SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 11

Raugturi · 02/28/09, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by cognomon

For 0/41/30 you can take one point out of master summoner and that frees up one point for demonic tactics further down.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

Actually I think you're taking a point from Molten Core there, not Master Summoner. I would have thought that giving up ~15% MC uptime for 2% crit would be a bad trade-off, but it looks I might be wrong on that. When I run the sim with this spec it does come out slightly ahead. For 30k iterations I got 6049 with your spec vs 6032 from the first spec.

cognomon · 02/28/09, 1:42 AM

Sorry, I was confused. I kept going over this a few times and wondering where the exta point was going.The OP build doesn't have a point mana feed and I didn't notice. I think for the OPs 0/41/30 spec one point should be moved out of master summoner into mana feed. I agree that the extra point in MC is debatable, and that wasn't my point, just an oversight.

henslaved · 02/28/09, 4:03 AM

Would someone please run this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

It seems to me on a common sense level that another point in Demonic Tactics would be better than Demonic Empowerment, but we all know how common sense compares to reality.

Justification: ~80% of the Felguard's damage is white
20% haste is up 25% of the time.
You're increasing his damage by 4% (.8 * .05).
Say on a high estimate he makes up 30% of your damage in a fight. This puts Demonic Empowerment at a 1.2% dps increase.
Let's be generous and round up to 2%, which is WAY too high, to compensate for stacking it with cooldowns.

Now look at Demonic Tactics. By itself it increases pet dps by 2% (0.6% total dps increase). I would presume that 2% personal crit is greater than a 1.4% dps increase, and even if it isn't we highballed the hell out of the DEmpowerment estimate.

Feel free to make me look like an idiot if this is way off.

Naforce · 02/28/09, 4:50 AM

Originally Posted by henslaved

Would someone please run this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

It seems to me on a common sense level that another point in Demonic Tactics would be better than Demonic Empowerment, but we all know how common sense compares to reality.

Justification: ~80% of the Felguard's damage is white
20% haste is up 25% of the time.
You're increasing his damage by 4% (.8 * .05).
Say on a high estimate he makes up 30% of your damage in a fight. This puts Demonic Empowerment at a 1.2% dps increase.
Let's be generous and round up to 2%, which is WAY too high, to compensate for stacking it with cooldowns.

Now look at Demonic Tactics. By itself it increases pet dps by 2% (0.6% total dps increase). I would presume that 2% personal crit is greater than a 1.4% dps increase, and even if it isn't we highballed the hell out of the DEmpowerment estimate.

Feel free to make me look like an idiot if this is way off.

I must agree with you, it does sound better at first, but since 1% crit is like 42 crit rating or so, those 2% would be 84 crit rating which would be equal to about 50dps increase, Warlocks will hopefully in general be doing around 5k dps, so 50 is 1%, so it would be more or less equal. I'm interested in what simcraft shows though! Let's wait and see.

Raugturi · 02/28/09, 5:24 AM

Warlock_T8_00_41_30 = original build
Warlock_T8_00_41_30_2 = cognomon's build
Warlock_T8_00_41_30_3 = henslaved's build

Bear in mind this is with T7 gear. In T8 gear 1% might pass 84 crit rating.

DPS Ranking:
  52142 100.0%  Raid
   6079  11.6%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30_3
   6048  11.6%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30_2
   6030  11.5%  Warlock_T8_00_41_30

I'm not sure if Zakalwe has some newer code for the simulator, so hopefully he can run them using all the same settings and code to be sure it's a fair comparison. These are using the latest version off of SVN though.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 6:21 AM

I do have some new code for decimation - it needs to be cleaned up a bit before I can commit to SVN, but after testing on PTR I decided weaving 1xFiller-1xSF is viable enough to warrant being modeled. Doing so results in around a 50DPS increase for all three demo specs.

Testing with this latest code shows 3/5 DT, 0/1 DE and 2/3 MC is best for 0/41/30, while 2/5 DT, 0/1 DE and 3/3 MC is best for 0/40/31.

Naforce · 02/28/09, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

I do have some new code for decimation - it needs to be cleaned up a bit before I can commit to SVN, but after testing on PTR I decided weaving 1xFiller-1xSF is viable enough to warrant being modeled. Doing so results in around a 50DPS increase for all three demo specs.

Testing with this latest code shows 3/5 DT, 0/1 DE and 2/3 MC is best for 0/41/30, while 2/5 DT, 0/1 DE and 3/3 MC is best for 0/40/31.

could you please edit your first post to include this?

Anyakfe · 02/28/09, 6:42 AM

Page 1, as affli you suggest
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

I got better results (~+10dps) using this one:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

Naforce · 02/28/09, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Anyakfe

Page 1, as affli you suggest
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

I got better results (~+10dps) using this one:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

Did you try taking 1p from demonic power and putting it in eradication aswell?

Also, Zakalwe, the 5/13/53 spec seems a bit odd to me. All the other specs are using a hit capped played, whilst this one isn't, yet the stats have barely improved (just a little crit). How would that this 05/13/53 spec perform with a hitcapped player (the same player as used on the other tests)?

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Naforce

could you please edit your first post to include this?

Done, and it's all been committed to SVN as well. In addition to the minor spec changes, it turns out 0/41/30 and 0/40/31 should both drop corruption from their rotation below 35%.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:16 AM

Originally Posted by Anyakfe

Page 1, as affli you suggest
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

I got better results (~+10dps) using this one:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

How many iterations did you run? I've compared these several times with 10k+ iterations, and the one with 2/2 aftermath tends to come out on top by just 3-6 DPS. Such tiny differences are generally too small to be conclusive unless you run 100k+ iterations anyway - all it means is it doesn't really matter where you put that last point, you get to pick.

Originally Posted by Naforce

Did you try taking 1p from demonic power and putting it in eradication aswell?

I've tried that, it's a loss.

Originally Posted by Naforce

Also, Zakalwe, the 5/13/53 spec seems a bit odd to me. All the other specs are using a hit capped played, whilst this one isn't, yet the stats have barely improved (just a little crit). How would that this 05/13/53 spec perform with a hitcapped player (the same player as used on the other tests)?

That link doesn't work.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:20 AM

One thing to keep in mind regarding the Decimation weaving is that it assumes a certain range from the boss, meaning you can't do it during Metamorphosis if you also want to be using Immolation, which the sim doesn't currently account for. So the Meta spec is being slightly overvalued in the currently posted results.

Naforce · 02/28/09, 7:30 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

That link doesn't work.

this should work

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:37 AM

5436 50.2% Warlock_T8_05_13_53
5399 49.8% Warlock_T8_05_13_53_corr

Corruption just isn't good enough to be worth boosting. My destro profile doesn't even cast it.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:47 AM

I think destro's problem is that it's got all its best talents in the first half of the tree. Other trees can easily dip into destro and get a lot of good stuff, but if you decide to go deep in destro you're left with 18-20 points and nothing good to do with them.