SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 112

Rhadamanthis · 06/20/09, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by kindlin

Kind of off topic, and I'm sorry, but I would absolutely love some way to estimate the relative DPS of various stats on my mage. This program does it wonderfully for warlocks, but none of the mage threads have amazing ways to do it for mages. Unless rawr does this? But I didn't see that. Thanks in advance for any help in my search.

Simulationcraft is compatible with mages.

Anyakfe · 06/20/09, 1:48 PM

Hum about

if ( p -> active_immolate){
if (sim->patch.after(3,2,0))
player_multiplier *= 1 + 0.03 * p -> talents.fire_and_brimstone;
else
if (sim -> P312 )
player_multiplier *= 1 + 0.02 * p -> talents.fire_and_brimstone;
}

It seems it's done in the wrong way.
The coefficient should be 0.02 for Patch 3.2.0 and 0.03 for P312

nenad · 06/20/09, 2:53 PM

Yes, fixed.

TogTogTogTog · 06/22/09, 8:47 AM

i have a question, according to the first post, http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...31051335230351
is the most effective personal dps spec.

But wouldn't http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9767
be the most effective raid dps spec assuming another person is bringing replenishment?

According to my simcraft its correct. But I currently cannot download the newest version, does anyone have the newest simcraft and shouldn't we list this on the front page if you come out with the same numbers as me?

Mystearica · 06/22/09, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by TogTogTogTog

i have a question, according to the first post, http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...31051335230351
is the most effective personal dps spec.

But wouldn't http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9767
be the most effective raid dps spec assuming another person is bringing replenishment?

According to my simcraft its correct. But I currently cannot download the newest version, does anyone have the newest simcraft and shouldn't we list this on the front page if you come out with the same numbers as me?

0/13/58 spec is the best dps spec not beause of replenish, but because of the ISL procs. Which save you GCDs to spend on doing DPS rather than Life Tapping.

achille · 06/22/09, 9:27 AM

My simcraft provides higher dps using glyph of immolate over glyph of lifetap not just for the 0-13-58 but also for the 03-13-55 spec, unless I've misconfigured something of course.

TogTogTogTog · 06/22/09, 11:13 AM

Sorry, it was early in the morning here. Let me clarify my last post. Wouldn't http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9767 be the highest DPS as of the newest Simcraft, the one taking into effect the next warlock buffs/nerfs as well. Seeing as how with the Lifetap Glyph soon to be 40s, that should make up for the 2% mana return and give your pet another 12% damage on firebolt.

Originally Posted by achille

My simcraft provides higher dps using glyph of immolate over glyph of lifetap not just for the 0-13-58 but also for the 03-13-55 spec, unless I've misconfigured something of course.

Also, as of now you are correct Glyph of Immolate is more effective then Glyph of Lifetap for both 0-13-58 and 3-13-55. It needs to be corrected on the first page. But seeing as we are running maths on lifetap now lasting for 40s, it will most likely not be updated until its confirmed which is better, for the next patch.

Saobuks · 06/24/09, 3:44 AM

Originally Posted by jsemon2

ehh, I'm not sure I would give up Soul Leech for a bigger cookie and Soul Link. Spec into improved cookies seems like wasted points.

ISL doesn't work on Vezax. Soul link will help you survive the surges on phase 2 and a bigger healthstone will benefit the entire raid's survivability.

Madkappa · 06/24/09, 4:31 AM

With all due respect, you shouldn't need Soul Link to survive anything on Vezax, much less Vezax hard. The only time you should be taking damage is during the Animus, and 3/3 Soul Leech should be all the help you need to get through that, if your healers are up to the hard mode.

robmoss2k · 06/24/09, 10:31 AM

I've tried to generate an updated best in slot Ulduar gear set now that we know what Algalon drops. These are the results of 50k iterations of a 5 minute fight using the profiles contained in build 2532 (current at time of writing) of SimulationCraft with the new gear sets. Note that the 3/13/55 build now comes out ahead of the 0/13/58 build - this seems to be down to an apparent lack of hit on heroic hard mode gear, forcing the selection of an inferior ring in the second slot and the use of SP/hit gems.

Gear profile for no hit from talents:

# Added 75 spell power to account for profession-specific bonuses

# Standard Gear Attributes
gear_stamina=1088
gear_strength=0
gear_agility=0
gear_intellect=1070
gear_spirit=641
gear_attack_power=0
gear_expertise_rating=0
gear_armor_penetration_rating=0
gear_spell_power=2450
gear_hit_rating=369
gear_crit_rating=593
gear_haste_rating=446

tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1

# Meta Gem
chaotic_skyflare=1

# Item Procs
illustration_of_the_dragon_soul=1
flare_of_the_heavens=1

# -- Gear set --
# Head: Conqueror's Deathbringer Hood, Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Arcanum of Burning Mysteries
# Neck: Pendant of Fiery Havoc, Reckless Monarch Topaz
# Shoulders: Conqueror's Deathbringer Shoulderpads, Veiled Monarch Topaz, Greater Inscription of the Storm
# Chest: Conqueror's Deathbringer Robe, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Veiled Monarch Topaz, Powerful Stats
# Waist: Starwatcher's Binding, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Eternal Belt Buckle
# Legs: Conqueror's Deathbringer Leggings, Purified Twilight Opal, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Brilliant Spellthread
# Feet: Boots of Fiery Resolution, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Icewalker
# Wrist: Grasps of Reason, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Superior Spellpower
# Hands: Pharos Gloves, Purified Twilight Opal, Veiled Monarch Topaz, Exceptional Spellpower
# Finger 1: Shimmering Seal, Runed Scarlet Ruby
# Finger 2: Conductive Seal, Runed Scarlet Ruby
# Trinket 1: Flare of the Heavens
# Trinket 2: Illustration of the Dragon Soul
# Back: Drape of Mortal Downfall, Veiled Monarch Topaz, Greater Speed
# Main Hand: Starshard Edge, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Mighty Spellpower
# Off Hand: Cosmos
# Ranged: Petrified Ivy Sprig, Runed Scarlet Ruby

