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Old 10/12/10, 6:52 PM   #2676
Sephirah
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Do pets scales correctly with crit and HoG (+10% pet crit) buff?
On the PTR dummy, with my ~27% crit, my FG had ~38% crit with Legion Strike and Felstorm and ~28% with melee.
In the sim I see 28% crit for all FG abilities and 11% for Imp and Succubus.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:06 PM   #2677
Thebeave
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Staghelm
Spirit DPS

I have a question regarding the stat weight values for spirit..... Is the dps gain from spirit strictly based on having fewer life taps in the rotation, or does the tooltip for fel armor on the PTR leave out the sp boost from spirit? It just seems like a pretty high value for spirit..... even more than mastery for some specs...


*Edit: Okay I'm just being dumb, I figured SP referred to spirit, not spell power.

Feel free to delete this post lol

Last edited by Thebeave : 10/12/10 at 7:12 PM.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:08 PM   #2678
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by matthewseidl View Post
Those graphs still have the big dps drop after 4m though, so I'm still wondering if the imp is oom. This would also account for him missing ~30 casts I believe. I don't know of a way to get a graph from simulationcraft for the pets mana though.
Based on no actual data, I want to believe the imp is not actually going oom. In terms of the DPS graph at 100 seconds in we summon our Doomguard (80% of base mana, so there's a noted drop in mana on that graph) and dps rises a bit, then towards the end of the fight (I'm guessing here, because I didn't root around and find the specifics), at about 35%, we gain Heroism/Bloodlust, and dps goes up once more, after that it drops off again to more normal levels, but generally stays above the 15k line, until the end where it drops off a bit more, but at that point (I believe) we're running into conditions where it's not longer worth refreshing certain DoTs and we're left with filler and whatever else stays viable in terms of DPET.

Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
I don't believe the imp will actually go OOM in a real raid situation. We have no knowledge about how pet mana regen scales, and it actually doesn't scale at all in the simcraft he used. I just committed a fix that pretends it scales with the owner's intellect - that should put us in a slightly more realistic place, at least.

The OP is up-to-date now.
Awesome, I'll continue my fiddling!

The next things on my list of inquiries are:

Improved Soul Fire: I ran a profile that used soul fire as soon as the cooldown of the effect was up and only gained 30ish dps, and then I looked into it and noticed that SimCraft seems to think it's 30 seconds, when I believe it should be 15; so I'm curious what the numbers would look like if that were changed/fixed/updated.

Pre-Soulburning: I seem to recall I was able to soulburn and then soul harvest and still have ~9 seconds to get into combat, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. If it's still the case, there's a 4th soulburn for us.

Shadowburn on Add-fights: Is this viable, or has Blizzard changed the way boss adds count in terms of qualifying for honor/exp, thus making this question moot?

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Old 10/12/10, 7:10 PM   #2679
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Erowulf View Post
Improved Soul Fire: I ran a profile that used soul fire as soon as the cooldown of the effect was up and only gained 30ish dps, and then I looked into it and noticed that SimCraft seems to think it's 30 seconds, when I believe it should be 15; so I'm curious what the numbers would look like if that were changed/fixed/updated.
The tooltip says it has a 30 second cooldown, are you saying that's wrong?

Norway Online
Old 10/12/10, 7:15 PM   #2680
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
The tooltip says it has a 30 second cooldown, are you saying that's wrong?
I believe so, but since the servers aren't up I can't verify that. :P It was 15 seconds on the PTR, if I recall correctly, and MMO-Champion had it reported as 15 seconds in one of their PTR build updates. Imp Soul Fire as MMO perceives it. I doubt that is definitive enough to warrant a change for you guys though, right?

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Old 10/12/10, 7:16 PM   #2681
Sephirah
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
The tooltip says it has a 30 second cooldown, are you saying that's wrong?
It has been changed in the PTR Build 13156 to
Improved Soul Fire effect now has a 15 sec cooldown, down from 30 sec.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:18 PM   #2682
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Caltiom View Post
Some options i can recommend if you want to analyze things more deeply:
Thanks for the suggestions!
I always run:
iterations=25000
vary_combat_length=0.20
calculate_scale_factors=1
center_scale_delta=1
target_level=83
I'll add in some of those others.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:20 PM   #2683
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Yeah, I just checked, looks like it's reflected in our latest spell data too. What makes you say the sim thinks it's 30 seconds?

Norway Online
Old 10/12/10, 7:25 PM   #2684
Sephirah
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Yeah, I just checked, looks like it's reflected in our latest spell data too. What makes you say the sim thinks it's 30 seconds?
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.4  refresh=0.0   interval= 30.7 trigger=30.7  uptime=12%  benefit=12%
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.3  refresh=0.0   interval= 31.9 trigger=31.9  uptime=12%  benefit=11%
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.4  refresh=0.0   interval= 30.7 trigger=30.7  uptime=12%  benefit=13%

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Old 10/12/10, 7:30 PM   #2685
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Oh now, well, I'm sorry then! I should just keep my mouth shut until I learn a little more.

