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04/18/09, 7:53 PM
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#1201
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Von Kaiser
Gnome Warlock
Blade's Edge
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Does the 3/52/16 build take into account that you can stand closer to the boss to pop Immolate Aura when using Metamorphosis, and if so, does it also take into account that you can't do that if the boss is under 35% because you need to be further away for 1:1 weaving?
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04/19/09, 12:12 AM
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#1202
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Piston Honda
Undead Warlock
Doomhammer (EU)
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Originally Posted by Xzael
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1/corruption/curse_of_agony/unstable_affliction/haunt
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1/shadow_bolt/life_tap
How does it prioritize spells, or is that based in the Simulationcraft logic, and this is just a list of abilities it will use (I'm assuming it's not since haunt is listed twice)? Also, what does the "debuff" mean in "haunt,debuff=1", any why don't the other abilities have that parameter?
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Well, I started on this only recently so take this with slight reserve, but:
- logic is expressed thru *.simcraft files, not fixed internaly in simulator (well, at least in above example)
- for each step in simulation when player is able to cast anything, simulator check 'actions" one by one, in order they are stated in simcraft file. When he finds first one that is "available", he execute it
- "Available" action means that you have enough resources(mana) for it, that it is not on CD or already applied on target (if DoT)
- in addition to that, sometimes you want to use more restrictions. For example, you dont want to use drain_soul before execute, so you put additional condition ",health_percentage<=25". Without it, it would be used whole fight
As for possible options, there are two types: those available for any spell, and those specific for certain type of spell.
Among those available to all spells you have "rank", "seq","sync", "time>","time<", "time_to_die>","time_to_die<", "health_percentage>""health_percentage<","bloodlust". You can guess usage of most by name.
Those specific for spells are for example "interrupt=" and "debuff=" in above example, and each works specifically for its own spell. That doesnt mean that spell XYZ can not also have "debuff=" option, but it means it can mean or behave differently ;p
In this particular case, I *think* that debuff=1 restriction means "cast Haunt only if debuff is about to expire (or expired) on mob". In this example, that is different from just "/haunt" since second one means "use haunt as soon as available", which is right after 8sec CD. First one means "use it before 12sec debuff goes out". So you basically told simulator:
If haunt debuff is about to expire, cast haunt. otherwise cast Corr or CoA or UA (whichever is not on mob). If they are all already on mob, then cast normal haunt if its 8sec passed. If haunt is still on 8sec CD, cast Shadow Bolt , unless mob is under 25% in which case cast Drain Soul instead of SB. And other option "Interrupt=1" means "if any spell listed before Drain Soul in actions is ready, stop draining and check again actions in order".
Last edited by nenad : 04/19/09 at 12:22 AM.
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04/19/09, 12:23 AM
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#1203
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Glass Joe
Undead Warlock
Hellscream
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Originally Posted by Bergtau
Does the 3/52/16 build take into account that you can stand closer to the boss to pop Immolate Aura when using Metamorphosis, and if so, does it also take into account that you can't do that if the boss is under 35% because you need to be further away for 1:1 weaving?
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Actually, 1:1 weaving is easier at point-blank than at range. If you are close enough for Immolation Aura, the travel time of Incinerate is zero so you get the buff right away. You can't pre-queue the Soul Fire cast, but as soon the Incin animation happens you get the Decimate buff.
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04/19/09, 3:09 AM
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#1204
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Piston Honda
Gnome Warlock
Alterac Mountains
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No, you are required to be at range to do a 1:1 rotation. The travel time of incinerate is never zero, it is always some small number. If you were to stand on top of the target, you still would be required to pause after each incinerate for a moment, which would absolutely result in a dps loss. I can't see how that would be any easier, it just doesn't compare to the simplicity of standing at max range.
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04/19/09, 9:33 AM
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#1205
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Don Flamenco
Orc Warlock
Laughing Skull (EU)
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Originally Posted by Fecys
What DOTS have priority above soulfire in a 0/41/30 spec?
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I'm assuming all of them since Immolate gives Conflagrate and Corruption + Agony procs Molten Core.
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04/19/09, 10:44 AM
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#1206
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Piston Honda
Undead Warlock
Twisting Nether
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Originally Posted by krilz
I'm assuming all of them since Immolate gives Conflagrate and Corruption + Agony procs Molten Core.
