wickedwally

It is my understanding that a summoned doomguard is still considered an enslaved demon, this is the reason why fg/emberstorm specs dont benefit from using the dg. so i really don't understand why there's 2 versions up for affliction. the summoned doomguard and the enslaved doomguard should both be suffering from the same penalties, though i think i read with the removal of the talent point, they were lowering the penalties greatly

 

Rookz

That leave's one question to me ... which spec do you think will profit the most from future gear (Ulduar and beyond)?

 

Naforce

Check the scaling factors and you have your answer. I'm guessing affliction if it gets it 200% dot crit or deep destro.

 

Eeks

What I'm curious about... what stats does it take for keeping the glyph of life tap's buff up as part of your rotation to be a dps increase in affliction (Any excuse to worry about something else)

 

• Zakalwe

This is not true - summoned doomguards get no swing time penalty. FG/Emberstorm specs don't benefit from the DG because the felguard does higher DPS than the doomguard, not to mention the felguard's MD buff.

 

Malathar

Well, one major thing to look at ... a summoned doomguard has ~ 35k hp unbuffed, while a CoD doomguard has ~25k unbuffed ... I would think that 10k difference alone would support the fact that one scales and the other doesn't.

Also, when lowering my stamina, all my normal pets (which scale) have their hp drop as well, CoD doomguards does not however, not anyone around to help me with ritual of doom, so I can't say for certain if a summoned doomguard does or not.

I gained 57 sp from Demonic Knowledge with a CoD doomguard (oddly I was under the impression that demonic knowledge didn't work on enslaved demons), I'll post what comes from a summoned one when I get the people to help.

Just confirmed that the summoned doomguard's stamina drops along with mine. So I think its safe to say that CoD doomguard doesn't scale.

 

ostoles

I have made an additional change to correct for this and updated the previous post I made.

 

deathmancer

Can you add "scale_stamina=250" as one of your scale factor options? I'm curious to what the minuscule effect is on demonology builds.

 

Ruic

I have been reading through this forum over the past couple of days to stay well informed on all post 3.1 specs, and from what I have read I have three questions:

1) In your iterations, does the 2000 spell power represent un-buffed spell power? I know myself, and presumably others, far exceed this mark in raid buffs and Fel Armor; however, without these, I am around 2000 spell power. If the latter is true, could you possibly re-run some of the higher DPS specs (and possibly lower DPS specs to see if the gap closes somewhat) with 2500 spell power so I can get a better sense of how the numbers play out with higher end gear (this would also allow everyone to get a better understanding of how each specs scales with better gear)?

2) For specs with Decimation who use Immolate + Incinerate as the primary nuke above 35% (i.e. 0/41/30, 0/40/31 etc.), are they supposed to drop Immolate from the rotation below 35% because Incinerate is merely used to proc Decimation, or is it helpful to keep Immolate to increase Incinerate's damage? If you were to drop Immolate you would undoubtedly gain several Soulfire casts in the sub 35% phase, but you lose damage on Incinerate; I am curious to see how this plays out. Similarly, would you also want to drop Corruption (assuming two pieces of tier-7) and Curse of Agony? These would proc Molten Core and increase both Soulfire's and Incinerate's damage (and possibly Immolate depending on the answer to the first part of the question), but again dropping them would allow more Soulfires to be cast.

3) Finally, in your iterations, what value are you placing on hit? I am currently hit capped using the 0/41/30 build pre 3.1 (3% from talents and 3% from Boomkins or Shadow Priests), but will lose the hit aspect of Cataclysm after 3.1. Most likely, I will spec Felguard/Emberstorm again, and I am wondering how important it is to make up the 3% hit I lose from talents with hit gear?

*PS: I am sorry, I would run the iterations myself but I have no idea how to work Simulationcraft, and am most likely too technologically inept to figure out how to *

 

supplicium

The 2000 spellpower is unbuffed/consumed as are all other stats/

Immolate is still a very high DPCT spell and it buffs your filler incinerates.

 

Ruic

What about Curse of Agony and Corruption (part 2 of question 2)?

 

Malathar

Dropping immolate would be a bad idea because it has a higher DPCT than Incinerate, and the damage it adds to your incinerates will add up quite quickly.

Hit > all until cap'd. It's quite important that you replace that 3% hit from losing the talent. Not sure if you've noticed it or not, but I use to be at 11% hit with gear and took the talent. I noticed so many CoA and Corr misses its not even funny, and thats a pretty big dps loss cause you not only lose their damage, but the possibility of procing MC. So I quickly picked up another 3% hit and only have the talent as filler, nothing better to grab for my spec.

