SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 114

Erowulf · 10/18/10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

No, this is in the game too. (e;fb)

In case you're a visual person and want to see for yourself Talimar, in this (terrible) log, my imp is in combat for about three minutes, so 180 seconds, and fires off 112 firebolts, which works out to about a 1.6 second cast time [...even with me mashing my buttons, which all contain "/cast [@pettarget] Firebolt" in them].

• Zakalwe · 10/18/10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Erowulf

Current Destruction Output (From Sim Wiki): Shadowflame: ≈600dps (so ≈775 in ICC) [less, of course, for sub-BiS profiles]

I think you're misunderstanding the output here. Shadowflame accounts for 594 of the DPS in the simulated fight, but if you didn't cast shadowflame you'd be spending the time casting something else instead, most likely incinerate. To calculate the real DPS loss you'd get from not casting shadowflame you need to look at the DPET numbers:

594 * (1 - (10434 / 13290)) = 128 DPS

Fucty · 10/18/10, 12:39 PM

According to the cast priority list Shadowflame is cast regardlessly if Immolate is up already. I assume it could result in more DPS if shadowflame is only being cast when dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+gcd. Is this really by intention?
Furthermore it has to be accounted that for Shadowflame not the full DPET should be acknowledged if it overrides the Immolate DOT. It should be more like a DPCT(Shadowflame) = (Shadowflame - Immolate(RemainingDOT)) / Casttime(Shadowflame) .

Yvgenie · 10/18/10, 12:40 PM

There is a bug in the affliction profile action list.

The profile says
actions+=/summon_doomguard,if=buff.bloodlust.react
but the html output says
summon_doomguard,if=buff.metamorphosis.react

and doesn't include any doomguard damage (no metamorphosis as affliction warlock...).

• Zakalwe · 10/18/10, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by Fucty

According to the cast priority list Shadowflame is cast regardlessly if Immolate is up already. I assume it could result in more DPS if shadowflame is only being cast when dot.immolate.remains<cast_time+gcd. Is this really by intention?
Furthermore it has to be accounted that for Shadowflame not the full DPET should be acknowledged if it overrides the Immolate DOT. It should be more like a DPCT(Shadowflame) = (Shadowflame - Immolate(RemainingDOT)) / Casttime(Shadowflame) .

I'm trying to make sense of what you're saying here. You seem to be under the impression that shadowflame and immolate are mutually exclusive? They're not.

moop · 10/18/10, 4:28 PM

I'm not sure how it's being modelled by SimulationCraft, but it seems that Bloodlust/Heroism and Improved Soul Fire are mutually exclusive, i.e. if I have the Improved Soul Fire buff and a Bloodlust/Heroism is used, it will remove the buff. Is the Destruction profile taking this "issue" (not sure if it's intended by Blizzard) into account? Since I can't seem to see anything in the action list which would suggest so.

Here are some extracts from my guild's World of Logs to back it up:

[19:11:54.783] Moop gains Improved Soul Fire from Moop
[19:11:59.378] Moop's Improved Soul Fire fades
[19:11:59.378] Moop gains Heroism from Trivial
[19:11:59.378] Moop afflicted by Exhaustion from Moop

• Zakalwe · 10/18/10, 5:03 PM

The sim is not taking it into account, no - it's news to me. We'll get that implemented correctly shortly.

For the time being, rest assured that it doesn't matter to the current results at all, as they are run with bloodlust towards the end of the fight.

Caltiom · 10/18/10, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by moop

I'm not sure how it's being modelled by SimulationCraft, but it seems that Bloodlust/Heroism and Improved Soul Fire are mutually exclusive, i.e. if I have the Improved Soul Fire buff and a Bloodlust/Heroism is used, it will remove the buff. Is the Destruction profile taking this "issue" (not sure if it's intended by Blizzard) into account? Since I can't seem to see anything in the action list which would suggest so.

Here are some extracts from my guild's World of Logs to back it up:

[19:11:54.783] Moop gains Improved Soul Fire from Moop
[19:11:59.378] Moop's Improved Soul Fire fades
[19:11:59.378] Moop gains Heroism from Trivial
[19:11:59.378] Moop afflicted by Exhaustion from Moop

Thanks a lot for this info.