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In the decimation profiles listed in the OP, it comes before the dots. No dot has priority to casting the SF. Any dot is going to break your weaving however, so right after an incinerate might be the least disruptive.
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04/19/09, 11:07 AM
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#1207
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Glass Joe
Deadlyslicer
Orc Warrior
Non-US/EU Server
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Originally Posted by nenad
BTW, seems that some WMO links from above expired - maybe because I was posting them as private logs, or maybe those links to players are not persistent. I refreshed last link, this time with link to fight not to player. Will refresh others when next time I do tests.
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Please keep in mind that WMO only keep wiped log for 7 days.
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04/19/09, 11:30 AM
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#1208
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Glass Joe
Undead Warlock
Haomarush (EU)
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Originally Posted by krilz
Originally Posted by Fecys
What DOTS have priority above soulfire in a 0/41/30 spec?
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I'm assuming all of them since Immolate gives Conflagrate and Corruption + Agony procs Molten Core.
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Incorrect, as the spec mentioned does not utilize conflagrate.
By just looking at the DPET, you should drop both Agony and Corruption once in Decimation range. However, due to the higher DPET and tick frequency of Agony, you should most likely keep this up at all times for molten core procs.
By a simple simulation you could determine this quite fast in two successive runs where one drops corruption and one does not, whichever yields higher output. I recall it has been concluded earlier in this thread that dropping corruption below 35% is suggested (as this is what is used in the simcraft profile: "corruption,health_percentage>=35").
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04/19/09, 1:59 PM
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#1209
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Von Kaiser
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Meta Choice
I saw on the base post that all the specs were ran with one meta gem.
# Meta Gem
chaotic_skyflare=1
So has the Ember Skyflare diamond has lost the "top meta" for even the 53/0/18 spec? Since the majoryity of the haunt/ruin spec damage can now crit I could see that coming. But, as spell power is the strongest stat for haunt/ruin I was curious if that was correct.
25 spell power = 38.75
2% int = approx = 5.4
vs
21 crit = 16.38
3% crit damage = ???
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04/19/09, 6:15 PM
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#1210
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by angaroth
In the decimation profiles listed in the OP, it comes before the dots. No dot has priority to casting the SF. Any dot is going to break your weaving however, so right after an incinerate might be the least disruptive.
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For me it being 56/15 spec for my guilds 10 man group I find it easier to use a dot after soulfire so I will still have 1 decimation proc up because of the previous shadowbolt cast then go right back to 1:1 shadowbolt to soulfire. This is with shadow bolt now and not with bloodlust.My shadow bolt cast time is near 2 secs something like 2.04 with just the totem haste.
A question I have had is it better to do CoA during 35%>0% even if you know another doom will go off for better MC uptime? Also like some have said do you drop corruption in this time also or just weave it in for more MC uptime? I try to use the method above with each dot/lifetaps seems to work ok but I'm not sure if someone else has found that dropping them yields more dps.
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04/20/09, 1:54 AM
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#1211
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Glass Joe
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The (pre 3.1) Spreadsheet values the [Staff of Endless Winter] higher, which makes sense to me. The MH/OH combo of [Runescribed Blade] and [Ironmender] has combined stats of:
97 sta, 98 int, 82 spi, 52 crit, 36 haste, and 624 spell power. The staff has:
111 sta, 128 int, 84 spi, 104 crit, and 625 spell power (assuming you're gemming with Runed Scarlet Rubies).
Ignoring the white stat gains for the moment, the crit gain from using the staff (1.13%) marginally outweighs the loss of haste (1.1%), as I've always understood haste and crit to be worth equivalent amounts on a percentile basis. Combined with the significantly higher health and mana pools obtained through using the staff (and the 0.18% increase in crit from the extra 30 int), the staff is the clear choice.
EDIT: Once the additional 18 spell power from the staff-only enchant is factored in, the staff pulls even farther ahead.
Last edited by Draezaal : 04/20/09 at 1:55 AM.
Reason: Forgot the enchant.
