SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 121

Menestheus · 08/24/09, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by bonhoeffer

Has anyone noticed a low proc rate for empowered imp? Here's a wws where I got 3 procs on council, for example, which is a fairly long fight. I expected to see more procs on a fight of this nature: Wow Web Stats

That does seem quite low but it could just as well be luck that caused it, during that fight your imp had a 4% crit rate which is very low and the direct cause of your lack of EI procs. You could investigate further using a long training dummy test to see if your Imp is critting at the proper rate if you think it's bugged in some way but it's not a widespread issue.

Mandana · 08/24/09, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Could someone explain what happened to change this?

dont know if someone tried to mention those two arguments before:

a. all cooldown abilities and trinkets are ready for being used with heroism

b. briefly after start the whole raid is still alive, so every single player actually benefits from heroism, what might not be the case if entering 30% phase, because someone in the raid could have died before or is lacking dps buffs after being br'ed

Evyle · 08/24/09, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Mod Edit:

These are results of 30k iterations with a fight time of 5 minutes using a Simulationcraft updated for 3.1.2.

Caveats/assumptions:
* Demo specs with Decimation use 1xFiller-1xSF weaving - in other words, the sim assumes you can always stay at a distance from the boss that makes this possible.
[/code]

The original post has a ton of useful, quick to find, accurate, and helpful information. With one look anyone could see multiple popular specs, possible dps under ideal conditions, stat weights, glyph selection etc. Would it be possible to update the first post of this thread with current 3.2 information? It is especially nice to have all the data at one point to make side by side comparisons. The charts, the break downs the specs right there help the lock community make informed decisions and are greatly appreciated by many of us.

zerorev · 08/25/09, 12:14 AM

Downloaded the recent simcraft version r3169, noticed a notable (200dps) drop when running 0/13/58 with conflag/incin/lifetap glyps compared to the previous version. Running 0/13/58 with conflag/incin/immo shows consistent dps values. Anybody else experiencing this?

wickedwally · 08/25/09, 6:18 AM

Originally Posted by Evyle

The original post has a ton of useful, quick to find, accurate, and helpful information. With one look anyone could see multiple popular specs, possible dps under ideal conditions, stat weights, glyph selection etc. Would it be possible to update the first post of this thread with current 3.2 information? It is especially nice to have all the data at one point to make side by side comparisons. The charts, the break downs the specs right there help the lock community make informed decisions and are greatly appreciated by many of us.

For this you'd have to probably pay Zakalwe, or at the very least give him a pony... on a side note. Don't know if anybody actually thanked him for such hard work. This thread has been invaluable to me and many other locks. It definitely is appreciated.

As for current 3.2. I can't seem to get reliable results.. Either simcraft is still bugged or I'm doing something wrong. probably the latter, since i never was able to reproduce Zalkawe's results anyway.

• Zakalwe · 08/25/09, 7:12 AM

Originally Posted by Evyle

The original post has a ton of useful, quick to find, accurate, and helpful information. With one look anyone could see multiple popular specs, possible dps under ideal conditions, stat weights, glyph selection etc. Would it be possible to update the first post of this thread with current 3.2 information? It is especially nice to have all the data at one point to make side by side comparisons. The charts, the break downs the specs right there help the lock community make informed decisions and are greatly appreciated by many of us.

There you go. Scale factors will be added as soon as I'm done generating them.

It was definitely about time I got that updated - simcraft has gone through a huge amount of development over the summer, so it would be good to get some more eyes on the warlock profiles to make sure they're optimal.

The most important change is that profiles are generally not written by hand anymore; they're autogenerated, either from the armory or from wowhead profiles. For each spec in the OP you'll see a link to the wowhead profile used to generate the simcraft input - it's labeled "origin".

Another new feature is support for more realistic fight scenarios - movement, interrupts, spell pushback, and so on. I'm not sure if I should include the results of a simulated movement fight in the OP or not - on one hand it's certainly interesting to see how various specs are affected, on the other hand there's no clearly defined standard for what constitutes a "movement fight".

Warlocomotif · 08/25/09, 8:10 AM

Thanks a ton for the update Zak

[edit] I was going through the results, and this struck me as odd:
fire_bolt Count=161.3| 1.9sec DPE= 1656|12% DPET= 893 DPR= 9.2 pDPS= 892 Miss=0.2% Hit=1420 Crit= 2129| 2498|33.6%

Before it was too low, but this seems like it's a lot higher than it should be.

fire_bolt Count=161.3| 1.9sec DPE= 1394| 9% DPET= 752 DPR= 7.7 pDPS= 751 Miss=0.2% Hit=1243 Crit= 1865| 2200|24.7%

Also seems high, though the difference between the 2 is 9% (which is what it should be (4% Demonic Tactics 5% Master Demonologist).

5% is ISB, 5% is moonkin, roughly 5% comes from base intellect/intellect scaling on gear. Where does the remaining 9.7% come from? I don't really believe it'd come from intellect buffs :S The character isn't using T9 so I'm assuming the T9 set bonus isn't factored in (And if it is, then suddenly the crit% would be too low, though not by as much).

Any idea where these crit%'s are coming from?

dedmonwakeen · 08/25/09, 9:14 AM

Does the Imp only get spell crit from buff-related Intellect and not base Intellect? If so, please open an Issue to make sure I make the fix.

