I've tried to generate an updated best in slot Ulduar gear set now that we know what Algalon drops.
I don't quite understand why we use Best in Slot gear as a benchmark for the SimCraft data. It's fair to say that if you can equip BiS gear (i.e. kill Algalon) then your DPS is pretty good anyways. I understand people will still want to min/max their output but it would seem more valuable if we chose our gear benchmarks to be at more realistic gear levels, say Normal mode full clear and a selection of early hard modes? That way more valuable and meaningful comparisons can be seen?
I don't quite understand why we use Best in Slot gear as a benchmark for the SimCraft data.
We don't just use current best in slot gear. Check the OP. There are two linked gear sets. One is pre-Ulduar best in slot (T7 heroic instances all on farm) and the other is Ulduar best in slot (Ulduar heroic hard modes on farm). Anything in between is difficult to effectively quantify and largely pointless, as everyone is at different levels of progression and has their own unique set of acquired items and farmable hard modes - there is no fixed point around which to calculate. If you personally have done an easy mode clear plus, say, three hard modes, I suggest you go and download SimulationCraft, plug your own stats in, look at the LootRank or Wowhead pages your report links to and have a look at your very own upgrades list.
For those who have a problem with threat being too high, I have listed 0/13/58 talent builds with 2 points in Destructive Reach. The DPS are calculated with the latest Simcraft version: 2352.
Please note that the 0/13/58 definition file from Simcraft does not use the same talent build as the one on the first post of this thread. I think this is a mistake and they should be the same.
Therefore Warlock_T8_00_13_58_WEB is the talent build found on post one and Warlock_T8_00_13_58 is the one found in the simcraft package.
SPEC
DPS
Change
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_WEB
7780
0.00%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_BACKLASH2OF3
7726
-0.69%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_DEMAEGIS2OF3
7720
-0.77%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_PYRO2OF3
7719
-0.78%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_EMPIMP2OF3
7711
-0.89%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58
7703
-0.99%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_ISL1OF2
7701
-1.02%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_DEMPOW1OF2
7701
-1.02%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_SAF4OF5
7648
-1.70%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_FB4OF5
7607
-2.22%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_EMBER4OF5
7531
-3.20%
Warlock_T8_00_13_58_BACKDRAFT2OF3
7500
-3.60%
Update 2009/07/01: 2 new variations suggested by phimuajedi69 added.
They're based on certain ideal gear sets, and obviously the available hit gear and non-hit gear aren't going to be equally optimal for a certain set of builds - some will scale better than others.
If you personally have done an easy mode clear plus, say, three hard modes, I suggest you go and download SimulationCraft, plug your own stats in, look at the LootRank or Wowhead pages your report links to and have a look at your very own upgrades list.
I of course have read the OP and am aware of the pre-Ulduar gear comparison. Unfortunately this leaves a pretty big gulf in terms of gear options. Whilst I can and do run my own Simcraft I merely thought that adding a third gear level, roughly equivalent to 4xT8 and some common upgrades from the T7 set might make for more meaningful information for those who don't run Simcraft.
If the answer to every suggestion on augmenting the first post is "dload and run your own if you're not happy" then we could easily argue that the whole thread is redundant? I just believe that as a resource for warlocks striving to achieve their best we could do better in terms of the information we supply initially, thats all.
If the answer to every suggestion on augmenting the first post is "dload and run your own if you're not happy" then we could easily argue that the whole thread is redundant? I just believe that as a resource for warlocks striving to achieve their best we could do better in terms of the information we supply initially, thats all.
I think that maybe a more positive interpretation to this would be the recoginition that the community values Simulationcraft and using it as an engine for a new tool that would allow for tweaking the inputs would be regarded as useful. Something that took into account armory gear and toggled buffs ala Rawr but used these calculations. It's not necessariy that Simulationcraft itself should become this.
You can use even now with simulation your own gear from Armory, instead of supplied BiS. In fact, for anyone that want to check best options for themselves, that is best choice. For example, this is enough to run simulation for your own character:
opt_raid.simcraft
armory=Region,Server,Player
where region=eu,us... and server is your realm name. It will use "default" actions based on your spec, but you can specify your own actions by just adding them after, or you can change glyphs or talents by adding new value after 'armory', but keeping your gear ... so for example:
I can't check this until I get home, but I have a quick question. Does simulationcraft make a guess based on your spec? If I logged out in my pvp spec, but have a pve spec I could use instead, does it choose the PVE spec or is there an option to select which spec you're using? for example,
spec=primary,affliction or something like that?