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04/20/09, 9:03 AM
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#1212
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The Chairmaker
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I posted this in the raiding compendium thread, because many people there are claiming conflag still crits for 20k+, but it didn't get much of a response, so I'll post it here too:
If conflag can still crit for 20k, it appears my guess at how to implement the nerf in simcraft was incorrect. I simply multiplied in a 70% modifier after all other buffs. Maybe it's additive with emberstorm or something? Could someone who's specced 0/40/31 please test this in-game?
I'd do it myself, but my account has somehow been permabanned for no discernable reason, so I'm at the mercy of Blizzard's account admin team and their extremely slow response times.
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04/20/09, 12:38 PM
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#1213
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Glass Joe
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I am speced 0/40/31 and ever since the hotfix i have not been getting 20k conflags not even close highest ones i have seen are around 14-15k.
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04/20/09, 12:42 PM
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#1214
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Glass Joe
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Nvm was wrong
Last edited by Dragones : 04/20/09 at 4:42 PM.
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04/20/09, 12:52 PM
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#1215
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Banned
Gnome Warlock
Король-лич (EU)
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Nerfed? When? I saw yesterday enchant +81 spd.
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04/20/09, 12:55 PM
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#1216
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Dragones
They nerfed the enchant down to 69 spell damage.
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No, not really. You're referring to the trainer enchant.
There's a more expensive version that gives you 81 spell power.
Enchant Staff - Greater Spellpower - Spell - World of Warcraft
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They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.
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04/20/09, 1:01 PM
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#1217
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Warlock
Deathwing
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I searched the thread but didn't find anything. What's the option for turning off SF/Inc weaving?
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04/20/09, 3:35 PM
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#1218
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Von Kaiser
Human Warlock
Kargath (EU)
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Without anything that can proc and without fel armor and without a hat (meta) with 1778 spell power I get:
Immolate tick: 883
Conflagrate: 3321
And with 0 spell power:
Immolate tick: 253
Conflagrate: 923
Build is 3/13/55 with Immolate glyph.
Conflagrate does more than just 70% of the ticks.
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04/20/09, 3:35 PM
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#1219
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe
If conflag can still crit for 20k, it appears my guess at how to implement the nerf in simcraft was incorrect. I simply multiplied in a 70% modifier after all other buffs. Maybe it's additive with emberstorm or something? Could someone who's specced 0/40/31 please test this in-game?
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I haven't tried it out myself but yesterday while i was practicing my weaving there was another lock at the dummy who was running 40/31 who claimed to have crit those numbers this week. I will try it out myself as well to see if I get them too.
On a similar note, even assuming conflag doesn't crit for those number, is it possible that since it less reliant on a pet and perhaps less reliant on perfect weaving that it would realistically come out ahead of 41/30 in Ulduar?
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04/20/09, 3:48 PM
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#1220
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Von Kaiser
Undead Warlock
Kil'Jaeden
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Originally Posted by Tumah
I haven't tried it out myself but yesterday while i was practicing my weaving there was another lock at the dummy who was running 40/31 who claimed to have crit those numbers this week. I will try it out myself as well to see if I get them too.
On a similar note, even assuming conflag doesn't crit for those number, is it possible that since it less reliant on a pet and perhaps less reliant on perfect weaving that it would realistically come out ahead of 41/30 in Ulduar?
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Although slightly less reliant on your pets dps, it's still highly reliant on buffs you get from having the pet present.
Last edited by Illijilli : 04/20/09 at 3:55 PM.
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04/20/09, 5:08 PM
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#1221
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Banned
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe
I posted this in the raiding compendium thread, because many people there are claiming conflag still crits for 20k+, but it didn't get much of a response, so I'll post it here too:
If conflag can still crit for 20k, it appears my guess at how to implement the nerf in simcraft was incorrect. I simply multiplied in a 70% modifier after all other buffs. Maybe it's additive with emberstorm or something? Could someone who's specced 0/40/31 please test this in-game?
I'd do it myself, but my account has somehow been permabanned for no discernable reason, so I'm at the mercy of Blizzard's account admin team and their extremely slow response times.
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This is 100% true, I am getting 18K crits in a TEN man, and do hit 20K-28K crits inside of a 25 man. 28K say on XT-002's heart, and 20K on a normal boss mob. I'm not joking, and got screenshots to prove it. I posted these screenshots on the raiding compendium thread...lemme check what page it was on...see page 8 of the 3.1 raiding compendium to see the proof. I do not believe Simcraft to be modeling the 0/40/31 spec right now. I tested on Iron Council ten man, and XT-002 25 man. I don't have the data on XT, but page 8 will show the 10 man proof.
