SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 100

wow2k6 · 05/15/09, 6:22 AM

Okay, if I got you right you just looked at each set bonus independently? So I have to add the T8-2 Bonus to the T8-4 Bonus to get the benefit 4 pieces would give me?

Scrufola · 05/15/09, 6:42 AM

Originally Posted by wow2k6

Okay, if I got you right you just looked at each set bonus independently? So I have to add the T8-2 Bonus to the T8-4 Bonus to get the benefit 4 pieces would give me?

Yes, that's correct.

32103940 · 05/15/09, 7:55 AM

I tried looking in Globals_T8 but cannot find the option to enable 3.1.2 mechanics. How do I run simcraft for 3.12 changes?

Scrufola · 05/15/09, 8:19 AM

Originally Posted by 32103940

I tried looking in Globals_T8 but cannot find the option to enable 3.1.2 mechanics. How do I run simcraft for 3.12 changes?

Add this to your config file:

patch=3.1.2

Scrufola · 05/15/09, 11:04 AM

If you would like to skill into Improved Soul Leech and skill additional non-dps talents like Shadow Fury, Shadowburn or 2 points in Destructive reach, which talent is the best to remove some points from?

3.1.2 with T8 best in Slot gear.

dps	loss	lptp
7525			Warlock_T8_00_13_58
7388	-137	-45.67	Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_backlash
7340	-185	-61.67	Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_pyroclasm
7331	-194	-64.67	Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_emp_imp
6676	-849	-169.8	Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_fire_and_brimstone
6861	-664	-221.33	Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_backdraft

loss = dps loss if this talent is not skilled
lptp = dps loss per talent point if this talent is not skilled

With T8 "best in slot gear" and 3.1.2, it looks like backlash provides the least dps gain per talent point.
Pyroclasm and Empowered Imp are about the same dps gain per talent point.

Now, let's see if it would make sense to replace the least contributing 3 talent points (2 backlash, 1 pyroclasm) with suppression.

7525	Warlock_T8_00_13_58
7383	Warlock_T8_03_13_55-replenishment

No, with access to T8 "best in slot gear", suppression is not worth it for a replenishment build.

3.1.2 with T7 best in slot gear.

dps	loss	lptp
6787			Warlock_T7_00_13_58
6657	-130	-43.33	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_backlash
6629	-158	-52.67	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_pyroclasm
6606	-181	-60.33	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_emp_imp
6165	-622	-207.33	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_backdraft
6020	-767	-153.4	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_fire_and_brimstone

   6787    Warlock_T7_00_13_58
   6725    Warlock_T7_03_13_55-replenishment

3.1.0 with T7 best in slot

dps	loss	lptp
6108			Warlock_T7_00_13_58
6006	-102	-34	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_pyroclasm
5993	-115	-38.33	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_backlash
5942	-166	-55.33	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_emp_imp
5920	-188	-62.67	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_fire_and_brimstone
5587	-521	-104.2	Warlock_T7_00_13_58-no_backdraft

6108		Warlock_T7_00_13_58
6063		Warlock_T7_03_13_55-replenishment

With 3.1.0 and T7 "best in slot gear", the talent which provides the least dps per point is Pyroclasm. With 3.1.2 that changes and Pyroclasm gets better than Backlash per point.

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsAfct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_backlash
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGqd0uVsAfct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_pyroclasm
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsVfct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_emp_imp
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsAf0t
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_backdraft
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsAbct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58-no_fire_and_brimstone
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsAfcz
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_03_13_55-replenishment
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IcZcu0h0hZVbGVdzuVsifct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armo
r/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/
life_tap
Warlock_T8_Gear.simcraft
tier7_2pc=0
tier7_4pc=0
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

Madlax · 05/15/09, 12:31 PM

I´m looking for some insight on the Destro build:
I´d like to have the 2nd point in Destructive Reach aswell as the point in shadowfury for Pve and therefore I´m wondering which points are best to drop for minimal dps loss.

My personal feeling would tell me Empowered Imp - has anyone calced it down for patch 3.1.2 yet?

Bandoer · 05/15/09, 1:03 PM

If you have other people in the raid with replenishment, you can leave off Soul Leach/Improved Soul Leach. I think movement fights also greatly diminish the value of Improved Soul Leach for personal dps, in comparison to the Patchwerk modeling we have.

32103940 · 05/15/09, 1:51 PM

I cant seem to get 13/58 to work on 3.1.2 settings. The other dps values seem to be the same as the first post, except 13/58. I opened the html file produced and the mana usage chart was weird. It appears that the simulator stopped lifetapping at around 150s..any clues?

