Maalakai
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Sen'jin
I'm going to surmise that...

1) Siphon Life duration gets changed to match that of Corruption to allow for reapplication of both at the same time with the announced change to Siphon Life.

2) Everlasting Affliction gets changed to refresh UA instead of Corruption. EA won't be able to refresh Corruption anymore because then it would also have to refresh SL, which would be way too powerful being able to eliminate recasting 2 DoTs in our arsenal. And it can't refresh just Corruption because then how would you get Siphon up on the mob without casting Corruption manually whenever Siphon falls off? It would totally defeat the purpose of having EA refresh Corruption (if you're gonna cast Corruption just to get Siphon up, you might as well not have EA outside of the bonus to other dots, making half of the talent useless). Also, making EA refresh UA instead addresses a much needed PvP concern for Affliction Warlocks in that we have too many spells with cast times that we need to constantly get up on people. It would also help massively with keeping your "rotation" tight on movement fights in PvE, only ever having to stop to cast Haunt instead of Haunt and UA like you do now.

3)- Haunt and Shadow Embrace will no longer boost Fire damage-over-time effects, Immolate base damage will get nerfed, but Immolate will be brought back up to current levels of power through some deep Destruction talents. This goes along with what GC said in the past about them wanting to remove Immolate (along with Siphon Life through the already-announced change) from Affliction's arsenal and helping to simplify Affliction's "rotation".

4) They'll either increase the duration of the Shadow Embrace effect to something like 15 seconds, or allow Drain Life to stack it as well. Or possibly both.

5) Suppression gets changed to increasing the spell hit of your Shadow spells. This would enable Affliction to only have to spec into one hit talent and enable the hit to work on Soulshatter (if it can still be resisted right now, which I'm entirely unsure of).

6) Cataclysm gets changed to either Fire spells only, or it gets changed to all spells and moved deeper into the tree (perhaps swapping places with Improved Immolate?) out of reach of Affliction Warlocks.

7) Eradication gets changed to a a percent spell haste talent similar to Netherwind Presence in the Mage's Arcane tree.

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Old 02/06/09, 8:34 PM   #96
supplicium
Don Flamenco
 
supplicium's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
I'm speaking a bit in the theoretical at this point. You're right that shards abilities are not currently powerful. What I'm saying is that the reason soul shard abilities aren't powerful, is because we can bring a stash of forty of them to a fight. If shard abilities were powerful, there's too much difference in power between a lock with 4 shards and one with 40, so we would be required to farm 40 for every fight, which is silly. Given that we're allowed to have a large amount of shards, the only way out of this is simply that they don't do much, which is the situation we're in now: they have no optimal in-combat use, basicaly serving us only as a unique class-defining replacement for a priest's candles.

The only way out of this is to slap a Unique(5) on them. Soulshards can be allowed to be used in-combat for a damage boost IF the damage boost you get from them is capped. This means either restricting them with cooldowns (in which case the cooldown balances them anyways and the shards are just onerous), or restricting the number of shards you have altogether.

Being able to get them back in-combat is really just gravy but I'm personally a huge fan. In terms of restrictions, it means that it caps your DPS boost rather than your static damage boost. In terms of gameplay, it lets us ebb and flow our DPS, letting us burst in a much more organic manner than other classes' cooldown system.

Aah ok, thank you for your re-explenation, this train of thought leads me down interesting places my self. Like what if you could soulfire for 30k, once every fight?

See things like this To me could be done with a shared cool down, For instance:

If you had a 30k Direct damage ability, (that's too much because of pvp but you see my point) the ability to summon your infernal ON TOP of your existing pet, and throw in some survivability stuff or raid benefit spells and they all shared a 2min cool down, this to me would bring the same effect.

the problem with having only 5 reagents for a powerful spell at a time, is that each fight/arena/BG what have you you would need to farm 5 more shards, while a cooldown removes shards all together but ties that same thought into it, it also allows lots of planning and interesting strategies, and Could potentially bring in some of that utility I'm always whining about.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 02/07/09, 2:16 AM   #97
Vindra
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Hyjal
If they removed shards from the game as they exist now it would be very difficult to notice a difference. Virtually every spell with a shard requirement has a significant cooldown or other drawback on top of shard use. The biggest offender and often used example is shadowburn.

I personally wish shards were more like energy. A flat non changing base rate of which they are generated and that we are balanced around. Combat abilities such as drainsoul could be used temporarily increase gain. Of course we still need a max number and we could use the existing bags that could hold X shards and shards only fit in the bag.

Maybe with an idea such as the one above the class becomes too difficult to balance. We are already balanced with the assumption that we have near infinite mana. Our resource management is often global cooldowns more than actual mana. Having to manage shards and mana does start to feel too much like a DK with runes and runic power. At least we wouldn't need to farm for shards for certain builds.

