Upcoming Class Changes - Page 8

Krathis · 02/08/09, 4:07 AM

Originally Posted by Lominen

Isn't it sorta ironic to trashtalk 1 button spam in the last part of your post while you encourage it in the first part? Refreshing immolate on firedmg from F&B will bring you RIGHT back to TBC playstyle.

How is this RIGHT back to TBC playstyle? Keeping CoA and Corruption up alone is more complicated then TBC raiding was. On top of this you're working Chaos Bolt and Conflag in plus whatever effort you want to put into pet micro in a spec that's almost as dependent on pet damage as full demonology is. Believe it or not Destruction right now is just as complicated as Affliction.

Dropping one dot from it's rotation does not put us right back to shadow bolt spamming and honestly if Immolate was the dot that was refreshed it would do a lot for the spec because it would make timing Conflags a lot easier.

Turmeric · 02/08/09, 9:27 AM

I have fallen upon an interesting train of thought that I'd like others opinions on. Bear with me

DS currently does 4x damage when the mob is at less than 25% HP. But why?

It seems many have this pegged as DPS boost (which it undoubtedly is) but my thought is that it was never intended to be an execute-style spell for affliction. What if, the 4x dmg boost is simply to make shard farming easier? I remember the fine art of farming shards as destro, hoping for a crit so that I could kill a mob before it got too close to get a DS cast off during travel time. The 4x change made it much, much more simple, as I could rely on DS to finish off pretty much any mob

So... if we assume that the 4x DS change was done to allow easier farming, is it a huge leap to also assume this new change is it's replacement?

Whilst that would be a rather large nerf, it would certainly bring aff back into line with other raid DPS specs. It would also make the ISB crit buff more viable for affliction as well as Demo.

Now, I understand this is pure speculation however it is a point of view that hasn't been expressed yet and might be worthy of further thought.

PS. I conveniently didn't mention the long-ago post that suggested moving away from SB as the only Warlock filler. Thats about the only piece of evidence that doesn't fit, but it is vague and outdated anyways.

DiamondTear · 02/08/09, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Turmeric

It seems many have this pegged as DPS boost (which it undoubtedly is) but my thought is that it was never intended to be an execute-style spell for affliction. What if, the 4x dmg boost is simply to make shard farming easier? I remember the fine art of farming shards as destro, hoping for a crit so that I could kill a mob before it got too close to get a DS cast off during travel time. The 4x change made it much, much more simple, as I could rely on DS to finish off pretty much any mob

The change doesn't make farming shards easier, since you have to start the channel when the mob is under 25% to get the extra damage. I've noticed it doesn't work any better for affliction, since if you have dots on the target, the dots + normal tick would kill the mob - no need for extra damage.

The changes they announced for 3.1 include a change to make farming shards easier, yet they're not removing the bonus.

The most important point to consider is that only the highest rank of DS has the bonus damage. This means that it was specifically meant as an execute for raids.

Spellia · 02/08/09, 1:47 PM

Maybe Drain soul could be used on target dummies, seeing that you can drain soul off a level 80 dummy.

Either way, anything tanked by your voidwalker will work, drain soul a high hp mob and I assume you will be able to get 3-4 shards per mob.

edited for warning.

Dudekman · 02/08/09, 5:58 PM

I was thinking maybe using duels for shards.

Chinsaw · 02/08/09, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lominen

Unless Ulduar fights all become M'uru-like I really don't see the need to simplify Affliction anymore than it already has been with this patch. Warlocks are about dots and lots of them, so why would you want just one or two to juggle? In that case you might as well play a priest or a mage :/

I disagree Warlocks are about demons. We need more Demon forms and more demon pets. Priest and druids can Dot, Mages can fire, but us Locks we can form into a Demon and summon from beyond the depths of hell Terrifying beings to do our Bidding.

popcycle · 02/08/09, 8:44 PM

disagree Warlocks are about demons. We need more Demon forms and more demon pets. Priest and druids can Dot, Mages can fire, but us Locks we can form into a Demon and summon from beyond the depths of hell Terrifying beings to do our Bidding.

Blizz disagrees.

WoW.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warlock

They are a robed class that excels at plaguing their enemies with disease or curses...

Warlocks have always been the best at DoTs and their use of DoTs in all specs (thought mainly afflic) is extreamly relevent. If you think warlocks are all about demons, spec into demonology. This is why talents were created, so each player could be what they thought a class should be.

Also, I don't really think that Affliction as of now needs that much reworking. only thing I'd like to see would be a slightly longer Haunt duration, with a 15second CD so it would fall into line with Immo/UA. Obvoiusly this would have pvp consequences, but I pvp as demo anyway, so im not sure.

Lasthit · 02/09/09, 5:10 AM

I read the "shards"-speculation with great interest (and I hope I got it right...)

I agree that shards are more or less utility items which have no great effect on gaming right now. Well, if we get an ability to collect shards even if the target doesn't die, that somehow suggests that there's a reason to make this available to us, doesn't it? Right now, there's but the dotlock who uses DS as real dmg <25%. All else is loss of dps, if I'm not mistaken.
But with the current abilities, there's no need to collect more than a bagful of shards - projecting this train of thought: We'll get an ability that makes it worthwhile to loose dps while draining, e.g. a big cd-dmg burst or something similar in the upcoming talent changes. And we won't be able to carry as many of them.