It makes guess based on talent spec, not gear spec. And it uses that "guess" only for action list, if none supplied - so if you have for example talent like chaos_bolt, it will decide to use action list suitable for destro warlock. Of course, you can always supply your own action list, like in second example above, in which case no guessing will be needed.
Thanks for these numbers eredor, been thinking about finding a second point fo threat reduction for a while now. Just noticed a couple unexplored options that I hope you have time to take a look at to see how they compare to the others:
1) 1/2 Demonic power
2) 2/3 Demonic Aegis (technically makes the build 0/12/59), probably one of the worst options but for completness it is an option
Short question, is there a simple way to get the "gear_" values from a char or chardev set? Chardev just shows basestats + gearstats when i see correctly.
Short question, is there a simple way to get the "gear_" values from a char or chardev set? Chardev just shows basestats + gearstats when i see correctly.
result will be file "save_Name.simcraft" with all player related options, including stats of each individual item, but at end of file there will be commented "gear_" summary values, something like:
But of course, if you needed gear_ values just to run simulation, you can skip that step and just use "armory=eu,Server,Name" in simulation - it will get needed gear,talents etc.
From chardev site simcraft can not currently help you, so need to look directly at site.
Saying that others are doing it, no matter what guild they are in, is a poor argument. The soul-link spec may be better for surviving more easily hard modes, but certainly it comes at a dps cost.
ISL gives you time to use other instant casts instead of life tapping. I am not sure where you guys actually figure out that Ulduar fights have so much movement. Most are occasional movements here and there, which can all be filled by conflag, corruption, deathcoil, or LT if you need, but again, ISL increases the fill time with dps, and not tapping.
Not saying that soul-link spec is worse, I may end up going soul-link, 2/2 reach and shadowfury, simply because I find myself threat capped very often, and the extra utility and survivability is nice for hard modes. But I sure would miss ISL.
Take a look at last night's XT-002 hard mode, mana gained. Data from World of logs.
Life Tap 71060 mana
Soul Leech Mana 36303 mana
Replenishment 30131 mana
Judgement of Wisdom 5474 mana
Hymn of Hope 3558 mana
Revitalize 1535 mana
Currently hit rating is given at a 1:1 ratio to our pets. If you have 13% hit (342) that is well above the hitcap for your felguard (Melee hitcap is 8%, or 262 hit rating). This change was most likely designed around hitcapping hunter pets, with an oversight of misery/iff.
Results from simcraft-r2713 with
opt_raid.simcraft
armory=EU,Aggramar,Kruk
glyphs=conflagrate/incinerate/immolate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=90/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap
Actually currently in game the imp hits 100% when my hit rating is 343 (a little past 13%), which feels like a bug to me- but whatever. Simulationcraft having your imp miss 13% is definitely a bug.
You are in raid, with Draenei in your party and a boomkin or SP applying boss debuff? Then 13% is hit cap, thus all correct.
Nope, all my unit frames are 'faded' because no one is in range. During the entire time testing I was never in range oif a draenei, and there was never an SP/Boomkin debuff on the dummy (This is why I was testing it in exodar). The reason I'm in a raid is because raid invites had just started. If you look in chat you'll see the raid invite was around 30 seconds before I took the screenshot.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Nope, all my unit frames are 'faded' because no one is in range. During the entire time testing I was never in range oif a draenei, and there was never an SP/Boomkin debuff on the dummy (This is why I was testing it in exodar). The reason I'm in a raid is because raid invites had just started. If you look in chat you'll see the raid invite was around 30 seconds before I took the screenshot.
I never casted, however it's the boss training dummy and I have 13% hit rating, meaning I would have missed 4%. If my imp gained 1 hit rating for every 1 hit rating I have, than it should have also missed 4%.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open.
Results from simcraft-r2713 with opt_raid.simcraft
<snip>
Why my Imp has miss chance 13%? (only Misery and Heroic Presence affect it and not my Hit?).
Is it bug? Anyone observed it too?
I'm not seeing this in my local repository.... so perhaps one of the other devs solved the problem. I'm not sure when the bug was introduced or when it was fixed..... but I do know there will be a new release this Sunday.....
where region=eu,us... and server is your realm name.
Much needed feature but it seems as if the armory import doesnt like ' in the realm name. When I use my server Anub'arak simcraft quits with an "error incorrect option format" message. Is there a workaround for this problem?
You can edit the simcraft definition files to remove things like life tap from the action list and alter the raid buff definitions to subtract out blessing of wisdom and replenishment. I haven't done this personally, especially since this kind of thing in particular would be very specific to your own gearing levels.
06/24/09, 12:58 PM
