2k is a good number for a lot of people and is close to the base number from the Sim Craft stuff, except tht his number does take into account fel armor while simcraft does not.
On the other hand, just scroll down he increases his damage.
There could be oscillations between there, who knows. I was more interested about the haste and crit effects!
Even with 3 points into the new eradication, a 6% chance to proc on a dot that ticks every 3 seconds boils down to it proccing on average once per 50 seconds. This is honestly not very good.
I calculated the average time between the procs as 50 secs as well, but the average time is misleading. To get a more precise opinion, I wrote a small simulation for the new talent eradication.
With a casttime of shadow bolt (after bane and haste) with 2 secs and a 20% chance to crit, I observe the following equivalents:
1 point is worth 1.825% crit chance
2 points are worth 3.530% crit chance
and
3 points are worth 5.082% crit chance.
I had additionally the assumption that corruption last forever and there is no need to recast it and you simply chain casting shadowbolts.
In real life situations where you casting other dots, haunt etc. I expect a little higher equivalent crit chance, since there are less shadow bolt cast and so the higher stacks of eradication have more weight.
Specing Conflagrate without Improved Immolate would be quite an impressive feat. It's a prerequisite talent.
Wow....
I mean did I really just say that? And I make fun of my students for making stupid mistakes like that...
Anyways, the reasoning is sound. The question is: is it real and was it intended?
In any case, raid buffed you would be seeing 7-8k for a conflagrate, minimum, even without the effect of improved immolate. That alone is worth it to be in a fire rotation, which is why I like the 0/30/40 +1 imp build so much. I already do 4800-5k patchwerk dps with this spec, and I do not see a place where they took a significant amount of damage away, but now have an extra buff to master conjurer as well as a reason to use conflagrate.
Well, you can't test Conflagrate without Imp. Immolate for obvious reasons.
I just tested Conflagrate with Shadowflame where it works as expected and according to the tooltip.
I guess it has to be Improved Immolate if not Fire and Brimstone in combination with Aftermath. The former sounds more reasonable to me. I do not know how to multiply or add F&B and Aftermath for this.
Edit: no I didn't use a Spellstone or anything like that.
Can you repeat the test with and without the immolate glyph?
Can you repeat the test with and without the immolate glyph?
The current test he did is without. I don't think doing it with will clear anything up though. It should just increase both the Immolate DoTs and the Conflag by a further 20%. I guess it would show if the Glyph has any impact on Conflag, but until we're sure how the Conflag is being calculated without the Glyph I don't see why we would want to complicate it even more.
What would be helpful, I think, is to try it again without Aftermath, Emberstorm or F&B so that the only thing possibly increasing the Immolate would be Imp. Immolate, which is unavoidable. If Immolate and Conflag match up then, we know it's something in one of the aforementioned talents that causes it and they can be added in one at a time to see which one does it. If they are still off we'll know it is Improved Immolate causing the difference and can test the others to see; 1) Are they all working, and 2) Do they push Immolate and Conflag any further apart?
So Immolate is probably always going to be worth casting. Feel free to suggest errors in my math. I realize that I didn't take the new Eradication into account which will buff the SB stats a bit. However, given that currently it'll take about 50 seconds to see an Eradication proc and the difference is quite so pronounced, I don't think adding that in that would make Immolate NOT worth casting.
I agree Immolate scales better with spellpower. I was thinking that Shadow Bolt DPCT would scale better with Crit and Haste than Immolate, but how much would you need to make SB a higher DPCT?
In my raid gear, with no firestone/spellstone I was getting 12k conflag crits. Now, the main things I have been wondering are glyphs and Conflag usage:
Obviously two major glyphs you want are Incinerate and Immolate. I'm up in the air about Imp, Conflag, Chaosbolt, and Lifetap- leaning towards Imp or Conflag depending upon how you use Conflag.
I haven't been able to do much testing on the PTR because of constant crashes. With the new Pyroclasm talent (which also isnt working on the PTR) I was thinking it might be better to Conflag only when Immolate has 5 or fewer seconds. This is going to allow you to crit 25% more (which are substantial crits now), potentially keep Pyroclasm up if you crit every time (6% damage), and lower your mana consumption which allows less Lifetaps.
Anyways just some random thoughts. I have a feeling using Conflag on cooldown would still be more dps, but I wish I could test this without crashing.
Everything done with 0 spellpower
Glyphed/not glyphed is whether I had the immolate glyph or not
Hits is what immolate hit for.
Ticks is what immolate ticks for.
Conflag is what conflag hits for.
I think you should try the Fire and Brimstone one again with some gear on because otherwise it doesn't show anything about that talent (since it just increases Immo's coefficient).
I've just seen the new Life Tap glyph that has been "added" and I wonder if anyone has done the calculation of using it against other glyphs that is valid for deep destruction. ( If you have approx 400 spirit without raidbuffs or 4t7)
Is the 4p t7 proccing before or after the Life Tap glyph, in other words, do you get the benifit from 4t7 or do you need to life tap a secound time.
