meingaree

has anyone ever tried to find haste ranges for optimal rotations?

like a haste ranged where a perfect amount of incinerates (and the cb and conflags can be used on cd) that can perfectly (or as close as possible) can fit into the duration of an immolate?

i mean, i wouldnt mind trying to figure that out as well, but it seems impossible. (unless you have enough haste where everything is a 1 sec cast)

 

Jenren22

Hi, i have just recently started using Simcraft however i have a question which i think many other people are also wondering. I raid 10man, therefore i do not receive all the optimal buffs (we do not raid with a shaman). I created a .BAT file with the commandline:

simcraft.exe max_time=300 optimal_raid=1 wowhead=14507305 output=report.txt html=report.txt
notepad report.txt

Adjusting my wowhead profile according to what i want to look at, and dragging this file onto the Scale_factors.BAT file for my results. However as it is set as 'optimal_raid=1', i can't rely on any results as i would presume the value of haste goes down with a shaman in the raid. Thus is there any way you can configure your commandline to include only the buffs your raid provides, so that i can use the command line with confidence? I have tried a few things i have found from various forums to no avail, and unfortunately alot of posters have not been able to answer my question due to not knowing themselves. Some people have suggested setting it to 'optimal_raid=0', however i don't understand how this would work since the buffs that i do receive will also adjust the scaling factors, taking into consideration no buffs at all, which is also not realistic. I know i can't rely on Simcraft to give the 'absolute answer', but i'd like to be able to use it in confidence when choosing how to arrange my gear and to view possible upgrades in order to maximise my dps output. I am fairly new to Simcraft so a very clear explanation is what i need.

I would also like to just check...does Simcraft always take into consideration set bonuses? And how does it judge your hit? Does it presume you receive a hit buff from a moonkin/shadow priest thus the hit cap is set to 14% with gear? (as horde). Thus if you changed an item that, say, put you under the cap at around 13.9%, would it acknowledge this and adjust your dps (essentially decrease it)?

Much help would be appreciated,

Regards.

 

mwaf

I decided to do some more fine-grained testing than what I did in my original post about short fights. See below for results on how DPS for different specs/rotations change depending on the fight's length. Please remember that these numbers do not include pet damage. All numbers are generated with simcraft (r3410) using 200k iterations.

(I apologies for using the word "rotation" throughout my posts although I'm obviously referring to a spell priority list and not a rotation.)

Affliction

	Legend	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	25	30	35	45	60	90	120	300
Standard	Blue	904	1221	1317	1777	3027	3091	3600	4122	4502	4614	4868	5103	5313	5639	5856	5904	6052	6459	6528	6468	6701	6978	7044	7188
No haunt	Red	749	675	1809	2499	2609	3251	3724	3925	4045	4508	4504	4835	4972	5159	5218	5365	5140	5556	5629	5450	5661	5863	5874	5963
SB spam	Yellow	2080	2882	2329	3200	2830	3258	3138	3487	3413	3576	3590	3625	3616	3678	3725	3741	3822	3892	3871	3778	3831	3864	3894	3674
Benchmark	Green																								7188

The graphs shows that the breaking point for starting to use a normal rotation over Shadow bolt spam is at about 11 seconds. It takes about 30 seconds for affliction to reach decent DPS numbers and it takes very long to reach full DPS. This should hardly come as a surprise to anyone.



Demonology

	Legend	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	25	30	35	45	60	90	120	300
Standard	Blue	513	484	1670	1754	2149	2569	2848	3056	3294	3403	3536	3599	3768	3798	3802	3773	4051	4085	4224	4167	4291	4542	4444	4526
SB spam	Red	2458	2656	2420	2946	3041	3060	3143	3246	3255	3338	3356	3470	3491	3513	3511	3548	3608	3615	3644	3576	3591	3630	3645	2955
Benchmark	Yellow																								4526

Results indicate that it's safe to go for SB spam for adds lasting up to 14 seconds. It also takes Demo about 30 seconds to reach any decent numbers.