Could you also test it the other way round, if you already have Bloodlust/Heroism up, will Improved Soul Fire override Bloodlust, or will there be no new Improved Soul Fire as long as Bloodlust is up?

I'll have to see how i code that into simcraft, really droping Improved Soul Fire when Bloodlust is triggered would need a buff_callback. Maybe we'll just negate the effect of Imp. Soul Fire with Bloodlust up.

moop · 10/18/10, 6:54 PM

I've tested it both ways; you cannot gain Improved Soul Fire within the duration of Bloodlust/Heroism, and if you have Improved Soul Fire, Bloodlust/Heroism will overwrite it. I've made a duplicate of my original post here in the Warlock Bugs thread to avoid cluttering this thread with off-topic discussion.

infamouslink · 10/18/10, 8:03 PM

Using the profile in the OP and the latest version of simcraft, shadowburn seems to have a slightly higher dpet than incinerate and even slightly ahead of soul fire.

Also, If I understand correctly when you summon your doomguard it takes a snapshot of your current stats. How would you go about siming the results of activating your doomguard with trinket procs (dfo/phylactery/twilight scale)?

Skiptumalu · 10/18/10, 9:43 PM

Originally Posted by moop

I've tested it both ways; you cannot gain Improved Soul Fire within the duration of Bloodlust/Heroism, and if you have Improved Soul Fire, Bloodlust/Heroism will overwrite it. I've made a duplicate of my original post here in the Warlock Bugs thread to avoid cluttering this thread with off-topic discussion.

Noticed the same behavior with Power Infusion today.

edit: kinda offtopic, but shadow priests appear to be the only class that can give pets the 5% haste buff.

Callandor · 10/18/10, 9:44 PM

Edit: Skiptumalu got there first! Please delete.

Photek1 · 10/18/10, 10:36 PM

Wouldnt shadowburn be a good use of one of the points we can take out of Imp Searing Pain now? On any fight with adds, seems like a good way to replenish a full stock of instant soulfires. As for the damage itself, I could see why it wouldn't be viable since it doesn't gain from destro mastery.

Warlocomotif · 10/18/10, 11:59 PM

At lower levels of haste you'll probably not be able to consume your backdraft procs before conflagrate comes back off cooldown. If that's the case (and IMO, only if that's the case) you can consider replacing that glyph.

If it's not the case than the greatly increased backdraft uptime and the much more frequent use of your hardest hitting spell will outweigh a minor bonus on incinerate.

Evildead1 · 10/19/10, 7:15 AM

The simc Destruction profile still has the following line:

actions+=/soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=cast_time

First off, I thought this was hotfixed and removed, so that improved soulfire works over the entire healthpool. And secondly doesn't this mean contrary to the previous post, that SF is used even when soulburn is not ready or emp imp buff is up?

P.S.: Think I somehow got things wrong here. SF is only used to keep the buff up no matter if it's instant or not, right?

krilz · 10/19/10, 7:21 AM

Originally Posted by Evildead1

The simc Destruction profile still has the following line:

actions+=/soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=cast_time

First off, I thought this was hotfixed and removed, so that improved soulfire works over the entire healthpool. And secondly doesn't this mean contrary to the previous post, that SF is used even when soulburn is not ready or emp imp buff is up?

P.S.: Think I somehow got things wrong here. SF is only used to keep the buff up, right?

It only works on entire health pool in beta, not on live.
And SF is used to keep the buff up, but also whenever Empowered Imp procs.

Rosethorn · 10/19/10, 7:46 AM

Question about the Destruction profile.

As far as I am aware, Conflagrate's damage scales with Immolate, and Immolate's damage scales with haste, so should we not be casting Soulburn -> Soul Fire ahead of Immolate with target health over 80% and no Improved Soul Fire debuff up?

Caltiom · 10/19/10, 7:51 AM

Originally Posted by Evildead1

The simc Destruction profile still has the following line:

actions+=/soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=cast_time

First off, I thought this was hotfixed and removed, so that improved soulfire works over the entire healthpool. And secondly doesn't this mean contrary to the previous post, that SF is used even when soulburn is not ready or emp imp buff is up?

