SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 4

• Zakalwe · 02/26/09, 6:10 PM

12 is the baseline number set by the optimal_raid parameter, but it does take into account the effects cast by the warlock(s) being simulated as well, so it would rarely/never dip below 15.

I'm guessing it was done this way to make sure a priority list that dropped all dots below 25% would be properly penalized for it.

brymortis · 02/26/09, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by bartolimu

I've been looking at similar spec, but I'm not sure that's the optimal way to go about it. Depending on how much crit we end up with, Empowered Imp might be a greater DPS boost than Molten Core. Something along the lines of this: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614 I'm not sure about that last point going into F&B, but I don't see anywhere else to put it that gives any form of DPS boost.

Yeah I was just pondering it since it seems nice to have MC + Pyroclasm up at the same time. What if you put the 4 points from destro into 4/5 master demonology?

dahaliana · 02/26/09, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by MagisterLudi

Perhaps some thought might be invested in the following spec, or some a variant thereof;

You are on the right track - Decimation is overpowered, and currently on the PTR results in 1.3s cast Soul Fires that cost no shards. With the right amount of haste and spell travel time, you can alternate your Incinerate / Shadowbolt and Soul Fires one after the other.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9626

This build, or something like it, I suspect is going to put up massive numbers. Conflag / Decimation build.

Go all the way to Decimation in Demonology, picking up 1 point in molten core (or more, depending on preference) and all the imp improving talents.

Go all the way to Conflag in Destruction, picking up the fire improving talents.

Glyphs would be Incinerate, Conflag, and either Life Tap, Imp, or Immolate.

Morrigan · 02/26/09, 7:16 PM

Zakalwe:
Did you change something on the SVN since you last updated your first posting here?
I keep getting higher numbers for both Felguard specs (like +80 dps for 41/30 and +65 for 56/15) while the others are more or less identical.

Concerning the meta spec:
- Glyph of Meta and Glyph of Shadow Bolt are about equal with a slight edge for SB, at least in the ~280 seconds simulation
- 3/3 Imp Demonic Tactics and 2/3 Molten Core is better than 2/3 3/3, not only for your personal DPS but also for DP uptime

On another note, how exactly is Decimation being handled by SimCraft?

FIXME: This assumes a 1-second travel time on the triggering spell
p -> buffs_decimation = s -> sim -> current_time + 1;

As has been pointed out, you can utilize a SB-SF rotation if you stand at max range and have enough haste to cast your SF during the time it takes your bolt to reach the target, but I guess this currently doesn't work in SimCraft because 1 second is too short?

Lurker37 · 02/26/09, 7:27 PM

Zak, I have two questions regarding your Meta/Ruin Profile (assuming the profile in your original post is current)

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_56_15
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,felguard
actions+=/curse_of_doom/demonic_empowerment/metamorphosis,immolation=1
actions+=/soul_fire,decimation=1/corruption/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
enchant_crit_rating=-75
enchant_hit_rating=+75
glyph_metamorphosis=1
glyph_felguard=1
glyph_immolate=1

I'm not clear on why a build with 3 points in Molten Core is using CoDoom instead of CoA for MC procs. The build is obviously trying to maximise MC uptime, so why forgo the chances to proc from CoA?

By the same token, how much does Demonic Pact uptime suffer from the missing point in Improved Demonic Tactics?

Morrigan · 02/26/09, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by Lurker37

I'm not clear on why a build with 3 points in Molten Core is using CoDoom instead of CoA for MC procs. The build is obviously trying to maximise MC uptime, so why forgo the chances to proc from CoA?

Since you're using Shadow Bolt as your main nuke, the MC uptime doesn't get much higher from using CoA, so CoD is more damage in the end.

By the same token, how much does Demonic Pact uptime suffer from the missing point in Improved Demonic Tactics?

3/3 Imp Demonic Tactics should be the better choice, indeed.

Morrigan · 02/26/09, 8:26 PM

Found a bug, Glyph of Imp is not working at all (in the latest version from the trunk)
sc_warlock.cpp, line 534 ... seems like you forgot the parentheses

Edit: with this fixed and Imp glyph instead of CB glyph, 5_13_53 gains ~100 dps.
Edit2: it seems that this bug also had the effect that Improved Imp and Empowered Imp were not being calculated correctly, making all imp-using specs a bit lower than they should have been.

