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Old 08/25/09, 9:56 PM   #1831
Cvarto
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Proudmoore
Oh, whooops haha. The first iteration listed is for deep afflic with DG.

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Old 08/25/09, 10:02 PM   #1832
Warlocomotif
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Warlock
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
[1] The doomguard is shown in the first post. 53_00_18_dg = doomguard.
[2] If you are intent on commenting on someone's gear, you're likely better off sending a private message
[3] How to use Simcraft has been asked many times before, I recommend you either search or read through this thread.
[4] The exact effect of the 2 piece T9 bonus is currently not really known for sure (Particularly for the melee pets), so until it is, the numbers would be very valueable anyway.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

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Old 08/25/09, 10:30 PM   #1833
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Pet crit rates fixed in r3177. I'll put out a release tonight.

EDIT: SimulationCraft r3178 available for download, includes Warlock pet fixes

Last edited by dedmonwakeen : 08/25/09 at 11:36 PM.


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Old 08/26/09, 10:58 AM   #1834
Yeda
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Dragonmaw (EU)
In my opinion its still relevant to put 00/13/58 without LT glyph in the front post. The debate of the real value of LT glyph is still upthere, and many warlocks still think the "freedom" of not LTing at certain times its a DPS increase. In my last simulation it came behind 100dps more or less, so in a real raid situation things could change. Just my opinion, not asking to do the sim for the glyph/spec combo since i did that myself, just think that would contribute to have it in the front post to keep comparing both "versions" as time / gear sets evolve.

Cheers for the work and "welcome back" Zakalwe

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Old 08/26/09, 12:15 PM   #1835
Warlocomotif
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Warlock
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
Originally Posted by Yeda View Post
In my opinion its still relevant to put 00/13/58 without LT glyph in the front post. The debate of the real value of LT glyph is still upthere, and many warlocks still think the "freedom" of not LTing at certain times its a DPS increase. In my last simulation it came behind 100dps more or less, so in a real raid situation things could change. Just my opinion, not asking to do the sim for the glyph/spec combo since i did that myself, just think that would contribute to have it in the front post to keep comparing both "versions" as time / gear sets evolve.

Cheers for the work and "welcome back" Zakalwe
I generally agree with that you're saying, it would probably be interesting to see how glyph of Immo/Incin/Conflag would compete with Incin/Lifetap/Conflag after you enabled the movement settings of Simulationcraft.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

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Old 08/26/09, 1:17 PM   #1836
duhwhat
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Area 52
I think another relevant build/action priority list would be a Demonic Pact build that doesn't use Immolation, and thus going with the Immolate rather than Meta glyph. In some cases, Immolation can be dangerous, but maximum single target DPS is still required of the DP player (think Algalon), and it would be nice to be able to gauge performance relative to this kind of sim.

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Old 08/26/09, 2:56 PM   #1837
TheRabidSniper
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Khadgar
My Deep Destro Spec

Me: 27.58% crit (including Firestone enchant), 916 INT
My Imp: 739 INT (424 + 315, "Increases Spell Critical Hit by 5.34%")

Using a level 80 dummy in Darn, untapped:
1075 firebolts - 1020 non-crit, 55 crit - 5.1% crit




My Deep Demo Spec
- note: includes DT and ImpDT

Same gear; firestone still enabled. 37.78% crit chance, 916 INT
My imp: same as above
- So now, I'd assume the Imp has a crit chance of X+5(MD)+10(DT)+11.33(ImpDT - 0.3*37.78), where X may be just his 5.34% from INT, for a total of 31.67%

Same combat dummy, fewer just for resonable confirmation of influence of talents:
550 firebolts - 374 non-crit, 176 crit - 32.0% crit



Felguard: 90 AGI (5% melee crit), 487 INT (172 + 315, "...6.26%")
- interestingly, the FG gains more spell crit per point of INT

A few notes:
- The dummy I had chosen for the imp was a poor choice as it was right next to another dummy; meaning for each of the FG's Cleaves, he would hit at least two targets. However, I later found out that no dummy in Darn is far enough away from the others to stop multiple dummies being hit by one Cleave. Still, I needed to ensure he wasn't attacking two non-80 dummies (as that can have unwanted effects on crit chance), so I chose a different dummy for him to swing at, Cleaving into a second level 80 dummy.
- Multiple dummies being hit by one cleave doesn't seem to matter, as it turns out: as far as Recount cares, each target that is hit by a single Cleave attack counts as a separate Cleave attack.
- No matter how I am oriented to the dummy when I send the FG in, he always re-orients himself so that he's directly behind the dummy.


