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03/23/09, 8:34 PM
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#951
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Don Flamenco
Human Warlock
Emerald Dream (EU)
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Originally Posted by Talimar
CB just got a boost as GC promised:
Chaos Bolt damage has been increased, now deals 1429-1813 fire damage at max rank. (Up from 1243-1577)
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Changes to base damage are not that interesting. The buffs that conflagrate got were buffs that applied to the entire spell (which includes spellpower scaling), amking it not only interesting now, but also interesting long term.
[ediit] Interesting change to glyph of immolate, will hit conflag specs the hardest- but will also be pretty meh for demo builds :s
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The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
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03/23/09, 9:02 PM
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#952
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Warlock
Magtheridon
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Originally Posted by Bosmonster
And glyph of Immolate got nerfed:
* Glyph of Immolate -- Increases the periodic damage of your Immolate by 10%. (Old - 20%, but decreased its initial damage by 10%)
I'm guessing deep destro will stay about the same (the loss in conflag is made up by the increase in CB), but 0/40/31 will take a small hit.
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Our 2pc also got a slight nerf.
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Warlock T8 2P Bonus (Class: Warlock) -- Increases the damage done by your Unstable Affliction by 20% and your Immolate by 10%. (Old - Increased both UA and Immolate by 20%)
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03/23/09, 10:13 PM
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#953
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Glass Joe
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I downloaded the latest SVN build and made the modifications to the warlock glyphs and bonuses and the dmg changes to chaos bolt. These are the values it returned.

Last edited by scudzey : 03/23/09 at 10:22 PM.
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03/23/09, 10:17 PM
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#954
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Von Kaiser
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Did anyone ever test if the Immolate bonus from 2 piece T8 also increased Conflag damage? That bonus isn't included in the OP Simulcraft right?
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03/23/09, 10:21 PM
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#955
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Snidelyw
Did anyone ever test if the Immolate bonus from 2 piece T8 also increased Conflag damage? That bonus isn't included in the OP Simulcraft right?
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No it's not, it's assumed that it was additive, but the gear sets used did not include the T8 bonuses.
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03/24/09, 12:34 AM
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#956
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The Chairmaker
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OP has been updated to reflect the CB base damage and glyph of immolate changes.
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03/24/09, 2:13 AM
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#957
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Don Flamenco
Gnome Warlock
Alterac Mountains
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Zak, Not sure if you ever got around to finding this out on your own, but you wanted base immolation Aura damage, and it's 577/tick naked/0 Spell dmg in this build; 749/tick with 1001 spelldmg; 920.5 with 2000 spelldmg; 1024/tick with 2604 spelldmg.
Hope that helps with judging scaling.
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The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.
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03/24/09, 2:21 AM
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#958
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The Chairmaker
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Originally Posted by supplicium
Zak, Not sure if you ever got around to finding this out on your own, but you wanted base immolation Aura damage, and it's 577/tick naked/0 Spell dmg in this build; 749/tick with 1001 spelldmg; 920.5 with 2000 spelldmg; 1024/tick with 2604 spelldmg.
Hope that helps with judging scaling.
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Thanks for the numbers, they match the immolation currently on live - 481 base damage, 0.143 spell power coefficient.
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03/24/09, 6:13 AM
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#959
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Von Kaiser
Orc Warlock
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by Eeks
So the results on the op don't factor in the use of t8 bonuses?
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No they use T7.
Ulduar gear list is not complete yet, so it is not yet possible to make a proper T8 list for it.
However I am interested in how the setbonusses work out for all the builds.
- 4T7
- 2T7 + 2T8
- 4T8
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03/24/09, 6:21 AM
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#960
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Bosmonster
No they use T7.
Ulduar gear list is not complete yet, so it is not yet possible to make a proper T8 list for it.
However I am interested in how the setbonusses work out for all the builds.
- 4T7
- 2T7 + 2T8
- 4T8
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I personally ran through with my current gear and t8 bonuses earlier today prior to the update just to get an idea for how they affect scaling. (Trying to figure out what I should bother spending dkp on prior to 3.1)
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03/24/09, 8:02 AM
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#961
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Piston Honda
Gnome Warlock
Alterac Mountains
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The extra stamina scales with your imp and gives it stamina, in turn giving you spellpower through Demonic Knowledge. Mana Feed is not a necessary talent because it is nearly impossible for an imp to go oom in a raid environment.
