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Old 03/02/09, 2:39 AM   #276
Eeks
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Those 2 points make exactly zero difference now that destro is using CoD, but yeah, I'd just forgotten to update the spec link.

Scale factors are coming, they just take a bit longer to generate.
When you do get around to posting them... could you post hit scaling as well? Thanks a ton!

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Old 03/02/09, 2:53 AM   #277
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Turns out the destro profile actually gains quite a bit of DPS by dropping suppression in favor of soul leech and improved soul leech. Since this is a raid buff as well, I'm making that change now - updating the OP in a sec.

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Old 03/02/09, 2:54 AM   #278
Raugturi
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Crushridge
Originally Posted by henslaved View Post
Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

Thought this might be relevant. Specifically the Warlock holding the #2 spot as Destro with 300 more than the projected results of the sim. I know RNG can push things in either direction, but it is worth noting and possibly paying attention to.
My guess is that he has better gear than what the simulator uses for testing.

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Old 03/02/09, 2:56 AM   #279
Abominatus_DMF
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Darkmoon Faire (EU)
If we take Maalakai's 3/13/55 spec as baseline for deep destro (and I believe we do), I am curious to see where those 3 points in Suppression should go as hit rating increases.

We don't yet know how much hit is available on Ulduar gear, so it's difficult to assess whether that 3% is better served by gear or talents, but knowing what kind of DPS increase the options provide would be worthwhile.

As I see it, the two options would be 0/18/53 or 0/13/55.

I know that the 0/18/53 is going to be around 1% to 1.5% more damage (12% more damage on imp, which contributes about 10% to 15% of total), but how many GCDs is ImpSL saving? I realize this is highly dependent on the average length of fights in Ulduar.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:02 AM   #280
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
I just ran a quick test comparing 18/53 to 13/58, and 13/58 wins by 5-10 DPS. The fights I'm modeling here are 5 minutes long.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:05 AM   #281
supplicium
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
I just ran a quick test comparing 18/53 to 13/58, and 13/58 wins by 5-10 DPS. The fights I'm modeling here are 5 minutes long.
And the 13/58 build has the advantage of potentially buffing every one's dps in the raid depending on your comp. That one extra replenish might be nice for 10 mans with odd comps.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:07 AM   #282
Ruic
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Dentarg
I know this has been brought up elsewhere, and I'm wondering if you all think it would be a positive/negative change: It has been suggested that Cataclysm and Suppression be switched, which in my opinion makes a lot of sense, because every PvE build has to go into Destruction and obtain Ruin to be viable. For many builds, such as the current top DPS build (excluding builds run with DGs) fg/emeberstorm, the hit talents have to be forgone - I believe a switch in Cataclysm and Suppression would serve to be a much more sensible location for the hit talent, and would fix many issues with hit capping with Demonology/Destruction hybrids.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:11 AM   #283
Abominatus_DMF
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Warlock
 
Darkmoon Faire (EU)
Originally Posted by supplicium View Post
And the 13/58 build has the advantage of potentially buffing every one's dps in the raid depending on your comp. That one extra replenish might be nice for 10 mans with odd comps.
Yes. That was very much the way I was thinking as well. Also, thanks for the quick reply, Zakalwe. Your work in this thread is sterling

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Old 03/02/09, 3:32 AM   #284
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Scaling factors updated.

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Old 03/02/09, 3:58 AM   #285
Eeks
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Warlock
 
Nordrassil
Thanks Zakalwe.

Do you think keeping the life tap glyph's effect up would boost affliction's dps at all? I'm not completely sure but even lifetapping every 20 seconds may still result in you using more mana than you're gaining.

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Old 03/02/09, 4:26 AM   #286
supplicium
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
Hey zakalwe, whats the +/- on running SF during BD instead of Incin?

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 03/02/09, 6:00 AM   #287
Naforce
Piston Honda
 
Human Warlock
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Maalakai View Post
Here are some Destruction parses from the DPS Patchwerk boss guy in Ulduar right now:

Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

Patchwerk (PTR DPS Test)

Spec I used is 3/13/55, Immolate, Incinerate, and Conflagrate glyphs.
How would the imp-glyph compare to any of these? I guess the conflagrate glyph is mandatory.

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Old 03/02/09, 6:01 AM   #288
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by supplicium View Post
Hey zakalwe, whats the +/- on running SF during BD instead of Incin?
It's a loss.

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Old 03/02/09, 6:25 AM   #289
Troffel
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
It is possible to include lag as a negative scaling factor as well? (sc_scaling.cpp)

The Demonology heavy builds shift damage from actions with lag to autoattack like damage, which do not depend on lag.