So, two level 80 dummies, for soaking hits and the extra Cleave:
Melee attack: 1693 attacks
- 1091 hits, 442 crits, 98 glancing, 42 dodges, 20 misses - 26.1% crit

Cleave attack: 1127 attacks
- 794 hits, 271 crits, 35 dodges, 15 parries, 12 misses - 24.0% crit

For the most part, they were within 1 or 2 percent of each other, whenever I checked them. The parries in the Cleave are only due to the second dummy that was slightly facing the FG, I believe.

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Old 08/26/09, 6:58 PM   #1838
Warlocomotif
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Warlock
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
The sample size is still pretty small, but itis close enough and pretty much consistent between the various tests- to assume it's correct.

O got 2xT9 today, and out of curiousity due to this post:
Demonology Thread

I had a quick look to see how much my imp would crit (after all, auto attacks benefitting differed between the succubus and the felguard, so you really never know). after 1400 firebolts, I have a crit% of 15.3% recorded- which both, confirms that the bonus works for imps- and is close enough to the expected 5.63% to re-affirm that.

I'll also check to see if the succubus indeed doesn't benefit (and that the felguard does), but that will take me some more time.

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.

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Old 08/27/09, 11:49 AM   #1839
Orgath
Von Kaiser
 
Orgath's Avatar
 
Orc Warlock
 
Kargath (EU)
There are various numbers floating around regarding 2pT9 Bonus so here is some math to clear things up a bit:

+10% pet crit =
  • pet base damage + pet crit rate +10 / pet base damage + pet crit rate => pet damage increase
    assuming 21% base crit rate for raidbuffed destro imps (see simcraft for 13/58) = 131/121=108%
  • 48% higher Empowered Imp uptime (31/21=1,48) from 11% (see simcraft for 13/58) -> 16,3%
  • simcraft already models crit rates around 55% for the affected spells, which brings the increase down to 2,4%crit increase mostly consumed by CB, Immo and IN due to mechanics.

Last edited by Orgath : 08/27/09 at 12:04 PM.

for a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Simon & Garfunkel

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Old 08/27/09, 6:12 PM   #1840
Mystearica
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by Tenthplanet View Post
You can probly use the dummy @ the Argent tournament grounds.

I'm still wondering if it will be a marginal boost or loss for going with the 4p t9 sets, has anybody been able to test this out yet? I only have 1 piece of t9 so far.
Well I'm no math expert or anything, I used the Optigear(manually updated the loot list) found on these forums & the current weight factors from simulationcraft to play around a bit.
Without putting a weight for the T9 bonuses(ie T9 2/4pc do nothing) We'll still be using at least 3pc of T9 (helm, shoulders, & legs).
So the question then becomes is it really worth not wearing a 4th piece of T9 over off set gloves & robes? I'm assuming the gain of wearing 4pc will out weigh wearing both off set robes & gloves.
The real problem with this debate tho, is that there's no ilv258 Helm or shoulders from ToC. So at ilv245 it may be better to only wear 2pc until you have access to hard mode loot. (which almost everyone should judging by the current difficulty of ToC)

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Old 08/27/09, 8:05 PM   #1841
XviiLock
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Eonar
At what point is the 2 pc T7 bonus out done by raw stats?

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Old 08/28/09, 12:04 AM   #1842
mjball
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warlock
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by XviiLock View Post
At what point is the 2 pc T7 bonus out done by raw stats?
The short answer: very quickly. Also see Corruption Triggers Crit - Spell - World of Warcraft for comments about the proc.