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03/24/09, 8:06 AM
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#962
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The Chairmaker
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Originally Posted by jettay
Hello,
I've probably missed something but I can't understand why the current 0/40/31 build is better than this one.
The only difference is a point in "Mana Feed" from "Demonic Embrace".
I think that a OOM Imp is not very usefull compare to 1% PV but the Sim seems to give Extra SP or something else with this Extra Stamina.
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You've missed it being pointed out several times that the sim currently does not model pet mana usage. It has zero effect on the relevance of the results, though, because you can easily get Mana Feed by dropping a point from Master Summoner, a talent which is entirely unrelated to DPS.
Incidentally, extra stamina does give extra SP for these demo/destro specs, because of Demonic Knowledge.
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03/24/09, 8:57 AM
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#963
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The Chairmaker
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Originally Posted by Alghieri
[..] before and after the T8 2 piece bonus change to affliction?
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Affliction? I know the 2-piece bonus changed in the latest PTR build, but what does it have to do with affliction?
Originally Posted by Alghieri
I would do it myself but I don't run windows. Thanks in advance.
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That's certainly a valid excuse - I'll see what I can do about getting Mac and Linux binaries updated a bit more often. Can I ask what OS you do run?
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03/24/09, 9:03 AM
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#964
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe
Affliction? I know the 2-piece bonus changed in the latest PTR build, but what does it have to do with affliction?
That's certainly a valid excuse - I'll see what I can do about getting Mac and Linux binaries updated a bit more often. Can I ask what OS you do run?
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Better yet Zak, if you have time, could you give a quick runthrough on how to compile these ourselves? I've attempted and failed  (Been running simcraft on my pc but my mac is much faster)
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03/24/09, 9:05 AM
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#965
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Don Flamenco
Human Warlock
Emerald Dream (EU)
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Originally Posted by supplicium
Zak, Not sure if you ever got around to finding this out on your own, but you wanted base immolation Aura damage, and it's 577/tick naked/0 Spell dmg in this build; 749/tick with 1001 spelldmg; 920.5 with 2000 spelldmg; 1024/tick with 2604 spelldmg.
Hope that helps with judging scaling.
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You're missing the meta modifier. If you see 577/tick naked, that means it's base damage is 577/1.2=481
((749/1.2)-481)/1001=0.1430 as modifier.
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The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
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03/24/09, 10:47 AM
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#966
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The Chairmaker
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I've started putting together gear sets using the T8-level loot that's been discovered on the PTR. I don't think I'll include any of this in the OP quite yet, but here's the result of running the same simulation with the best PTR gear I could find:
This includes T8 2-piece and 4-piece bonuses. The gear sets are as follows:
Warlock_T8_Hit_Gear.simcraft
Warlock_T8_Gear.simcraft
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03/24/09, 11:15 AM
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#967
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The Chairmaker
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Originally Posted by Alghieri
I would do it myself but I don't run windows. Thanks in advance.
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As a followup here: Another developer was kind enough to immediately put out a new OSX release when I inquired. Does that help you?
Originally Posted by Eeks
Better yet Zak, if you have time, could you give a quick runthrough on how to compile these ourselves? I've attempted and failed  (Been running simcraft on my pc but my mac is much faster)
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I've never actually attempted to compile simcraft on a mac, but I've been told it should be as simple as just typing make.
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03/24/09, 11:22 AM
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#968
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe
As a followup here: Another developer was kind enough to immediately put out a new OSX release when I inquired. Does that help you?
I've never actually attempted to compile simcraft on a mac, but I've been told it should be as simple as just typing make.
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I compiled it on my Mac just the other day, and it works fine. As you say, it is as simple as running make.
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03/24/09, 11:52 AM
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#969
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Warlock
Kult der Verdammten (EU)
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Originally Posted by FATALDAMAGE
Looks like 41/30 took a big hit... that sucks, I really like that build.
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Well I see 0/40/31 still far on top if you forget about the Doomguard...
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03/24/09, 12:22 PM
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#970
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Von Kaiser
Orc Warlock
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by FATALDAMAGE
Looks like 41/30 took a big hit... that sucks, I really like that build.
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All builds are so close together there is none that really 'takes a big hit'. The first 2 builds have issues:
1. DG is situational
2. 0/40/31 requires optimal SF weaving for that DPS
If you take that into consideration, basically all builds are about equal.