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04/20/09, 5:14 PM
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#1222
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Glass Joe
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Given the stats for the T8 Affliction profile:
gear_stamina=961
gear_strength=0
gear_agility=0
gear_intellect=848
gear_spirit=365
gear_attack_power=0
gear_expertise_rating=0
gear_armor_penetration_rating=0
gear_spell_power=2348
gear_hit_rating=292
gear_crit_rating=571
gear_haste_rating=454
tier8_2pc=1
tier8_4pc=1
Where, in that profile, Affliction is higher than the next highest build by roughly 70 DPS. These numbers give a decent idea of when Affliction will surpass 0/41/30 by about 70 DPS, but at what point will the 2 specs just about break even? Does 1 spec benefit more greatly from 2 piece/4 piece T8 more so than the other, and how does that influence the threshold for Affliction surpassing 0/41/30?
I'm currently sitting at 377 hit, 526 haste, 375 crit, 545 spirit, 886 Int (factoring in the Demo talent), 2025 SP completely unbuffed, along with having all the relevant Aff. glyphs/4 piece T7 at the moment. What I'm really wondering is, how far am I from being at a point where Affliction is the optimal spec again, and will I need to move from 4 piece t7 to 2, or 4 piece T8 to do it (assuming T8 would benefit Aff. more than 0/41/30)?
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04/20/09, 5:27 PM
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#1223
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The Chairmaker
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Originally Posted by Leil
This is 100% true, I am getting 18K crits in a TEN man, and do hit 20K-28K crits inside of a 25 man. 28K say on XT-002's heart, and 20K on a normal boss mob. I'm not joking, and got screenshots to prove it. I posted these screenshots on the raiding compendium thread...lemme check what page it was on...see page 8 of the 3.1 raiding compendium to see the proof. I do not believe Simcraft to be modeling the 0/40/31 spec right now. I tested on Iron Council ten man, and XT-002 25 man. I don't have the data on XT, but page 8 will show the 10 man proof.
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I don't need proof that it can crit for 20k, I need detailed testing, specific numbers from training dummies. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out the exact mechanics if I can just get three simple numbers: The damage of an immolate tick, the damage of a conflag on the same immolate, and your total spell power at the time of the test. No buffs, no random procs, and no debuffs on the target would make for easier math.
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04/20/09, 5:28 PM
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#1224
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Glass Joe
Undead Warlock
Whisperwind
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Originally Posted by Leil
This is 100% true, I am getting 18K crits in a TEN man, and do hit 20K-28K crits inside of a 25 man. 28K say on XT-002's heart, and 20K on a normal boss mob. I'm not joking, and got screenshots to prove it. I posted these screenshots on the raiding compendium thread...lemme check what page it was on...see page 8 of the 3.1 raiding compendium to see the proof. I do not believe Simcraft to be modeling the 0/40/31 spec right now. I tested on Iron Council ten man, and XT-002 25 man. I don't have the data on XT, but page 8 will show the 10 man proof.
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We are getting a bit different numbers though, here is the parse from 25 XT-002:
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay( XT-002)
max conflag was 15,448
A bit better on 25 Ignis
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay(Ignis)
max conflag: 16,742
But still far from 20K, maybe just bad luck?
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04/20/09, 6:59 PM
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#1225
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe
I don't need proof that it can crit for 20k, I need detailed testing, specific numbers from training dummies. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out the exact mechanics if I can just get three simple numbers: The damage of an immolate tick, the damage of a conflag on the same immolate, and your total spell power at the time of the test. No buffs, no random procs, and no debuffs on the target would make for easier math.
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Without Immolate glyph/with Fel Armour - 987 immolate ticks, 3578 conflag, 2483 spellpower.
With Immolate glyph/with Fel Armour - 1052 immolate ticks, 3841 conflag, 2483 spellpower.
Without Immolate glyph/without Fel Armour - 831 immolate ticks, 3014 conflag, 1968 spellpower.
With Immlate glyph/without Fel Armour - 887 immolate ticks, 3235 conflag, 1968 spellpower.
All was done on the level 80 dummy due to the boss one being having every debuff known to man on it.
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