Kalku · 02/26/09, 8:45 PM

You should take corruption out of the destro cycle and see how it does. Destro doesn't have molten core anymore, and corr is lower DPSC than incinerate, so it should be a buff.

Morrigan · 02/26/09, 9:37 PM

Originally Posted by dahaliana

You are on the right track - Decimation is overpowered, and currently on the PTR results in 1.3s cast Soul Fires that cost no shards. With the right amount of haste and spell travel time, you can alternate your Incinerate / Shadowbolt and Soul Fires one after the other.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9626

This build, or something like it, I suspect is going to put up massive numbers. Conflag / Decimation build.

You're right, I've tried everything and ... here I present to you the currently highest DPS spec: 0/40/31 with Imp, Conflag und Immolate glyphs (yes, the new Imp glyph is ~20 dps higher than the Incinerate glyph)

reaches ~6200 DPS in SimCraft, and that is with a somewhat unclean Decimation implementation (I don't think it makes use of the max range trick, but then again they probably are gonna change that anyway).

Edit: due to Conflag bugfix, not true anymore! See first posting for recent charts.

warlock=Warlock_T8_00_40_31
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=0520320521013105100000000000000000000000000000000000000332003011351125301312 00000&glyph=000000000000&version=9614
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/demonic_empowerment/conflagrate/soul_fire,decimation=1/curse_of_agony/corruption/immolate/incinerate/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
enchant_crit_rating=-75
enchant_hit_rating=+75
glyph_imp=1
glyph_immolate=1
glyph_conflagrate=1

• Zakalwe · 02/26/09, 11:29 PM

Yeah simcraft doesn't currently model spell travel time, so I had to fake it. I can change the 1 second to 1.4 or whatever is more accurate.

But regardless of that, there's actually a different bug right now which is causing Soul Fire to be used even less. I'll get that fixed and update my initial post ASAP.

Mystearica · 02/26/09, 11:38 PM

Could you try testing Fire Meta/Ruin? I assume Glyphs would be Incinerate, Felguard, & Metamorphisis or Immolate.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

or

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...0&version=9614

Abominatus_DMF · 02/27/09, 1:03 AM

Originally Posted by Kalku

You should take corruption out of the destro cycle and see how it does. Destro doesn't have molten core anymore, and corr is lower DPSC than incinerate, so it should be a buff.

Of course, Corruption does contribute to 2pcT7, but it's DPCT is just terrible.

In fact, CoA is only marginally higher DPCT than Incinerate as well (according to your breakdown), even with 2/2 Improved Curse of Agony. Without those two points, I think it's actually inferior. Given that Improved Curse of Agony wasn't the greatest talent investment in the first place in terms of DPS per point (in non-affliction builds), it seems like a talent better left untaken.

That leads me to think that you could drop CoA and Corr from the destro rotation entirely, take the 5 points out of affliction (if hitcapped) and stick them into SL/ISL without losing DPS (slight reduction in Lifetap time from ISL). You get a little more survivability and a decent raid buff for little to no cost.

Also, wouldn't Glyph of Immolate be superior for Deep Destruction than Glyph of Chaos Bolt?

Slightly off-topic question: Is a second point in ISL even remotely worth it? If my maths is right, the uptime on the replenishment with 1/2 ISL would already be around 80%.

calderstrake · 02/27/09, 1:49 AM

I hate to say this, but I think UP will need to be moved to lower in the tree for Demonology in order to see real use from ISL. Right now, it's a sacrifice in dps to provide Replenishment, so I don't think many Warlocks will be too inclined to take it.

Morrigan · 02/27/09, 2:14 AM

By the way, I don't think the way SimCraft calculates Conflagration damage is correct. It seems to use the Immolate tick damage after all modifiers, but actual tests show that the Immolate glyph and talents do not increase Conflag damage, which should bring the Decimation/Conflag build down to more reasonable numbers.

brymortis · 02/27/09, 2:35 AM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

You're right, I've tried everything and ... here I present to you the currently highest DPS spec: 0/40/31 with Imp, Conflag und Immolate glyphs (yes, the new Imp glyph is ~20 dps higher than the Incinerate glyph)

reaches ~6200 DPS in SimCraft, and that is with a somewhat unclean Decimation implementation (I don't think it makes use of the max range trick, but then again they probably are gonna change that anyway).

Great find on the spec, do you happen to know what the rotation would be sub 35%?

I find that trying to keep up corruption and agony prevents you from getting more incin/SF off.

Should I drop corruption sub 35% and restrict it to agony?