If you do need to life tap 2 times is it worth waiting until you have spent the amount of mana you will gain from 2 life taps. And is it even worth spending 2 global cooldowns on this.
I think you should try the Fire and Brimstone one again with some gear on because otherwise it doesn't show anything about that talent (since it just increases Immo's coefficient).
Server was crashing:
Tested with 2013 spellpower and all destro talents/glyphs:
0/5 fnb:
Hits 1165
Ticks 957
Conflag 3218
5/5 fnb:
Hits 1300
Ticks 1026
Conflag 3449
3. Conflag benefits from Fire and Brimstone. Out of the 15% spellpower boost, 5% seems to go to the initial immolate hit while 10% goes to the dot to the dot, so you get 2/3 of the benefit.
Edit 2: So summary is, all the talents and glyph are working for Immolate and are additive. Conflag is not benefiting from Aftermath, Imp. Immolate, or the glyph, but is benefiting from Emberstorm and F&B.
1. Conflag does not gain with aftermath, imp immolate, or the glyph.
2. Conflag gains from emberstorm, but only once. It doesn't double dip.
Damn you beat me by literally minutes. I just came to post the same data, sigh.
But yes it seems disappointing that it doesn't BUT by the same token it would be far, far too powerful for pvp if it did. You'd end up with 12k conflags, and that is a bit much.
So I think the debate between spellstone and firestone has to be gone over again, 4% increase is a huge increase in damage, but that is SO So much haste.
Also, side note blizzard added in a lot of enhanced tooltips that take talents into account which is very very nice.
I am not seeing a debuff or self buff for pyroclasm which makes it hard to track when it's up or not. ALso, Here are some numbers self buffed (no consumables) as the above spec. First I'm siting at 2533 spelldmage (with Illustration) 722 haste 18.04% crit, and 13% hit. Glyph of conflag and immolate only (until My glyphs make it over to the ptr)
With those stats, I'm hitting max 10289 conflags WITH Dying curse procced,
and 9684 With dying curse procced on Ininerate
Corruption is ticking for 807 Immolate for
Seariing pain max crit is 3942.
Immolate is ticking for 1553~
Imps fire bolt is hitting non crit for 870-880 1255.
The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.
I posted this on the PTR forums, just wondering if anyone else is noticing.
Running as meta/ruin, or really just decimation; the point being that you don't get the buff until the sb/incin actually hits the target. I noticed on the test dummy that to get the quicker SF cast, you have to wait 1/2 a sec or so, or cast 2 sbs or some filler to be able to cast SF at the increased speed. Otherwise I'm getting the buff part way into the SF cast and its at the normal cast time. This is easily fixed by casting something else in between, but seems to eliminate the sb-sf-sb...etc rotation sub 35%. Seeing some nice damage though, ~16k crits with MC/DP up, self buffed @ 1.33 sec cast in my gear.
As I posted and many others have, that the decimation buff procs when the SB/Inci hits the target, the only viable way i see on how we fix this are 2:
Either stay in meele range (which you are if meta/ruin because of meta/aura) allowing the Inci/SB > SF.
OR casting something in between the time the projectile lands to the enemy, somebody posted earlier or somewhere else that they were plannig to take away the extra threat from searing pain.
If the talent is unwieldy like this or not functioning like it was designed, then a re-write wouldn't be out of line. This is a problem that the designers have to solve along with the players.
Two questions about implimented functionality:
1. If you cast an incinerate when the mob is above 35% but it lands after the mob is below 35% (via other sources of damage during travel time), does it proc Decimate? If the mob heals across the threshold, does the converse hold?
2. Is it in any way possible to get the proc, cast another incinerate/shadowbolt, and get the Soulfire off before the incinerate/SB lands, and thereby get the proc? If so, aside from a one-nuke ramp-up time you can still alternate spells by weaving which proc is used by which soulfire. I am more interesting in finding this in order to prevent it from going live than in seeing if its a viable playstyle.
I'll check when the server is up, or I can log in, w/e the current issue is. But i do know that 2 sb's yields only 1 use, it just resets the timer to 10 secs.
Damn you beat me by literally minutes. I just came to post the same data, sigh.
But yes it seems disappointing that it doesn't BUT by the same token it would be far, far too powerful for pvp if it did. You'd end up with 12k conflags, and that is a bit much.
It would be even higher than that, yeah.
The only thing this changes is the immolate glyph. I'll drop it for imp now.
2. Is it in any way possible to get the proc, cast another incinerate/shadowbolt, and get the Soulfire off before the incinerate/SB lands, and thereby get the proc? If so, aside from a one-nuke ramp-up time you can still alternate spells by weaving which proc is used by which soulfire. I am more interesting in finding this in order to prevent it from going live than in seeing if its a viable playstyle.
I was able to get it to work this way for me I was doing SB - SB - SF - SF and both SF's were being affected by decimation procs.
02/25/09, 2:37 PM
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