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.2 (iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)

DPS Ranking:
  49583 100.0%  Raid
   7603  15.3%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18_DG
   7277  14.7%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18
   7094  14.3%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30
   6998  14.1%  Warlock_T8_00_40_31
   6932  14.0%  Warlock_T8_03_52_16
   6907  13.9%  Warlock_T8_00_13_58
   6853  13.8%  Warlock_T8_00_56_15

simcraft max_time=300 optimal_raid=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58
level=80
talents=http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZcu0h0hZVbGVdcuVsAfct
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/

fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/life_tap,glyph=1/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_hit_Gear.simcraft
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

Grimrage · 05/15/09, 2:07 PM

Two things I note that may affect it. The first is that you have a line break between actions in the actions= line. Not sure if the code will register the additional options that sit on their own line (firestone, fel armor, imp). It should be easy to check, though. If you have an imp dealing damage in the output detail then it summoned the pet.

The other is that you still have the life tap option with the glyph but you don't have the glyph. No need for the option, but that's probably just a visual thing since the problem before was that it would never get past if you were missing the glyph and you'd have no damage done.

To the other question regarding life tap usage, it's an average graph. Since it's not trying to life tap on schedule it just life taps as needed. This results in the graph showing an average where the mana stays at a non-zero level but never displays clear spikes.

32103940 · 05/15/09, 6:02 PM

No go to both suggestions.. chaos bolt is not even close to 7k dps let alone be #1 at 7.7k as per the front page post. I used r2288 (01may, latest afaik, just checked). The only changes i made to the default pack is to add patch=3.1.2 and change no of iterations from 1000 to 30000 in the t8_globals file. Unless im doing wrong, I think it's not possible to replicate the results, as seen here, where 3pt suppression chaos bolt (unedited provided profile) is bottom rank:

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.2 (iterations=30000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)

DPS Ranking:
  49507 100.0%  Raid
   7603  15.3%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18_DG
   7280  14.7%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18
   7091  14.3%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30
   6996  14.1%  Warlock_T8_00_40_31
   6939  14.0%  Warlock_T8_03_52_16
   6851  13.8%  Warlock_T8_00_56_15
   6831  13.8%  Warlock_T8_03_13_55

• Zakalwe · 05/15/09, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by 32103940

No go to both suggestions.. chaos bolt is not even close to 7k dps let alone be #1 at 7.7k as per the front page post. I used r2288 (01may, latest afaik, just checked). The only changes i made to the default pack is to add patch=3.1.2 and change no of iterations from 1000 to 30000 in the t8_globals file. Unless im doing wrong, I think it's not possible to replicate the results, as seen here, where 3pt suppression chaos bolt (unedited provided profile) is bottom rank:

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.1.2 (iterations=30000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1)

DPS Ranking:
  49507 100.0%  Raid
   7603  15.3%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18_DG
   7280  14.7%  Warlock_T8_53_00_18
   7091  14.3%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30
   6996  14.1%  Warlock_T8_00_40_31
   6939  14.0%  Warlock_T8_03_52_16
   6851  13.8%  Warlock_T8_00_56_15
   6831  13.8%  Warlock_T8_03_13_55

There hasn't been a new simcraft release since the 3.1.2 PTR was released. The only way to simulate 3.1.2 mechanics right now is to get a version from SVN and compile it yourself.

32103940 · 05/16/09, 12:02 PM

OK that definitely explains alot.

Esarus · 05/17/09, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by PawnedDaily

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...31051335230351

I've followed this thread and haven't seen this build tested. Perhaps i missed it, but it seems at first glance that 3 points in unholy power would be worth more dps than soul leech & imp soul leech if your raid already has replenishment.

The 12% extra Imp damage from 3/5 Unholy Power is less of a damage increase over Improved Soul Leech. Imp Soul Leech doesn't only give Replenishment, it gives you 2% of total mana everytime it procs too. This gives the Warlock more time to DPS instead of lifetapping, eventually giving a higher DPS increase than Unholy Power.

Oh and if you don't want to go Imp Soul Leech, 3/3 Supression in Affliction is a much better alternative than Unholy Power.

Marco · 05/17/09, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by PawnedDaily

Thats 60*72 for 4320 dmg in one gcd. I think the only spell that would meet that dmg/cast time requirement would be COD.

I would hope that almost any spell you might cast would do 4320 damage per GCD, since that's only 2880-4320 dps (depending on haste).

Any fight that requires movement were you can essentially life tap for free further reduces the value of imp soul leech. That's almost every fight in ulduar.

That argument gets brought up every couple of pages; some people find it to be true for themselves and some don't. I don't have a strong opinion either way, but Simulationcraft is about simulating Patchwerk fights; it's up to players to adjust that information for real-world fights. You can run sims with infinite_mana=1 if you want to discount the effect of ISL and spirit on life tap frequency.

shadestrider · 05/18/09, 4:02 PM

For Warlock_T8_00_13_58, I see:

actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap

I am not familiar with the Simulationcraft's syntax, but it looks like you're only considering CoD if you have more than 90 secs left. Is CoA considered in case it's less than 90 secs? And why is this value not 60?