As for CoA and Corr, I would think you would want to cast them to proc MC if nothing else. 10% dmg on your soulfires is pretty big .. another 1200-1600 dmg to my crits. But I haven't actually looked into it, sure someone will bust out the math on it soon.

 

Sumbish

How complicated will it make the first post to include the DPCT for a few builds?

I also think having 15 aff debuffs is unreasonably scaling the aff result. A real world number is harder to guess but I feel each spec should be considered solo when doing flat comparisons. eg. does the 41/30 benefit from the DP lock in the sim? If so that needs to be made clear because without a DP lock or a ele sham then 41/30 may not be so good after all.

Anyone else getting the sneaking suspicion from this;

• Enslave Demon: Spell haste penalty reduced by 10%, Melee haste penalty reduced by 10%.
• Warlocks now innately have an increased 10% spell hit chance on the Enslave Demon spell.
• Enslave Demon has been changed, it is no longer more difficult to control a demon if you repeatedly enslave the same demon.
• Drain Soul: Each time Drain Soul deals damage to a target which can grant experience, it now has a chance to generate a Soul Shard.

(source mmochamp.)

that destro and aff can perma doomguard as long as they don't let it die more than once an hour. Demo could as well of course but no point.

 

supplicium

Two responses to this. First if you are being a dick, Zakalwe doesn't have to post any of this he chooses too. If you aren't being a dick, and are just curious, it's not that hard, but at the moment we are looking simply at the DPS comparison from spec to spec. before we get into the "well if we do this I get 5.6 dps more". You got to apply the primer before you can paint the pinstripes.

No you shouldn't consider a solo warlock to be accurate. These numbers all include buffs and debuffs from other classes, and as such that includes other warlocks. IF affliction is best than all of your warlocks will be affliction and there by the dps will increase over all. Also At the moment DP is a very week talent as it doesn't scale with the spirit in fel armor. And there by Simcraft assumes perfect grouping with ele shaman. Also different specs scale differently with raid buffs and the only way to see which will be on top is to add those raid buffs.


Ok So not to be rude here, but clearly you haven't used a doomguard since 3.0 It no longer comes out unenslaved nor does it break enslave it just despawns. Now if you were going to take the time to CoD your self to a doomgaurd then yes this is true but this is both a PITA and it's much less of a dps increase over the other pets, though it is still good.

 

• Zakalwe

DPCT is in there, it's called DPET. Damage Per Execute Time.

 

volcomm

I believe you read his language incorrectly, a mistake i made when i first skimmed through it. he said "How complicated will it make the first post to include the DPCT for a few builds?", not "How hard/complicated would it be to include the DPCT?".

anyway, im liking the 41/30 change.

 

Maalakai

Here are some Destruction parses from the DPS Patchwerk boss guy in Ulduar right now:

Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

Spec I used is 3/13/55, Immolate, Incinerate, and Conflagrate glyphs.

Cordi was using 3/22/46 I believe.




Here's an Affliction parse, but it didn't get my pet for some reason (used a Felhunter):

Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

With the pet I was around 5800 or so. Used Immolate, Corruption, and Curse of Agony glyphs.

New glyphs aren't available on the PTR yet.

 

Nartas

Mal can u post a link to your 3/13/55 spec that would be very helpful. Thanks!

 

Maalakai

 

supplicium

Yea there are a lot of stunnable mobs in Ulduar so shadowfury is probably a great utility spell.


I'm guessing if you didn't take the extra 2 points in the tree you'd beable to toss those into say Imp agony.

 

• Zakalwe

Yeah it turns out CoD beats CoA for destro even with the talent, so anything over 3 points in affliction is a waste. I updated the OP again to reflect this, and also removed the DS-based destro spec because I really don't see when it'll ever be viable. I also removed 0/30/41 because it's not competitive at all.

 

supplicium

Sigh I really need to figure out how to do this partial update of simcraft.

Mind tossing in these two variations into that 3/13/55 build:

Corruption

Glyph of CB over incin

Thanks.

 

• Zakalwe

Corruption is a huge loss, and it's already using glyph of incinerate.

Btw, here's what the graph looks like if we assume Ruin is changed to affect pandemic crits:

 

Nartas

Thanks

 

Pentamorfi

You misunderstood I think, he asked you to replace the glyph of incinerate with the cb one. I'm also interested in knowing the results.