The long answer:
Are you actually trying to figure out when you break your T7 2pc? If so, then you're wasting your time because T7 is such low-end gear these days. If not, why the academic exercise? At any rate, for those who can't remember it (like myself), [Valorous Plagueheart Circlet] is a reference to the bonus he's talking about. Particularly once you compare T7 gear and set bonuses to the rest of the warlock tier set bonuses and tier gear (T8/T9) in general, I really don't know why you're asking this question.

Edit: Okay, so I just actually bothered to look at your armory page. Not to be a dick or anything - but go get some real gear, proper gems, and come back with questions that aren't a waste of time.

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Old 08/28/09, 1:11 AM   #1843
Relent
Glass Joe
 
Human Warlock
 
Auchindoun
An idea popped into my head the other day: Why not create a program to write a simcraft profile text file for every possible set of spec, rotation, and glyphs and run them all through? I could easily arrange for such a thing to be written.

I think that this comprehensive approach to theorycrafting has the potential to greatly benefit the community. The kind of exhaustive, scientific analysis would include all possible creative efforts and analyze them all in one batch.

Does Simcraft have memory leaks or other performance issues which would prove to be obstacles in the achievement of such a computation?

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Old 08/28/09, 8:26 AM   #1844
Yeda
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Dragonmaw (EU)
I was running SimCraft today (version on SVN) for scale factors, and I noticed a strange thing. Spirit in 00/13/58 with LT glyph is at 1.09 DPS and at 00/13/58 without LT glyph is at 1.24. Dont know if its something with smooth_scale_factors, but im running a sim atm without it activated. Still weird how much spirit is valuated for a spec without the glyph.

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Old 08/28/09, 8:32 AM   #1845
dedmonwakeen
Bald Bull
 
dedmonwakeen
Undead Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Relent View Post
An idea popped into my head the other day: Why not create a program to write a simcraft profile text file for every possible set of spec, rotation, and glyphs and run them all through? I could easily arrange for such a thing to be written.

I think that this comprehensive approach to theorycrafting has the potential to greatly benefit the community. The kind of exhaustive, scientific analysis would include all possible creative efforts and analyze them all in one batch.

Does Simcraft have memory leaks or other performance issues which would prove to be obstacles in the achievement of such a computation?
The performance cost would be prohibitive. Consider the number of variables you are talking about. Just doing gear alone would be spectacularly expensive given the number of slots.

Even for just gear, you would be better off pre-calculating a 4-D surface: (SP,Crit,Haste)=>DPS

Find reasonable ranges for each of SP, Crit, Haste. This collapses the problem down to three variables with fine-tuned control on the range of the variables. Let's say you allow for 10 buckets, you end up with 10^3 combinations.

Now consider 17 slots of gear. Even if you limited the gear choice to 3 pieces (including gem configs!!!) you end up with 3^17 sim runs.

You are better off building a DPS surface lookup-table and then quickly iterating through gear choices to see where you end up on that table. Even still, you'll need something smarter than a simple recursive search....

This is just at the edge of possibility: You could run with smooth_rng=1 and iterations=100 to get a reasonable DPS value. Covering a 10x10x10 surface of such runs is the equivalent of a single 100k iteration run which is not really that painful on modern multi-threaded processors.

EDIT: The interesting thing is that the interpolation table only needs to be generated once per talent/glyph/patch combo and then can be re-used. Time for some late night shenanigans on those 128X big-iron servers......

Originally Posted by Yeda View Post
I was running SimCraft today (version on SVN) for scale factors, and I noticed a strange thing. Spirit in 00/13/58 with LT glyph is at 1.09 DPS and at 00/13/58 without LT glyph is at 1.24. Dont know if its something with smooth_scale_factors, but im running a sim atm without it activated. Still weird how much spirit is valuated for a spec without the glyph.
I'm afraid I have currently lost my faith in smooth_rng when used to reduce both iteration count and the scale deltas (which is what happens with smooth_scale_factors=1). I would recommend against smooth_scale_factors=1 and instead iterate in the 10k to 20k range when generating scale factors. I'll eventually work on solving the problem because it still has the greatest performance potential of any reasonable alternative..... but my plate is full at the moment.

Last edited by dedmonwakeen : 08/28/09 at 8:52 AM.


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