SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 102

Esarus · 05/19/09, 11:33 AM

If you look at the WoW PTR patchnotes there is no Conflagrate Glyph change in them, nor is there in the patchnotes MMO-Champion has on their frontpage. Check Blizzard's: WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes

So no need to worry. The patch will go live with the Conflagrate Glyph working as it does on live right now.

brashar · 05/19/09, 11:34 AM

Ok cool, the wife linked my the actual patch notes that come with the patch. Not on any website, so I wanted to make sure what really got changed.

nuibank · 05/19/09, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Warlockx

I had a question on the sim craft for 0/13/58:

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_13_58
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...31051335230351
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
glyph_conflagrate=1
glyph_incinerate=1
glyph_immolate=1

Basically why is Life tap in the rotation IF you don't have the life tap glyph and you have replenishment? Am I missing something here? Or is that an error? Either way this would throw off the sim right? Because: if you are lifetapping without the glyph that would lower DPS so the sim should actually be higher OR if you are using the life tap glyph + the 3 others the sim is off and should actually be lower right?

All warlock specs require mana.

duhwhat · 05/19/09, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by Warlockx

Basically why is Life tap in the rotation IF you don't have the life tap glyph and you have replenishment?

The way I'm reading that action priority list is that if have enough mana to cast Incinerate, that will always be preferentially performed instead of Life Tap. In other words, the actions are checked from left to right, and only if you have no mana to cast any of them will you get to the end of the list and tap.

If you want to compare the frequency of taps performed by an ISL vs. no ISL build, you'll have to find a simcraft output file.

mischief · 05/19/09, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by rutiene

Are you looking on the right page? WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes has the 3.1.2 patch notes, and there is no mention of a Glyph of Conflag change.

The website's patch notes are fine, but the notes in the actual patch say there was a change. However, the glyph works the same as it did before the patch - conflag doesn't consume immo.

I'm curious what the policy should be (in 0/13/58) with clipping immolate. Since it increases both incinerate and chaos bolt by 15%, is it worth clipping immo to make sure inc. and c.b. land with immo up on the target? Also, suppose you have an immolate with only a few seconds (~5) left on the target and conflag is up. Should the cast sequence be

immo -> conflag -> c.b. -> inc -> inc?

Or should it be

conflag -> c.b. -> immo (to make sure its up when inc hits) -> inc -> inc?

The second rotation wastes the haste from conflag on refreshing immo, but the first rotation clips immo with a refresh to reserve the conflag haste for c.b. and incinerate. Any thought? Thanks.

Evyle · 05/19/09, 8:05 PM

I am not sure if they have fixed it yet but clipping immolate has proven to be very bad in the past. Quite often you could recast immolate with some duration left on the target only to not reapply the dot. You would still get the direct damage portion but your dot duration would not reset to 15 seconds. This can happen if your spell power was a little higher when the first immolate was cast then when you try to apply the second.

So in the case where immolate was going to end soon I may do a life tap (or even coa/corr - but leaning toward life tap) if in need of mana or possibly just another incinerate. That one incinerate may not get the added 25%, but that way you could make sure your next immolate went full duration

HellMuT · 05/19/09, 8:14 PM

If not hit capped, what would be the the value of hit rating, specifically for 0/13/58? Would it be worth valued more than 3/13/55 values it because it has hit talents?

Viper007Bond · 05/19/09, 8:38 PM

Does anyone know at which point 0/13/58 overtakes 3/15/55? I assume it's 2 set or 4 set T8, but I am not sure. Any insight?

Originally Posted by HellMuT

If not hit capped, what would be the the value of hit rating, specifically for 0/13/58? Would it be worth valued more than 3/13/55 values it because it has hit talents?

Hit rating is usually the most important stat for all specs as a missed spell is a wasted cast, wasted mana, etc.

jeffason · 05/19/09, 11:07 PM

What are you guys pulling on training dummy with 0/13/58? I'm pulling right at 4k

Kalku · 05/20/09, 12:51 AM

I have some questions about 0/13/58 that I can't answer as the latest 3.1.2 mechanics are not in the simcraft release.

1) Spellstone vs Firestone, how big a difference is it?
2) When not casting Doom, is it worth casting CoA? How big a difference is it?
3) Is it worth casting Corr? How big a difference is it?
4) How much do you loose by dropping a point in Imp. Soul Leech for -5% threat?

• Zakalwe · 05/20/09, 1:06 AM

Please stop thinking numbers from the dummies are relevant. You have much more spell power and haste in a raid, both of which make incinerate outscale corruption. And the paltry 60 haste offered by the untalented spellstone doesn't beat a 1% boost to virtually all your damage.

Lonecurse · 05/20/09, 1:08 AM

Originally Posted by jeffason

What are you guys pulling on training dummy with 0/13/58? I'm pulling right at 4k

about 4.4-4.5k over a 5 minute time trial on the dummies. That's about 10% more than I'd get with 0/41/30 and with much greater self sustainability.

I'm making a few errors still, but overall I'm very impressed. Plus I like the flexibility of being able to throw in Life taps as a filler as needed for mana more at my discretion, rather than at a mandatory 20 second frequency. Remains to be seen how it plays in Ulduar though.

...Just managed to get a pug VoA25 and it performed 5.2k for the fight. Fully raid buffed except for neither flask nor Elemental shaman on board. Again, that's better than I've had with 0/41/30 with FULL consumables/buffs and there's still room for me to bugger it up a bit less.

Expiration · 05/20/09, 7:50 AM

Sorry if this question seems totally noobish, but wanted to get your feedback now that the changes are live. With only a couple of pieces of Ulduar/T8 gear, would you recommend going 0/13/58 now or sticking with 3/13/55 until obtaining more? Or a simpler way to phrase it would be at what point in gear would you feel the switch would be best...if there's even a need to wait at all?

Borodin · 05/20/09, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by Kalku

I have some questions about 0/13/58 that I can't answer as the latest 3.1.2 mechanics are not in the simcraft release.

1) Spellstone vs Firestone, how big a difference is it?
2) When not casting Doom, is it worth casting CoA? How big a difference is it?
3) Is it worth casting Corr? How big a difference is it?
4) How much do you loose by dropping a point in Imp. Soul Leech for -5% threat?

Without being able to put numbers on it right now I can give your brief answers as I've been following developments closely:

1. Firestone is better for deep Destruction due to the vast majority of all damage done being direct rather than periodic.
Remember that some of those Direct spells just got buffed too (Incinerate and CB via Fire and Brimstone and even an increased frequency of Conflagrate Crits).

2. Yes, when there is no time for a Doom you use CoA, some even start their CoAs at 90s seconds remaining. Assuming you don't need to cast CotE that is.

3. No it's not worth using Corruption in a Raid DPS Rotation. Obviously you can fire it off during a movement phase.

4. Lose not loose. I can't put a figure on this either of course - you will have to study the thread for the work on Improved Soul Leech.

duhwhat · 05/20/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Borodin

2. Yes, when there is no time for a Doom you use CoA, some even start their CoAs at 90s seconds remaining. Assuming you don't need to cast CotE that is.

Untalented, unglyphed CoA without Molten Core is about a 5 dps increase if you can stay in Affliction range. I'd consider this a marginal to negligible DPS increase that is probably outweighed by the luxury of staying in 1/2 Destructive Reach range for the last 90 seconds.