P.S.: Think I somehow got things wrong here. SF is only used to keep the buff up no matter if it's instant or not, right?

There are more lines with actions+=/soul_fire than the one you quoted.

If you look at http://simulationcraft.googlecode.co...struction.simc there are actually 3.

actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.soulburn.up
actions+=/soul_fire,health_percentage>=80,if=cooldown.improved_soul_fire.remains<=cast_time
actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.empowered_imp.react

The second one links the conditions with AND. Like repeated many times in this thread, Improved Soul Fire works without target health restriction only on beta, not on live.

  if ( p -> cooldowns_improved_soul_fire -> remains() <=0 && ( sim -> P403 || sim -> target -> health_percentage() >= 80 ) )
      {
        p -> buffs_improved_soul_fire -> trigger();
        p -> cooldowns_improved_soul_fire -> start();
      }

sim -> P403 represents Patch 4.03 or higher.

Zakalwe: You could link sc_warlock.cpp - simulationcraft - Project Hosting on Google Code in the starting post to increase transparency, many questions can be answered by a quick look at the source code, most spells are between line 1800 and 3845 and easy to comprehend with basic programming knowledge.

Capslock · 10/19/10, 9:15 AM

I've been trying to figure out why blizzard nerfed drain soul. From what calculations i've run it works out equal dps between Destro in its current state and Affliction in its pre nerf state.

I am right or have I missed something key?

Yinchie · 10/19/10, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Capslock

I've been trying to figure out why blizzard nerfed drain soul. From what calculations i've run it works out equal dps between Destro in its current state and Affliction in its pre nerf state.

I am right or have I missed something key?

Probably for PVP reasons, seems it was doing to high or much damage.

Viper007Bond · 10/19/10, 7:35 PM

EDIT: Scratch this post, it's beta-only right now.

Incinerate has been tweaked:

Incinerate now deals 579 to 673 Fire Damage and an additional 96 to 112 Fire damage if the target is affected by Immolate. Changed from 540 to 627 with an additional 135 to 156.

Total damage is essentially the same, but it's more important that you have Immolate on the target now.

MMO-Champion - Beta Build 13202, Raid Loot, Blizzcon, Class Changes, Blue Posts

Demmy · 10/19/10, 7:40 PM

Also Edit: I missed the part where you said scratch your post, my bad.

However, I will point out that if Incinerate's Base Damage is increased, and the Bonus Damage from having Immolate up is decreased by the same amount, that would result in it being less important to have Immolate up, not more.

• Zakalwe · 10/20/10, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by zinnin

The key thing that I would look at is the fact that the simcraft profiles aren't completely accurate yet.

If you're going to make that claim, please point out where our numbers are wrong, don't link some random parse where the discrepancy between specs isn't quite as high as in the simulation. The variance in skill and RNG makes it impossible to draw any conclusions from a sample size of 1.

In general I'm very confident about our numbers at this point. When the patch hit there were a number of details we hadn't had a chance to verify yet, but the warlock module has had a lot of eyes on it over the past week and we've fixed those issues that had any major impact on the outcome.

Of course all the profiles will go up in DPS once we reforge their gear, possibly some more than others, but all of that can be interpolated from the scale factors. Destro is still far ahead in reforged BiS gear.

netsach · 10/20/10, 7:41 AM

Simulationcraft information from r5185 and up :

r5185 | 2010-10-20 10:50:40 +0200 (Wed, 20 Oct 2010) | 9 lines
Reforging now follows the format: reforge=<stat_to_reduce>_<stat_to_gain> i.e. reforge=spi_haste
This will remove 40% (rounded down) of the spirit on the item and give it as haste. It will give an error if you don't specify 2 stats (unless you specify none of course) or if the type of stats aren't valid reforging stats or if the stat you're reforging from doesn't exist on the item or the the stat you're reforging to already exists. (i.e. Just like it functions in game).

• Cutsme · 10/20/10, 7:49 AM

Ok this ends now. From here on out anyone who posts their Logs will have a 1 week ban. There is no need to clutter up threads with it. No one cares about your personal numbers.