Originally Posted by zerorev

Downloaded the recent simcraft version r3169, noticed a notable (200dps) drop when running 0/13/58 with conflag/incin/lifetap glyps compared to the previous version. Running 0/13/58 with conflag/incin/immo shows consistent dps values. Anybody else experiencing this?

Please open an Issue and attach your .simcraft file. I will run it against current/back versions and determine the source of the change.

Tenthplanet · 08/25/09, 9:25 AM

Is Firestone better for destruction now? I thought spellstone was! Casting feels so much smoother when I use spellstone compared to Firestone.

Well I guess ill hit the dummy to see how it works out.

duhwhat · 08/25/09, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Another new feature is support for more realistic fight scenarios - movement, interrupts, spell pushback, and so on.

Just to be clear, the movement actions are only activated when BOTH time to die and movement conditions are met. In the breakdowns, the destruction specs never cast Curse of Agony (actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1) since as of 8/25 the OP isn't modeling a movement fight, and doing so after your last Curse of Doom in a stand and nuke fight is a negligible DPS gain (~5, as demonstrated by Zakalwe previously). On a semi-related note, 30 seconds for CoA seems a little tight, perhaps 40 seconds to die is more reasonable.

• Zakalwe · 08/25/09, 9:38 AM

Firestone has always been better for deep destro. Spellstone is only better for direct damage based specs if they have Master Conjuror.

Nartas · 08/25/09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

We recently found some bizarre behavior in the "smooth_scale_factor" code in which -some- stat values were just wrong..... so we have disabled it for now.

Has this been corrected because as it stands now haste has still lost .50 dps per point from 3.1.2 until now, the same looks to be true for mages and they didnt switch to a "glyph of lifetap"

Warlocomotif · 08/25/09, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

Does the Imp only get spell crit from buff-related Intellect and not base Intellect? If so, please open an Issue to make sure I make the fix.

Just doing some napkinmath here based on the post I did earlier:

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

Some quick numbers here:
Imp Base intellect: 424
With 1023 intellect (864 int from gear) my imp gains 306 intellect. +15% = 775 @ 5.56% crit
With 937 intellect (778 int from gear) my imp gains 281 intellect. +15% = 747 @ 5.39% crit
With 824 intellect (665 int from gear) my imp gains 247 intellect. +15% = 708 @ 5.16% crit

Difference in int from gear between sample 1 and 2 is 86, 25 int difference to imp.
Difference in int from gear between sample 2 and 3 is 112, 34 int difference to imp.
Difference in int from gear between sample 1 and 3 is 199, 59 in difference to imp.
Conclusion: Imp gains ~ 30% of masters intellect (but im pretty sure we already knew this)

Difference between pet intellect between sample 1 and 2 is 28 intellect, and 0.17% crit.
Difference between pet intellect between sample 2 and 3 is 39 intellect, and 0.23% crit
Difference between pet intellect between sample 1 and 3 is 67 intellect, and 0.4% crit.
Conclusion: Imp gains 1% crit per ~167 intellect, same as master.

775/167=4.64% This is 0.92% less than the actual crit chance (5.56%)
747/167=4.47% This is 0.92% less than the actual crit chance (5.39%)
708/167=4.24% This is 0.92% less than the actual crit chance (5.16%)

It should be noted that the 166.67 int per 1% crit is calculated by looking at differences in crit% and intellect, meaning that those numbers should be solid regardles of base crit%. What this suggest is:

[1] The imp has 0.92% chance to crit before intellect (Before base intellect aswell)
[2] The imp gains 1% crit for every 166.67 int after this point.
[3] The imp gains 30% of our total intellect, *1.15 due to Fel Vitality.

Now if I'm doing everything right, this means:

Player=Warlock_T8_00_13_58 (destruction) DPS=8346.5 (Error=+/-3.6 Range=+/-653) DPR=25.8 RS=322.9/257.1 (mana)
Origin: Profiler - Wowhead
Race: undead
Core Stats: strength=68(10) agility=75(10) stamina=1108(946) intellect=1042(885) spirit=540(369) health=18390 mana=19666

Our imp has 424 base intellect, he gains (1042+60+52)*1.1*0.3*1.15=438 intellect from our gear and buffs.
Which makes it: (424+438+((60+52)*1.15))*1.1=1089.88 intellect.

Notes: 60 = Arcane Brilliance, 52 = Talents Gift of the Wild, *1.1 = Greater Blessing of Kings, *1.15 = Fel Vitality

1090 intellect means ~6.53% crit, +0.92% base crit = 7.45% crit. If you add 5% from ISB and 5% from moonkin, that totals at 17.45% crit.

I *think* these numbers are correct, but would like to get them double checked before I post a ticket.

[edit] After the raid tonight ill let my imp go to home on the practice dummy for a while to check if there isn't also another base crit value hidden somewhere.

Xebeche · 08/25/09, 2:18 PM

Been trying...

./simcraft.exe wowhead=13602388

...but for the last day or so, I've been receiving the following:

simcraft: Unable to download character profile 13602388 from wowhead.
simcraft: Unknown option/value pair: 'wowhead' : '13602388'
simcraft: ERROR! Incorrect option format..

Worked like a charm a couple days ago - anyone have any ideas? I thought this may be an issue with my wowhead profile, so I tried some others, and always get the same sort of error message.

• Zakalwe · 08/25/09, 2:35 PM

Looks more like you're using an old version of simcraft?