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Old 02/07/09, 2:43 AM   #98
orcspit
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Gorefiend
Since Siphon Life currently isn't a "Inflict X damage over Y Seconds" spell, but instead is worded "Transfers 81 health from the target to the caster every 3 sec." my guess is they are simply going to make Siphon Life an untimed debuff that stays on the target as long as corruption is on the same target.

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Old 02/07/09, 12:02 PM   #99
dropwhat
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Thunderlord
Demo Empathy better be 20/40/60% haste buff for 15 seconds

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Old 02/07/09, 12:57 PM   #100
Logyn
Glass Joe
 
Logyn's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Stormrage
On the subject of soul shards, I doubt we'll be seeing a replacement for the SS system until after Ulduar. Though the hunter fix looks promising, the shards-in-combat should be a decent band aid for the time being.
On the forums a month or so ago, GC promised a fix that would change gameplay in a good way, but that it would take time.
My prediction: look for it by the first major patch after ulduar

Last edited by Logyn : 02/09/09 at 3:13 PM. Reason: warning

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Old 02/07/09, 2:48 PM   #101
xaoc.
Banned
 
Orc Warrior
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by orcspit View Post
Since Siphon Life currently isn't a "Inflict X damage over Y Seconds" spell, but instead is worded "Transfers 81 health from the target to the caster every 3 sec." my guess is they are simply going to make Siphon Life an untimed debuff that stays on the target as long as corruption is on the same target.
This is what they mean for sure, I really don't see how people think its a nerf at all, in fact its such a huge buff. I still think they should just change FnB to make immolate get refreshed upon dealing fire damage. It would then keep pace with the whole burning concept and would save 1 gcd every 15 seconds, and still doesn't remove your need to cast COA/Corr. We can pray, Im just hoping for some good destro changes as affliction is snorefest gaming. Right now warlocks are just being punished for having 1 button shadowbolt spam during bc, now we got probably the hardest rotations.

And I belive supplication mentioned, for DS affliction isb buff will in fact drop if your not shadowbolting at the end of the fight. But well see, and I hope ISL doesn't loose its mana and just gains the replenishment buff.

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Old 02/07/09, 3:34 PM   #102
macpain
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Hellscream (EU)
31/0/40

Any thoughts on how the mentioned changes to SiLi and ISB will affect the viability of a 31/0/40 shadow destro hybrid?

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Old 02/07/09, 6:18 PM   #103
Vereku
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by xaoc. View Post
Right now warlocks are just being punished for having 1 button shadowbolt spam during bc, now we got probably the hardest rotations.
QFT, it does feel like a punishment, and it's finally getting to the people in the raid that being a warlock isn't all surfing porn and hitting one button, it takes some competence now to achieve top damage against equally skilled players of other classes. If they buff Destro, and change or add some good talents to make it less black hole-esque then it would be the most attractive to me, I personally don't like the way it plays now and feel like I'm watching just as many cooldowns and DoTs just at a faster pace doing less damage on most boss fights.

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Old 02/08/09, 2:20 AM   #104
Lominen
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by xaoc. View Post
This is what they mean for sure, I really don't see how people think its a nerf at all, in fact its such a huge buff. I still think they should just change FnB to make immolate get refreshed upon dealing fire damage. It would then keep pace with the whole burning concept and would save 1 gcd every 15 seconds, and still doesn't remove your need to cast COA/Corr. We can pray, Im just hoping for some good destro changes as affliction is snorefest gaming. Right now warlocks are just being punished for having 1 button shadowbolt spam during bc, now we got probably the hardest rotations.

And I belive supplication mentioned, for DS affliction isb buff will in fact drop if your not shadowbolting at the end of the fight. But well see, and I hope ISL doesn't loose its mana and just gains the replenishment buff.
Isn't it sorta ironic to trashtalk 1 button spam in the last part of your post while you encourage it in the first part? Refreshing immolate on firedmg from F&B will bring you RIGHT back to TBC playstyle. I love having complex rotations, I love to see that the work and effort I put into my class is close to unbeatable if I play my cards right. And I love that I get slapped in the face on meters when I don't. This is a gift that people should appreciate, cause it keeps you on your toes, even through the 3rd month of farming content you already farmed in another version of the game.

Unless Ulduar fights all become M'uru-like I really don't see the need to simplify Affliction anymore than it already has been with this patch. Warlocks are about dots and lots of them, so why would you want just one or two to juggle? In that case you might as well play a priest or a mage :/

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Old 02/08/09, 4:05 AM   #105
alexisz
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Icecrown
Although they compared the 5 percent crit buff to imp scorch it sounded more like it will be similar to elemental oath and moonkin aura since they said buff and it's 5 percent crit rather than debuff and imp scorch is 10 percent.

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