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03/24/09, 12:44 PM
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#971
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Von Kaiser
Undead Warlock
Shadowsong (EU)
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Originally Posted by Bosmonster
All builds are so close together there is none that really 'takes a big hit'. The first 2 builds have issues:
1. DG is situational
2. 0/40/31 requires optimal SF weaving for that DPS
If you take that into consideration, basically all builds are about equal.
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I think all of the top DPS builds have considerations like you mention. I believe Affliction's Drain Soul execute is as difficult to pull off perfectly as SF-weaving due to how you can queue up spells with SF weaving whereas you need to interrupt a spell mid-cast for DS, the latter of which latency will affect more.
Having said that, it looks like SimCraft takes this lag into account on the DPS calculations. The following values are taken from Globals_T7.simcraft:
queue_lag=0.075
channel_lag=0.250
In any case, the rotation is easy if you are standing at the appropriate distance from the boss (I'm guessing there's mods out there that will tell you the distance) for your haste rating as shown earlier in this thread.
Zakalwe, I couldn't find an option to not Lifetap whilst in DS execute range, is it possible to add the health_percentage option for Lifetap or is it a known DPS loss? The reason I ask is that I believe it is more beneficial not to Lifetap during the execute range even with the glyph and 4pt7.
Ideally you'd also want to make sure you tapped just before going into <25% but I guess that might be a bit overkill to code.
Last edited by Kabale : 03/24/09 at 1:32 PM.
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03/24/09, 12:45 PM
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#972
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Glass Joe
Human Warlock
Burning Legion
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Currently on the PTR Demonic Pact benefits from the 30% spirit to spell power from baseline Fel Armor. It does not calculate any bonuses from Demonic Aegis (Imp Armors) or the Life Tap Glyph.
Hopefully that will boost deep Demo. And it's a sign they are going to finish fixing the rest of the bugs, or so I hope.
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03/24/09, 2:01 PM
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#973
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Bosmonster
All builds are so close together there is none that really 'takes a big hit'. The first 2 builds have issues:
1. DG is situational
2. 0/40/31 requires optimal SF weaving for that DPS
If you take that into consideration, basically all builds are about equal.
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If you're going to make the argument that 0/40/31 dominates because of optimal SF weaving, and that without that all builds are equal, you have to make the assumption that every other spec listed that uses decimation requires optimal SF weaving to achieve that DPS. You can take this a step farther and make the assumption that affliction achieves its numbers because of optimal use of drain soul; and if you do you arrive at the conclusion that with the removal of all < (Insert % here) abilities 0/40/31 will still out DPS the other specs by a large margin.
The point I'm trying to make is that any issues related to 0/40/31 DPS doesn't stem from conditional abilities because those abilities are not unique to 0/40/31.
Whether Decimation weaving is as easy or as dependable to use as drain soul is another question. But this is starting to get off topic.
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03/24/09, 2:06 PM
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#974
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Von Kaiser
Orc Warlock
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by Nke
If you're going to make the argument that 0/40/31 dominates because of optimal SF weaving, and that without that all builds are equal, you have to make the assumption that every other spec listed that uses decimation requires optimal SF weaving to achieve that DPS. You can take this a step farther and make the assumption that affliction achieves its numbers because of optimal use of drain soul; and if you do you arrive at the conclusion that with the removal of all < (Insert % here) abilities 0/40/31 will still out DPS the other specs by a large margin.
The point I'm trying to make is that any issues related to 0/40/31 DPS doesn't stem from conditional abilities because those abilities are not unique to 0/40/31.
Whether Decimation weaving is as easy or as dependable to use as drain soul is another question. But this is starting to get off topic.
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No, what I am saying is that all builds are extremely close together already, and that that is solely based on theory/simcraft.
This was as a remark to somebody basically stating that 0/41/30 would be unplayable in 3.1 because it was a few % below 0/40/31. (or at least, that is how I interpreted it)
The different builds are closer together than ever and that is a good thing. You can just take the build you like to play the most and still compete in top DPS.
That said, we still need to see how SF weaving will eventually express itself in DPS in the Ulduar encounters.
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03/24/09, 2:12 PM
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#975
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Anuva
How would it look to simulate 0/40/31 /w DG?
it having 50% uptime and FD summon with latter spec shouldn't be an issue to swap pets in combat.
Apologies if i repeated something that has been said before as i found none of it.
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Check this post and the two following.
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