Gear profile for 3% hit from talents:

# Added 75 spell power to account for profession-specific bonuses

# Standard Gear Attributes
gear_stamina=1073
gear_strength=0
gear_agility=0
gear_intellect=1064
gear_spirit=619
gear_attack_power=0
gear_expertise_rating=0
gear_armor_penetration_rating=0
gear_spell_power=2455
gear_hit_rating=291
gear_crit_rating=639
gear_haste_rating=506

tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1

# Meta Gem
chaotic_skyflare=1

# Item Procs
illustration_of_the_dragon_soul=1
flare_of_the_heavens=1

# -- Gear set --
# Head: Conqueror's Deathbringer Hood, Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Arcanum of Burning Mysteries
# Neck: Pendant of Fiery Havoc, Reckless Monarch Topaz
# Shoulders: Conqueror's Deathbringer Shoulderpads, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Greater Inscription of the Storm
# Chest: Conqueror's Deathbringer Robe, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Powerful Stats
# Waist: Starwatcher's Binding, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Eternal Belt Buckle
# Legs: Conqueror's Deathbringer Leggings, Purified Twilight Opal, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Brilliant Spellthread
# Feet: Boots of Fiery Resolution, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Icewalker
# Wrist: Grasps of Reason, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Superior Spellpower
# Hands: Pharos Gloves, Purified Twilight Opal, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Exceptional Spellpower
# Finger 1: Nebula Band, Runed Scarlet Ruby
# Finger 2: Conductive Seal, Runed Scarlet Ruby
# Trinket 1: Flare of the Heavens
# Trinket 2: Illustration of the Dragon Soul
# Back: Drape of Mortal Downfall, Reckless Monarch Topaz, Greater Speed
# Main Hand: Starshard Edge, Runed Scarlet Ruby, Mighty Spellpower
# Off Hand: Cosmos
# Ranged: Petrified Ivy Sprig, Runed Scarlet Ruby

Turmeric · 06/24/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by robmoss2k

I've tried to generate an updated best in slot Ulduar gear set now that we know what Algalon drops.

I don't quite understand why we use Best in Slot gear as a benchmark for the SimCraft data. It's fair to say that if you can equip BiS gear (i.e. kill Algalon) then your DPS is pretty good anyways. I understand people will still want to min/max their output but it would seem more valuable if we chose our gear benchmarks to be at more realistic gear levels, say Normal mode full clear and a selection of early hard modes? That way more valuable and meaningful comparisons can be seen?

robmoss2k · 06/24/09, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Turmeric

I don't quite understand why we use Best in Slot gear as a benchmark for the SimCraft data.

We don't just use current best in slot gear. Check the OP. There are two linked gear sets. One is pre-Ulduar best in slot (T7 heroic instances all on farm) and the other is Ulduar best in slot (Ulduar heroic hard modes on farm). Anything in between is difficult to effectively quantify and largely pointless, as everyone is at different levels of progression and has their own unique set of acquired items and farmable hard modes - there is no fixed point around which to calculate. If you personally have done an easy mode clear plus, say, three hard modes, I suggest you go and download SimulationCraft, plug your own stats in, look at the LootRank or Wowhead pages your report links to and have a look at your very own upgrades list.

eredor · 06/25/09, 5:10 AM

For those who have a problem with threat being too high, I have listed 0/13/58 talent builds with 2 points in Destructive Reach. The DPS are calculated with the latest Simcraft version: 2352.

Please note that the 0/13/58 definition file from Simcraft does not use the same talent build as the one on the first post of this thread. I think this is a mistake and they should be the same.

Therefore Warlock_T8_00_13_58_WEB is the talent build found on post one and Warlock_T8_00_13_58 is the one found in the simcraft package.

SPEC	DPS	Change
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_WEB	7780	0.00%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_BACKLASH2OF3	7726	-0.69%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_DEMAEGIS2OF3	7720	-0.77%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_PYRO2OF3	7719	-0.78%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_EMPIMP2OF3	7711	-0.89%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58	7703	-0.99%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_ISL1OF2	7701	-1.02%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_DEMPOW1OF2	7701	-1.02%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_SAF4OF5	7648	-1.70%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_FB4OF5	7607	-2.22%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_EMBER4OF5	7531	-3.20%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_BACKDRAFT2OF3	7500	-3.60%

Update 2009/07/01: 2 new variations suggested by phimuajedi69 added.

robmoss2k · 06/25/09, 11:02 AM

They're based on certain ideal gear sets, and obviously the available hit gear and non-hit gear aren't going to be equally optimal for a certain set of builds - some will scale better than others.

Turmeric · 06/25/09, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by robmoss2k

If you personally have done an easy mode clear plus, say, three hard modes, I suggest you go and download SimulationCraft, plug your own stats in, look at the LootRank or Wowhead pages your report links to and have a look at your very own upgrades list.

I of course have read the OP and am aware of the pre-Ulduar gear comparison. Unfortunately this leaves a pretty big gulf in terms of gear options. Whilst I can and do run my own Simcraft I merely thought that adding a third gear level, roughly equivalent to 4xT8 and some common upgrades from the T7 set might make for more meaningful information for those who don't run Simcraft.

If the answer to every suggestion on augmenting the first post is "dload and run your own if you're not happy" then we could easily argue that the whole thread is redundant? I just believe that as a resource for warlocks striving to achieve their best we could do better in terms of the information we supply initially, thats all.