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Old 03/02/09, 8:02 AM   #290
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
I just found another relatively major bug - the life tap glyph wasn't being triggered. The fix results in a pretty big boost to the affliction profile. OP has been updated, but I still need to go through the other specs and test if the life tap glyph is better than the current choices.

EDIT: Turns out deep demo specs should be using life tap glyph over meta glyph, at least for the fight length I'm modeling.

Last edited by Zakalwe : 03/02/09 at 8:09 AM.

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Old 03/02/09, 8:33 AM   #291
achille
Banned
 
Human Warlock
 
Shadowsong (EU)
How's the felguard mana consumption with 3-52-16? Is it worth swapping the 1 point in cataclysm to mana feed?

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Old 03/02/09, 8:46 AM   #292
Xeephran
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
@ Zakalwe:

0/13/58 took a serious hit in your latest updates, down to the bottom of the list again. How come? Surely the glyphs you were checking last didn't boost all other specs that much?

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Old 03/02/09, 8:50 AM   #293
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Yet another bug found and fixed - Pyroclasm had a bug that caused it to be up 100% of the time. With a more realistic 37% pyroclasm uptime, destro once again falls to the bottom of the charts. All specs are within a 250 DPS range now though - that's well below 5% variance.

EDIT: OP updated.

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Old 03/02/09, 8:57 AM   #294
Bosmonster
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
. All specs are within a 250 DPS range now though - that's well below 5% variance.
You'd almost think they started using a simulationcraft-type piece of software of their own to even out x-build dps.

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Old 03/02/09, 9:02 AM   #295
Troffel
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
I maybe found one bug in the simulation:

Currently it is implemented that the dots are ready to cast, if the debuff expires.

From theoretical point of view is correct, but there is a additional penalty from gameplay: The communication from server to the client that the dots expires (one or two times a lag duration) and that the client displays it on the screen.
I remember that the original GUI from Blizzard some time ago scans the debuffs every second. But I am not sure, if the problem with the Blizzard original GUI still persists.

You have to "wait" or casting something different, because you do not want to overwrite the last tick.

As a consequence, dots with a casttime starts to cast, if the debuff expires, there is an additional gap between the two dots, which can be prevented by gameplay, if you simply start the cast earlier. (This is already implemented in action_t::ready().)

Fix: Implement that the dots are ready to cast, if the expiration time of the dot minus the casttime of the dot plus two times lag duration is less or equal than sim -> current_time. I neglect the time the client needs to show the expiration of the dot on the screen.

Last edited by Troffel : 03/02/09 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Typos, Dots with Casttime are already correct

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Old 03/02/09, 9:33 AM   #296
Darklawdog
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Arthas
Zak:

I don't know if this has any bearing on the simulations, but the link for your 54/0/17 build takes you to a 52/0/19

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

52/0/19

I'm just curious what the 54/0/17 spec. is. Other than 1 more point in eradication I can't see anything worth putting another point into affliction.

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Old 03/02/09, 9:46 AM   #297
Viper007Bond
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Windrunner
Could someone do a Felguard / destruction build (i.e. like the 0/41/30 build in the OP) but that doesn't contain Soul Fire in the rotation? I know it's good DPS and Drain Soul gives more shards than it used to, but that rotation is still really shard heavy. It wouldn't work for a fight like Sarth3D if you were wiping for example.

Basically I'm curious what kind of DPS a full demo or partial demo build would do without using Soul Fire.

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Old 03/02/09, 9:52 AM   #298
Mystearica
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Warlock
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Viper007Bond View Post
Could someone do a Felguard / destruction build (i.e. like the 0/41/30 build in the OP) but that doesn't contain Soul Fire in the rotation? I know it's good DPS and Drain Soul gives more shards than it used to, but that rotation is still really shard heavy. It wouldn't work for a fight like Sarth3D if you were wiping for example.

Basically I'm curious what kind of DPS a full demo or partial demo build would do without using Soul Fire.
Decimation doesn't consume a Soul Shard to cast Soul Fire.

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Old 03/02/09, 9:58 AM   #299
 Zakalwe
The Chairmaker
 
Orc Warlock
 
Balnazzar
Originally Posted by Darklawdog View Post
Zak:

I don't know if this has any bearing on the simulations, but the link for your 54/0/17 build takes you to a 52/0/19

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

52/0/19

I'm just curious what the 54/0/17 spec. is. Other than 1 more point in eradication I can't see anything worth putting another point into affliction.
The simulation has actually been using a 53/0/18 spec - I just forgot to update the profile name and link. I've updated them now.

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Old 03/02/09, 10:04 AM   #300
Viper007Bond
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Windrunner
Originally Posted by Mystearica View Post
Decimation doesn't consume a Soul Shard to cast Soul Fire.
Oh? Wow then. Odd that it doesn't mention that in the tooltip.

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