Taking the comments on ammo in consideration, there could be a change to shards as limiting factor of a special attack/big cooldown buff/etc. together with limiting them to Unique(x), getting rid of the bags (poor tailors) and adding the burst we so desperately need to compete on the actual bosses (short-lived, moving) and on trash. Shard-collecting (low-dmg) would be the equivalent of melee-classes' cd.

That sounds very interesting...

I'm no friend of simplifying affliction further, but the dotlocks need something to play with while moving through trash, being in PVP and on bossmobs that shake the complicated rota - if that really is the direction we're moving to, I begin to hope...

Faldrath · 02/09/09, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by macpain

Any thoughts on how the mentioned changes to SiLi and ISB will affect the viability of a 31/0/40 shadow destro hybrid?

It'll obviously improve the spec, but it remains to be seen if it'll be enough to make it competitive with the other main hybrid specs (0/41/30, 0/30+1/40+1). Right now the main problem with 31/0/40 is that the slightly buffed DoTs are not enough to compensate the damage bonus given by the Imp or Felguard with MD, and the announced changes so far do not seem to be enough.

chelos · 02/09/09, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Spellia

Maybe Drain soul could be used on target dummies, seeing that you can drain soul off a level 80 dummy.

I do not see Blizzard allowing us to do this. It would be a silly gimmick to be able to get shards from dummies, and I doubt they will go that route when trying to make our shards farming less time consuming (which is what I assume their main purpose is). Since I use Soul Fire while under backdraft + heroism in boss fights, I am more concerned about farming shards in between bosses, where trash mobs often die too fast for DS to have a a chance to tick. Let us wait and see if there is a more sweeping change to the SS mechanics.

Mayorsayer · 02/09/09, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Burberri

warlocks problems for pvp are the lack of burst, escape, or mitigation. Tagging SL to corruption won't make it OP.

You must only play affliction? Gnome Destro Lock = Burst + Teleport + Escape Artist + DeathCoil + Shadowfury + HowloTerror + Fear
Mitigation = Soul Link

What more could you ask for? I personally have no problem in PvP. Maybe you should try a different pvp spec.

emerica128 · 02/09/09, 8:04 PM

In regards to soul shards why not have them stack in the currency interface? You would still have to farm them, but it frees up a bag space and keeps you from deleting them on trash pulls. I'm sure there would be some osrt of hard cap at 100 or something.

Chillin! · 02/10/09, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Mayorsayer

You must only play affliction? Gnome Destro Lock = Burst + Teleport + Escape Artist + DeathCoil + Shadowfury + HowloTerror + Fear
Mitigation = Soul Link

What more could you ask for? I personally have no problem in PvP. Maybe you should try a different pvp spec.

Not that I have room to talk, but in the 1400s you DO have a problem with pvp. Destro burst isn't comparable to other classes, and three CC skills that share DR and have a long CD, and a talented skill with a short stun that you have to be good enough to aim hardly make something you couldn't ask more of.

I like the changes they are thinking about, and I agree with the Immolate refreshing thing for F&B. But on another note, anybody notice how they just took away hunter ammo? That's not even fair to give them the convenience of that and still force warlocks to use an entire bag for shards.

PsyBomb · 02/10/09, 11:26 AM

As a general rule, Blizz has been cutting inventory space requirements for "class" stuff to 4-5 slots tops. Once the ammo changes, Warlocks will be the only ones who still need a bag for the class. The easiest solution to this by far would just be to make Soul Shards stack to 200 (or higher if the code supports it, 500 would be ideal). Combined with converting Shard Bags to regular ones (as I'm assuming they will do to ammo pouches) and the changes to Drain Soul, this would effectively end the limitations of it. Let's face it, even assuming the extra-shard chance is only 5% per tick, just using DS as an execute (as everyone should be) makes for that stack hitting max fairly quickly.

Please note that I do NOT count extra gear in the bags toward "class use", since that is a player choice and not a class requisite.

upperking · 02/10/09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by PsyBomb

As a general rule, Blizz has been cutting inventory space requirements for "class" stuff to 4-5 slots tops. Once the ammo changes, Warlocks will be the only ones who still need a bag for the class. The easiest solution to this by far would just be to make Soul Shards stack to 200 (or higher if the code supports it, 500 would be ideal). Combined with converting Shard Bags to regular ones (as I'm assuming they will do to ammo pouches) and the changes to Drain Soul, this would effectively end the limitations of it. Let's face it, even assuming the extra-shard chance is only 5% per tick, just using DS as an execute (as everyone should be) makes for that stack hitting max fairly quickly.

Please note that I do NOT count extra gear in the bags toward "class use", since that is a player choice and not a class requisite.

Just use 3, 32 slot SS bags =96 shards, for raiding. the backpack is plenty enough for extra crap needed for a warlock in raiding.