When I ran my profile without the soulburn condition for soul fire, it returned this:
Dynamic Buffs		Start	Refresh	Interval	Trigger	Up-Time	Benefit
improved_soul_fire	2.2	0.0	33.9sec		33.9sec	11%	10%

Resulted from action: soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=0
This, I guess, lead me to think that something was off, since the uptime is just about 10% (half of what I would expect), and the interval is about 30 seconds + cast/travel time of a new soul fire.
I could definately be reading or interpreting that incorrectly though!

Edit: That wasn't supposed to sound snarky, by the way, so I hope it doesn't come across that way!

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Old 10/12/10, 7:36 PM   #2686
whi
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warlock
 
Bronzebeard (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
The tooltip says it has a 30 second cooldown, are you saying that's wrong?
I can confirm that on PTR it had a 15sec duration and a 15sec cooldown, so you couldn't refresh it early, but could keep it up 100% of the time(as long as target's hps let you anyways).

Another thing i noticed today when PTRs were supposed to be down already is that backdrafted Incinerates were actually better than Searing Pain >50%. No idea what changed, maybe Shadow & Flame fix was enough? At least Searing Pain's coefficient seemed still out of whack if the tooltips don't lie now(2.5/3.5).

E: Wow, im slow, but still - it should have ~20% uptime, ~15sec interval in my opinion, as i could cast another soulfire 1 sec before the old buff dropped and have it "refreshed".

Last edited by whi : 10/12/10 at 7:43 PM.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:47 PM   #2687
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
A little napkin math on 3/3 imp corr vs 3/3 s&f for demonology_sp
current spec corr + incin dps vs imp corr corr + incin dps
dps(0.08+0.05) - dps(0.08*1.12+0.05*0.88)
0.13dps - 0,1336dps = -0.0036dps
so we gain 0,36% dps, 57,9924 dps by speccing corr instead of incinerate!
Whether or not this shows in the sim, I'll just wait and see but napkin math is just napkin math!

Last edited by Naforce : 10/12/10 at 8:30 PM.

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Old 10/12/10, 7:58 PM   #2688
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Sephirah View Post
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.4  refresh=0.0   interval= 30.7 trigger=30.7  uptime=12%  benefit=12%
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.3  refresh=0.0   interval= 31.9 trigger=31.9  uptime=12%  benefit=11%
improved_soul_fire                : start=2.4  refresh=0.0   interval= 30.7 trigger=30.7  uptime=12%  benefit=13%
This is just because the profile only casts soul fire when either soulburn or empowered imp is up. That should probably be changed given the 15 second cooldown though.

Originally Posted by Erowulf View Post
When I ran my profile without the soulburn condition for soul fire, it returned this:
Dynamic Buffs		Start	Refresh	Interval	Trigger	Up-Time	Benefit
improved_soul_fire	2.2	0.0	33.9sec		33.9sec	11%	10%

Resulted from action: soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=0
Maybe you're not running with patch=4.0.1 or something? If you set patch to 4.0.3 you'll get the data from the beta client, which still has the cooldown at 30 seconds.

Norway Online
Old 10/12/10, 8:12 PM   #2689
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Maybe you're not running with patch=4.0.1 or something? If you set patch to 4.0.3 you'll get the data from the beta client, which still has the cooldown at 30 seconds.
Aha!

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Old 10/12/10, 8:22 PM   #2690
Solrael
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Naforce View Post
A little napkin math on 3/3 imp corr vs 3/3 s&f for demonology_sp
current spec corr - incin dps vs imp corr corr + incin dps
dps(0.08+0.05) - dps(0.08*1.12+0.05*0.88)
0.13dps - 0,1336dps = -0.0036dps
so we gain 0,36% dps, 57,9924 dps by speccing corr instead of incinerate!
Whether or not this shows in the sim, I'll just wait and see but napkin math is just napkin math!
The sim does agree with the napkin math, coming in 60 dps ahead on my quick test.

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Old 10/12/10, 8:53 PM   #2691
Warlocomotif
Don Flamenco
 
Warlocomotif's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
At the moment Mana feed is giving 4x total mana instead of 4% total mana for each proc, I don't have commit access but I believe Althor is committing a fix now.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

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Old 10/12/10, 9:03 PM   #2692
Erowulf
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Erowulf View Post
Pre-Soulburning: I seem to recall I was able to soulburn and then soul harvest and still have ~9 seconds to get into combat, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. If it's still the case, there's a 4th soulburn for us.
Confirmed as working on live. ^_^ Assuming your tank gives you a nice count-down for potions and such, you can also pre-burn. (I was using it to start the Imp SF buff rolling on PTR, guess that'll probably be the plan on live too.)