Destruction

	Legend	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	25	30	35	45	60	90	120	300
Standard	Blue	3378	3230	4145	4867	5232	5242	5507	5542	5626	5689	6211	6242	6159	6239	6298	6248	6362	6555	6587	6496	6629	6873	6873	6922
No conflag	Red	749	2457	2341	3318	3103	3673	3660	4040	4091	4330	4307	4529	4661	4702	4756	4775	4891	4994	5087	5020	5126	5369	5390	5471
CB incinerate	Yellow	2029	2467	2861	2933	3224	3257	3470	3534	3611	3683	3825	3889	3864	3961	4036	4107	4179	4208	4325	4199	4260	4516	4520	4580
Benchmark	Green																								6922

It doesn't take Destruction more than 15 seconds to reach good numbers. Immolate should be skipped only if the fight is very short (< 8s) and conflagerate is on cooldown.

 

Theldesmoth

I'm trying to understand the scale factor for spirit in infinite mana situation. Using infinite_mana=1 with 03/13/55 I get about the same scale value for 00/13/58 as espected. So I have

Sta=0.00 Int=0.31 Spi=1.02 SP=1.59 Hit=3.57 Crit=0.82 Haste=1.10

and spirit is only use to boost spell power with fel armor. My question is why the scale of spirit is not :

Blessings_of_kings*Glyph _of_life_tap*fel_armor*scale_of_spell_power = 1.1*1.2*0.39*1.59=0.8185 ?

 

Warlocomotif

Because it's
1.1*(0.2+(0.3*1.3))*1.59
1.1*(0.2+0.39)*1.59
1.1*0.59*1.59

You some to do some really awkward thing for glyph of lifetap that makes no sense at all.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

 

Theldesmoth

Thanks! For some reason I had in mind that life tap glyph is 20% more spirit... my bad.

 

Zloguk

I have one question, i couldn't find answer on forum: What is haste "cap", eg. after what haste rating crit becomes better scaled ? I saw that someone said 500, but after that someone else said that all up to 800 haste is better scaled (ofc. considering normail 25 man raid, boss fights and BL).

Can anyone answer this ?

 

xaoc.

I can't find the post right now, however, I can tell you that there is no chance for you to have enough haste to "cap." Also, the post about 500 haste was only stating that after 500 haste the value of haste was no longer 1.10 it fell to around .92 if I remember correctly, This was however, still above the .82 value of crit, therefore haste is still superior.

Hope that helped

 

Zloguk

Ty, it helped alot

 

Warlocomotif

I was just looking at the warlock bugs thread, and basicallyt someone said the 4t9 bonus isn't working yet. The post didn't have enough information for my liking, and so I decided to have a closer look at the logs posted in there.

The average tick of immolate was doing 1373.9 damage, the average conflag hit was doing 5803.0 damage. That is 4.22 times the damage of the average immolate tick. Now quite frankly, the sample size is tiny, absurdly tiny even. But this did get me to look at the front page of this thread to see what the numbers looked like here...

So I checked, but if I understand correctly:
From what I understand, this means the average immolate tick did 1884 damage, the average conflagrate hit did 6783 damage. This makes no sense, that's only 3.6 times the damage of conflag. Why would it do so little damage?

Am I missing something siginificant or is there something that conflag doesn't scale with? (it seems to be missing 10% scaling somewhere)

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

 

dedmonwakeen

The first post may be a bit stale...... The Destro numbers on the SampleOutputT9 wiki show a ratio in the 4+ range.

EDIT: If people want to audit the Warlock module: http://simulationcraft.googlecode.co...sc_warlock.cpp
Simply look for immolate_t and conflagrate_t. Thanks!

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

• Zakalwe

Conflag isn't affected by the 4PT9 bonus, according to the numbers in this post. Has this changed?

