For affliction, I would also be curious to see what would happen if you were to take 1 point out of nightfall, and put it into demonic power. Demonic Power for a succubus at my gear level is worth about 15dps per point. Which I believe is more than nightfall per point.
Another consideration is moving the point from Improved Drain Soul to Demonic Power so long as threat is not an issue.
Demonic Empathy shouldn't show up unless A) you're running a simcraft that hasn't been compiled from the current SVN trunk (the latest release does not have the 3.1 changes) or B) you haven't set patch=3.1.0 in your config files.
Note that aftermath is a very weak talent for affliction - according to the simulation breakdown, it's worth around 6.5 dps per point:
14.1 casts of immolate on average, each cast has 5 dot ticks, which tick for 966, so we get 68103 immolate damage. If we lose the 6% immolate damage from that, we get 64248 damage instead. Assuming the parse is 277 secs (which most simcraft parses are normalized to), the difference is 14 dps - 7 dps per point
Demonic power is worth around 24 dps a point from the data, so demonic power is a lot better:
Demonic power simply doubles lash of pain damage for the succubus, and lash of pain is doing 13k, so the two talent points are worth another 13k. Compare this with the 4k from immolate, and we have a pretty clear winner.
Could you test this build? My logic is assuming that you will already have a mage with the scorch debuff, and since it does not stack with ISB, I would rather buff the imp. I also have no threat reduction with this build, and only one point in Eradication.
Was just wondering about 0/40/31? I'm having a hard time belieiving that 0/41/30 (Felguard) would provide more dps than: An imp, 5% crit (for both warlock + imp), and Conflag every 10 seconds (I was getting 11-12k crits on a target dummy).
Also, this doesn't include raid buffs/debuffs does it? I think that might bump Meta/Ruin up a bit more since the Felguard gets a huge boost from the physical damage debuffs/buffs.
Zakalwe: Thanks for the good work! Any chance we can get access to a SimCraft with the new things incorporated? Would save a lot of effort of constantly requesting "Could you test this build"?
Another consideration is moving the point from Improved Drain Soul to Demonic Power so long as threat is not an issue.
Overall threat is likely to change a bit, since SL damage and healing got changed.
Just taking yesterday stats from Sapphiron (tried to take something longer than PW explosion) SL is worth 7.7% of my aggro and the healing part is another 3.9%. Which puts it in third place after SB and Corruption as a threat generator, right before Immolate.
With the updated damage breakdown in the original post, I do not see soul fire listed in the actions for either 0/56/15 or 0/41/30. Is there a bug with the display of that information in this section or is the bug you mentioned still in existence?
Oops - I actually forgot to replace the executable after fixing the bug. I reran again, and updated the original post. That's a pretty major difference - hopefully someone who has time to do some math can provide a sanity check on those soul fire numbers.
I've been looking at similar spec, but I'm not sure that's the optimal way to go about it. Depending on how much crit we end up with, Empowered Imp might be a greater DPS boost than Molten Core. Something along the lines of this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614 I'm not sure about that last point going into F&B, but I don't see anywhere else to put it that gives any form of DPS boost.
Interesting to note that none of the specs we're playing with here include improved healthstone. Will that be something new to this patch, or have I just not noticed it before?
If these numbers hold up I wouldn't be surprised to see a small nerf to Meta locks. Being the second highest dps spec plus bringing two nifty buffs to the raid (demonic pact and ISB) might be a little too good to be true. On the other hand, it looks like the spec will be more complicated to play, what with juggling more Meta's and handling whatever the shadowbolt/soul fire rotation ends up being during decimate while trying to keep molten core up. It could end up being one of those specs that really, really separates the experts from the casuals. I'd certainly be fine with that (even though I'm personally far closer to the latter than the former).
for non-hit capped locks, taking the extra 3% from surpression, would you go with an imp spec until you have the gear to pull those 3 points back?
something like this?: 3/38/30
any ideas? could you run this through the new simcraft?
I was thinking then for glyphs:
- imp
- incinerate
? immolate or life tap to capitalize the t7 bonus...
as the optimal rotation sub 35%, while skipping the re-application of DoTs.
Perhaps, sub 35% corruption may be skipped, resulting in:
Agony (for Molton Core) --> Immolate --> Incin --> SoulFire --> Incin --> Soulfire --> refresh/repeat
As I am not certain of the 3.1 coefficients/DPCT, it may be better to forgo Immo if being maintained by another warlock.
I will attempt to get some Simcraft data/wws on dummies/Dr.Boom (not sure if those methods will yield clean data w/ a host of debuffs applied to the target by other folks.
Perhaps someone has already explored this avenue? I greatly appreciate your feedback, and the effort everyone is putting forth.
*EDIT* Would seem foolish in retrospect not to switch out Glyph of Agony with Glyph of Incinerate.
*EDIT2* For clarity.
Last edited by MagisterLudi : 02/26/09 at 7:07 PM.
12 affliction debuffs is a realistic number with 3 warlocks whom 2 are affliction, but the "ideal" is 15 for a max bonus of 60% on the drain soul damage, isn't it ?
Does the simulation on pre-patch data showing 55/0/16-DG as the best spec use 12 or 15 debuffs, and in this last case, could you provide us simulation of affliction damage with doomguard and maximized DS ?
12 is the baseline number set by the optimal_raid parameter, but it does take into account the effects cast by the warlock(s) being simulated as well, so it would rarely/never dip below 15.
I'm guessing it was done this way to make sure a priority list that dropped all dots below 25% would be properly penalized for it.
I've been looking at similar spec, but I'm not sure that's the optimal way to go about it. Depending on how much crit we end up with, Empowered Imp might be a greater DPS boost than Molten Core. Something along the lines of this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614 I'm not sure about that last point going into F&B, but I don't see anywhere else to put it that gives any form of DPS boost.
Yeah I was just pondering it since it seems nice to have MC + Pyroclasm up at the same time. What if you put the 4 points from destro into 4/5 master demonology?
Perhaps some thought might be invested in the following spec, or some a variant thereof;
You are on the right track - Decimation is overpowered, and currently on the PTR results in 1.3s cast Soul Fires that cost no shards. With the right amount of haste and spell travel time, you can alternate your Incinerate / Shadowbolt and Soul Fires one after the other.
Zakalwe:
Did you change something on the SVN since you last updated your first posting here?
I keep getting higher numbers for both Felguard specs (like +80 dps for 41/30 and +65 for 56/15) while the others are more or less identical.
Concerning the meta spec:
- Glyph of Meta and Glyph of Shadow Bolt are about equal with a slight edge for SB, at least in the ~280 seconds simulation
- 3/3 Imp Demonic Tactics and 2/3 Molten Core is better than 2/3 3/3, not only for your personal DPS but also for DP uptime
On another note, how exactly is Decimation being handled by SimCraft?
FIXME: This assumes a 1-second travel time on the triggering spell
p -> buffs_decimation = s -> sim -> current_time + 1;
As has been pointed out, you can utilize a SB-SF rotation if you stand at max range and have enough haste to cast your SF during the time it takes your bolt to reach the target, but I guess this currently doesn't work in SimCraft because 1 second is too short?
I'm not clear on why a build with 3 points in Molten Core is using CoDoom instead of CoA for MC procs. The build is obviously trying to maximise MC uptime, so why forgo the chances to proc from CoA?
By the same token, how much does Demonic Pact uptime suffer from the missing point in Improved Demonic Tactics?
Last edited by Lurker37 : 02/26/09 at 8:28 PM.
Reason: removed ambiguous acronym
02/26/09, 4:19 PM