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Old 10/12/10, 9:09 PM   #2693
Solrael
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by cloud4905 View Post
I came up with a prospective affliction raiding build on my own, but I was wondering what the theory-crafters have come up with so far
To find the current talent choices for the top dps specs discussed in this thread, go to the first post, click on the "profile" (eg Warlock_401_Affliction) which will take you to a simc file (it may look a bit daunting if you haven't seen one before), just copy and paste the address from either of the "talents=" lines (though currently the wowarmory links are down due to maintenance).

If you're not familiar with simc files it's worth learning to understand them as they indicate how the spec is to be played. As a basic starting point, the "actions+=" lines are like a priority list, do whichever is the highest in the list that you can do, and if you can't do any of the other options do the last option (eg life tap because you don't have mana for the others).

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Old 10/12/10, 9:09 PM   #2694
Gerant
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Zul'Jin
Gah, wrong topic. Please delete as this topic is about 4.0.1 numbers specifically.

Last edited by Gerant : 10/12/10 at 9:12 PM. Reason: accidentally posted in wrong topic

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Old 10/12/10, 9:15 PM   #2695
Krasher
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Laughing Skull
I notice that in the models the Chaotic Skyflare is still the model Meta but since spirit is dead for warlocks is it worth re-examining that? Although I guess there aren't that many viable options but maybe Ember Skyflare is better now overall?

Trying to dump all my blues for reds and yellows at this point since haste scaling apparently went through the roof and the 2blue req on Chaotic seems very detrimental.

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Old 10/12/10, 9:27 PM   #2696
Mystearica
Von Kaiser
 
Mystearica's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Krasher View Post
I notice that in the models the Chaotic Skyflare is still the model Meta but since spirit is dead for warlocks is it worth re-examining that? Although I guess there aren't that many viable options but maybe Ember Skyflare is better now overall?

Trying to dump all my blues for reds and yellows at this point since haste scaling apparently went through the roof and the 2blue req on Chaotic seems very detrimental.
Hit is now blue & we need to wear 17% hit for raiding. Hitting the Meta will be fairly easy.

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Old 10/12/10, 9:38 PM   #2697
Sonicator
Glass Joe
 
Sonicator's Avatar
 
Human Warlock
 
Ragnaros (EU)
Seems like Affliction drain got buffed for something with the recent changes

* Drain Life now restores 2% health every 1 sec, up from 0.5 sec. Lasts 1.5 sec, down from 3 sec. Now costs 12% of base mana, down from 17% of base mana.

However, that seems a bit weird, im guessing it ticks every 0.5sec instead of current 1 sec. Though however this should render soulburn DL next to useless cause cast time going to 0.75sec is below GCD and clips us, so would it be worth using SB SF instead?

Also there is a change with Destruction it seems.

* Searing Pain now costs 18% of base mana, up from 12% of base mana.
* Improved Soul Fire no longer requires your target to be above 80% health.
* Improved Searing Pain now affects at or below

Also, I've been wanting to ask after quick reading throughout the topic and not spotting, is the dmg modifiers & crit modifiers still rolling now or have they fixed that? And since corruption doesn't refresh anymore, is it worth doing it below 25% for UA?

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Old 10/12/10, 10:09 PM   #2698
Krasher
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Warlock
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Mystearica View Post
Hit is now blue & we need to wear 17% hit for raiding. Hitting the Meta will be fairly easy.
Yeah I just realized that doing the weekly. Guess I regemmed and reforged for nothing.

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Old 10/12/10, 10:27 PM   #2699
Zurriel
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
That should probably be changed given the 15 second cooldown though.
Unless I'm missing something, the tooltip CD for Soulburn says it lasts for 15 seconds but has a 45 second cooldown.
Edit: This is taken from 4.0.1 live

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Old 10/12/10, 11:19 PM   #2700
Solrael
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Goretech67 View Post
I would suggest trying to sim multi target fights with shadowburn in the spec. Take Halion for example. Constantly switching to adds you may shadow burn to refill your shard allotment for more soulburns aka insta soulfires. Think about it. Big add spawns you soul fire for the haste buff from improved Soulfire. You will eventually run out of shards and this will help refresh them.
food for thought
I was curious about shadowburn myself, putting it into simcraft as a regular spell below 20% seems to be a 10 dps increase over full SP (if I'm doing it right 10 dps is obviously very minor, but it is instant cast and it's not a dps loss. It's also possible I'm doing it wrong). Plus it doesn't have the threat increase of SP, and as you mention has the opportunity to refill the soul shards (assuming it works on boss adds).

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