EDIT: Apparently it has, and the warlock module has been updated to reflect that, and I never noticed.

 

Madlax

Improved Felhunter: This talent now also reduces the cooldown on the felhunter’s Shadow Bite ability by 2/4 seconds.

Decimation: Redesigned. When Shadowbolt, Incinerate or Soul Fire hit a target that is at or below 35% health, the cast time of Soul Fire is reduced by 30/60% for 8 seconds. Soul Fires cast under the effect of Decimation cost no shards.

Demonic Pact: This talent now also increases the warlock's spell damage by 1/2/3/4/5%.

Conflagrate: Redesigned. This talent now consumes an Immolate or Shadowflame effect on the enemy target to instantly deal damage equal to 9 seconds of Immolate or 8 seconds of Shadowflame, and causes additional damage over 3 seconds equal to 3 seconds of Immolate or 2 seconds of Shadowflame.

Shadow Bite: This pet ability now provides 15% increased damage for each of the warlock’s damage-over-time effects on the target.


Interesting demo change.

 

molson

(Very) Early T10 Bonuses:
Warlock

* Item - Warlock T10 2P Bonus - The critical strike chance of your Shadowbolt, Incinerate, and Corruption spells is increased by 5%.
* Item - Warlock T10 4P Bonus - Each time your Immolate and Unstable Affliction spells deal periodic damage, you have a 15% chance to gain 12% spell haste for 10 sec.

 

Althor

I've added the 3.3.0 talent changes.
(Haven't done the T10 stuff yet. The Shadow Priest one for example is obviously buggy or badly parsed).

 

• Zakalwe

I've updated the OP with 3.3 numbers.

 

Hephaustus

Did you account for Decimate affecting 41/30 and 40/31's dps? It doesn't look like it from the numbers.

 

• Zakalwe

The decimation change won't affect the simcraft numbers, because you can always weave 1 to 1 at the distance it simulates (by default). What the change does do is make the simcraft numbers more generally applicable, because you can now weave 1 to 1 at any distance.

 

Althor

You don't even have to weave anymore with that change. You could just spam Soul Fire.

As I mentioned however, I didn't look at the profiles. It's possible I guess that the profiles could be optimised taking this into account. I was more concerned with adding the coding support for this change (and the changes for the other classes) and letting the experts (you guys) sort out what to do with priorities etc.

 

inos

well you missed 1 change then - you dont really need now weaves - just spam soul fire all the time cos it also proc decimetation - only cast SB every 30 sec for crit debuff

 

Hephaustus

Currently on PTRs, Decimate is not consumed on casting a Soulfire.

If you compare the tooltip on live with the patch note, the Live version has the words "Next cast" whereas the newly worded one does not. Subtle and easy to miss, but yeah, pretty much amazing.

Ive wanted to spam soulfires since like lvl 60 even though it was a 60 second cooldown.

 

• Zakalwe

I'm not sure how you're supposed to be just spamming Soul Fire. Decimation procs when one of the three spells triggering it (SB/Incin/SF) lands, and is consumed when a Soul Fire cast ends. As long as that last bit is true, how will you ever chain two Soul Fire casts without the second one being slow and costing a shard?

The only exception I can see is if you're standing at point blank range and are not queuing up your spells at all - ie. you wait for the buff to go up before starting your next cast. For me personally it's hard to comment on how viable that is for someone with near-zero lag - it's certainly not viable at all for me with my usual 300ms+.

 

Scyne

The thing is that it is not consumed. Talent description does not say anything about "next cast" or that the buff ends. It just stays for 8 seconds or until its refreshed by another soul fire. There is also locks on the PTR that have tried and confirmed that it behaves that way.

 

• Zakalwe

Ahh. That certainly explains everything. Sorry for my confusion and slow post - I'll post new numbers soon.

 

• Zakalwe

There you go, new numbers are up. That's certainly a pretty big buff. Interesting how big the DPS difference is between >35% and <35%: