SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 51

Vux · 04/21/09, 6:25 PM

Is there any reason why hit rating isn't included in the original post?

It would still be useful for determining gear upgrades from Naxx to Ulduar where re-gemming elsewhere is possible.

Here's what I got from running r2127:

Scale Factors:
Warlock_T8_53_00_18
hit_rating=2.01
spell_power=1.43
haste_rating=0.92
crit_rating=0.79
spirit=0.74
intellect=0.20

heemo · 04/21/09, 7:37 PM

Originally Posted by fallenman

Actually, you're correct. I made a mistake on the spell power for Staff of Endless Winters, and was using 668 spell power, instead of the 700 spell power it should have.

Looks like the second tier arena dagger + Ironmender will beat out the staff by a tiny margin. Good news if your raid can't average 12-15k dps/player on Hodir. :P Even the first tier arena dagger beats out Soulscribe because of the socket.

Warlocomotif · 04/21/09, 10:08 PM

We were doing Mimiron tonight, and I noticed some strange behaviour with demonic pact:

Wow Web Stats

If you look at that, it all looks great, however click the 'next' button and you'll find almost the entire next page filled with crits that arent followed by a demonic pact buff.

genobi · 04/21/09, 11:51 PM

I noticed some odd behavior today from demonic pact just on test dummies with a party of people to test it. Sometimes one person in the party would not gain demonic pact and the same issue you described with the crit happening and no demonic pact buff while I was solo on the dummy.

Arnath · 04/22/09, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by Vux

Is there any reason why hit rating isn't included in the original post?

It would still be useful for determining gear upgrades from Naxx to Ulduar where re-gemming elsewhere is possible.

The gear sets assume you're hit capped.

Medieval · 04/22/09, 3:07 AM

has anyone accounted for Lightweave proc yet? The damn thing appears to proc off everything as of now.

Darkmantle · 04/22/09, 3:54 AM

Originally Posted by Medieval

has anyone accounted for Lightweave proc yet? The damn thing appears to proc off everything as of now.

Simulationcraft doesn't model profession specific perks because there are too many and it is not worth the bother for a simulator that already models so much. The usual approximation used for the dps contribution of the lightweave proc is 250*15/(45+5)= 75 spell damage.

timb111 · 04/22/09, 4:37 AM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

We were doing Mimiron tonight, and I noticed some strange behaviour with demonic pact:

Wow Web Stats

If you look at that, it all looks great, however click the 'next' button and you'll find almost the entire next page filled with crits that arent followed by a demonic pact buff.

I'm not seeing that, possibly because it gives a syntax error for your filter?

Natasmai · 04/22/09, 9:02 AM

Warlock_T8_00_41_30 intellect=0.28 spirit=0.78 spell_power=1.22 crit_rating=0.67 haste_rating=1.27
Warlock_T8_03_52_16 intellect=0.40 spirit=1.08 spell_power=1.18 crit_rating=0.71 haste_rating=1.27

If this was posted already I am sorry, I scanned thru the last few pages I missed while I was afk for a few days and didnt see anything.

Is there a reason that Haste is actually rated higher than spell power for the demon heavy builds? Also I know these are calculated assuming hit capped, but I was curious what other people use for hit rating on gear when determining which hit rating items they want to use? You still have to apply some number to hit rating to determine which items are the better upgrades, no? Normally I have been using a number just slightly higher than whatever spell power is rated for since spell power is always higher, but now Im not sure what's going on with haste.

Oh and just to be sure, Incinerate is a better glyph than Immolate for 41/30 spec, but not for the Metamorph specs?

Yeda · 04/22/09, 9:14 AM

Thats because Meta builds, dont use Incinerate at all.

I tested the glyph of meta against glyph of immolate on SVN build of simcraft, and appears meta glyph is giving me a (very) slight dps increase. Can someone more comfortable with simcraft do some testing to bac me up?

Warlocomotif · 04/22/09, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by timb111

I'm not seeing that, possibly because it gives a syntax error for your filter?

Wow Web Stats

Try that one, anyway- during PTR I heard some rumours about priests who had previously been specced into improved divine spirit causing this problem (Divine spirit overwriting demonic pact). This appears to be not accurate. What I can say however, is that it appears to be somehow related to divine spirit. What the exact trigger is, I don't know- however (in the very limited testing ive managed to do):

I had a priest cast divine spirit on me and I failed to proc demonic pact
I clicked it off, and managed to proc demonic pact
The priest recasted divine spirit, and demonic pact worked again

Unfortunately I did not get a combat log from this, had I known it would've turned out this confusing I would have >_<
For the time being I might spec out of demonic pact.

[edit] I have created a thread on the wow-europe forums to try and get some collaborative information on this issue:
World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Demonic Pact not proccing

Natasmai · 04/22/09, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Yeda

Thats because Meta builds, dont use Incinerate at all.

I tested the glyph of meta against glyph of immolate on SVN build of simcraft, and appears meta glyph is giving me a (very) slight dps increase. Can someone more comfortable with simcraft do some testing to bac me up?

Doh, that was my mistake. I meant to ask if immolate is better than meta glyph. I was cut short typing the response here at work. Thats what happens when your train of thought gets derailed. So incinerate is better than immolate for 41/30 but Meta glyph is not better than immolate for the others? I guess Meta is a difficult talent to model itself let alone trying to determine if extra length is better than the immolate improvement. It would seem the meta glyph gets better the longer the fight lasts and the more likely you are to use the extra time given by the glyph more than once per combat.

Andoron · 04/22/09, 1:17 PM

I'm still debating personally on Meta vs Immolate glyph, to me it comes down to the following:
1. With Meta glyph you can get 2 Immolation Aura casts off (this is an assumption - as i don't have the glyph now). Can be very handy.
2. Immolate glyph is a completely passive bonus, so if you are not efficient about remembering to pop meta you will be penalized less.

terrace215 · 04/22/09, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by fallenman

I also think you're underestimating the 4pc T8 bonus. It's roughly a 5% dps increase to our main nuke, and using the numbers from the simcraft, we can use some quick napkin math to see how this might affect results. In the simulation, 87 shadowbolts are cast, with 39% of those critting, while the average crit is 12,863. That gives us 33 crits * 12,863, for a total of 424,479. If we up the crit rate to 44%, we get 38 crits * 12,863, for a total of 488,794. Splitting the difference, that's 64,315 extra damage over a 300 second fight, for a total 214 dps increase.

Hang on-- you seem to be saying that the 4t8 grants 5 extra crit SBs in this simulation, and you are calculating

5 * (crit_SB_dmg) = 5 * 12,863 = 64315 extra dmg / 300 = 214 dps increase.

But, shouldn't it really be:

5 * (crit_SB_dmg - non_crit_SB_dmg) ? The 5 SBs that don't crit still do their normal damage.

Don't have that figure handy, but I imagine it is somewhat less than 1/2 the crit value.

So, guessing the 4t8 is worth ~120 dps, not 214.

No?

Or by "average crit" of 12,863, is that already just the "extra" dmg from the crit portion on top of the normal SB dmg? In which case, ignore everything I just said

fallenman · 04/22/09, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by terrace215

Hang on-- you seem to be saying that the 4t8 grants 5 extra crit SBs in this simulation, and you are calculating

5 * (crit_SB_dmg) = 5 * 12,863 = 64315 extra dmg / 300 = 214 dps increase.

But, shouldn't it really be:

5 * (crit_SB_dmg - non_crit_SB_dmg) ? The 5 SBs that don't crit still do their normal damage.

Don't have that figure handy, but I imagine it is somewhat less than 1/2 the crit value.

So, guessing the 4t8 is worth ~120 dps, not 214.

No?

Or by "average crit" of 12,863, is that already just the "extra" dmg from the crit portion on top of the normal SB dmg? In which case, ignore everything I just said

Yep you are correct. The 5 normal SB's would account for 5317 * 5 for a total of 26,585. Taking the difference from the 5 crit SB's (64,315), we get 37,730 / 300 = 126dps increase. Still a very substantial gain. I've added this to my original post.

Dragones · 04/22/09, 11:15 PM

Anyone looked into making a new gear list, or updating the gear list page on the previous page with using 4/5 t8 and the new pvp weapon since the last few posts have math showing it being better then 2/5 and off pieces.

ugark · 04/23/09, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Izoul

We are getting a bit different numbers though, here is the parse from 25 XT-002:

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay( XT-002)

max conflag was 15,448

A bit better on 25 Ignis

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay(Ignis)

max conflag: 16,742

But still far from 20K, maybe just bad luck?

I've definately seen some decent digits off conflag, (not as nice as pre nerf, saw 24k's there :P)
This was Last night, 40/31

Freya - 16,825
Wow Web Stats - Freya

Xt (cheating since it was on heart :P) - 22987
Wow Web Stats - Xt

If I lined up all the procs, whistles and bells I think I possibly could get 18k on normal, 20k is a bit harder.

Liania · 04/23/09, 4:22 AM

Freya also had dmg modifiers, 50% more dmg when near mushrooms, so its MOST likely around 12-13.5k instead of your 16k crit.

I dont get why people keep posting logs and screenshots from fights where your dmg is boosted by 50-100% show me a log from the crazy cat lady or thorim for that matter.

As an example, when all my shit procs I reach around 4k-4.1k sp and still I only get 14.5-15k MAX crits off conflagrate.

It is NOT possible to currently get above 16k crits on conflagrate no matter what you say its not possible unless you got modifiers or the like, but ofcourse your more than welcome to try and prove me wrong.

But nice try.

Warlocomotif · 04/23/09, 7:15 AM

Potent Pheromones is a 25% damage increase.

Liania · 04/23/09, 7:19 AM

Either way his data is flawed.

Scrufola · 04/23/09, 7:58 AM

Simcraft uses two immolation auras per meta. It would be nice if this could be configured with an option. With the default gear, the DPS comes out the same. With lesser gear using Immolation twice per meta comes out in advance.

DPS Ranking:
   6953  100.0%  Warlock_T8_00_56_15 (39 Immolation ticks)
   6954  100.0%  Warlock_T8_00_56_15 (30 Immolation ticks)

Player=Warlock_T8_00_56_15  DPS=6953.3 (Error=+/-2.0 Range=+/-696)  DPR=19.4  RPS=358.8/299.8  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=54  agility=55  stamina=1131  intellect=1002  spirit=448  health=14661  mana=19055
  Spell Stats:  power=2383  hit=14.2%  crit=18.0%  penetration=0  haste=14.8%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=44  hit=11.4%  crit=14.0%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0.0  haste=14.8%
  Defense Stats:  armor=110
  Actions:
    corruption            Count= 11.3|19.9sec  DPE= 7528| 4%  DPET= 5856  DPR=  13.9  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=68  Tick=1255
    curse_of_doom         Count=  4.3|61.0sec  DPE=17499| 4%  DPET=13615  DPR=  30.2  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=4  Tick=18908
    immolate              Count= 18.7|16.3sec  DPE= 9552| 9%  DPET= 7943  DPR=  14.5  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1837  Crit= 3841| 5093|42.4%  TickCount=90  Tick=1426
    immolation            Count=  4.0|52.3sec  DPE=15270| 3%  DPET=11879  DPR=   6.2  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=39  Tick=1553
    shadow_bolt           Count=105.1| 2.8sec  DPE= 8487|43%  DPET= 4437  DPR=  12.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5600  Crit=11705|15186|47.3%
    soul_fire             Count= 21.5| 3.5sec  DPE=12174|13%  DPET=10085  DPR=  35.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8339  Crit=17422|22963|42.2%
   felguard
    cleave                Count= 49.0| 6.0sec  DPE= 2151| 5%  DPET=  359  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1740  Crit= 3479| 3769|30.2%  Dodge=6.6%
    felguard_melee        Count=205.3| 1.5sec  DPE= 2043|20%  DPET= 1403  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1706  Crit= 3412| 3730|32.2%  Glance=1280|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_T8_00_56_15  DPS=6954.1 (Error=+/-2.0 Range=+/-641)  DPR=20.1  RPS=346.6/288.4  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=54  agility=55  stamina=1131  intellect=1002  spirit=448  health=14661  mana=19055
  Spell Stats:  power=2383  hit=14.2%  crit=18.0%  penetration=0  haste=14.8%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=44  hit=11.4%  crit=14.0%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0.0  haste=14.8%
  Defense Stats:  armor=110
  Actions:
    corruption            Count= 11.6|19.5sec  DPE= 7577| 4%  DPET= 5894  DPR=  14.0  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=70  Tick=1263
    curse_of_doom         Count=  4.4|61.2sec  DPE=17308| 4%  DPET=13465  DPR=  29.9  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=4  Tick=18910
    immolate              Count= 18.5|16.4sec  DPE= 9623| 9%  DPET= 8002  DPR=  14.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1843  Crit= 3849| 5093|42.3%  TickCount=90  Tick=1428
    immolation            Count=  2.0|126.2sec  DPE=23055| 2%  DPET=17930  DPR=   9.3  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=30  Tick=1537
    shadow_bolt           Count=107.2| 2.7sec  DPE= 8476|44%  DPET= 4428  DPR=  12.9  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5592  Crit=11687|15186|47.3%
    soul_fire             Count= 21.2| 3.5sec  DPE=12200|12%  DPET=10113  DPR=  35.1  Miss=0.0%  Hit=8352  Crit=17456|22963|42.3%
   felguard
    cleave                Count= 49.0| 6.0sec  DPE= 2150| 5%  DPET=  358  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1740  Crit= 3480| 3769|30.1%  Dodge=6.5%
    felguard_melee        Count=205.5| 1.5sec  DPE= 2044|20%  DPET= 1404  DPR=   0.0  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1706  Crit= 3412| 3730|32.3%  Glance=1280|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Memnarchon · 04/23/09, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by Liania

Freya also had dmg modifiers, 50% more dmg when near mushrooms, so its MOST likely around 12-13.5k instead of your 16k crit.

Wrong. Freya's mushrooms give you 25% damage increased buff.
Source: Potent Pheromones - Spell - World of Warcraft

Edit: Sorry I didn't see the next post. You may delete this.

Soundlevel · 04/23/09, 8:04 AM

Originally Posted by Medieval

has anyone accounted for Lightweave proc yet? The damn thing appears to proc off everything as of now.

I've had it proc from creating a bandage even...
But as fas as i know this was going to be fixed. Or at least i think i read that somewhere. Can't find source however..

Tinava · 04/23/09, 9:18 AM

Were you still looking for 40/31 parses Zakalwe?

Here is one, from last night. WMO.

Natasmai · 04/23/09, 3:56 PM

Bakka just finished up his 3.1 spreadsheet. I loaded up my information and it doesnt show haste being better than spell power, I still think that haste having a higher value than spell power on your output for demon based specs is showing a mistake somewhere.

Also his sheet shows the following values for DPS increases for glyphs based on my armory and my 0/41/30 felguard spec...

Incinerate --- 163.46
Lifetap ------ 145.31
Felguard ---- 67.39
Immolate --- 55.23
CoA ---------- 25.89

So the results match the latest findings about switching out Immolate for Incinerate, however it doesnt seem to be even a close comparison. I'm not saying Bakka's sheet is completely accurate since it is the first release and I am sure there are bugs to be found and since your program has been going through constant tweaking for weeks now since 3.1 hit the PTR, I am just trying to compare results hoping to see some correlation between them.