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Old 03/27/09, 12:21 PM   #1021
gherkin
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Rexxar
Originally Posted by Tinava View Post
Hmm. Reviewing the OP, I see that lifetap glyph has taken precedence over the incinerate glyph on fire builds. Is it that big of a dps increase over the incinerate glyph then?
Using 3/13/55 as an example:

Using 1.49 spell power scaling and 500 spirit, 500 x .2 x 1.49 = Glyph of Life Tap (every 20) is 149 dps for 20 seconds

Incinerate's DPET (Damage Per Execution Time) is 4984 which makes up 48% of your dps, 4984 x .05 x .48 = Glyph of Incinerate119.6 dps.

Using Lifetap "As needed" (estimate puts it at around 30 seconds, dependant on Replenishment, mana pool, etc) makes Glyph of Lifetap (as needed) 100 dps (20/30 = 2/3rds as much).

However, you can lifetap while moving such that it doesn't mess with your rotation when you have time to dps. You can't incinerate while moving.

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Old 03/27/09, 1:02 PM   #1022
trangoul
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Dalvengyr
Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
Using 3/13/55 as an example:

Using 1.49 spell power scaling and 500 spirit, 500 x .2 x 1.49 = Glyph of Life Tap (every 20) is 149 dps for 20 seconds

Incinerate's DPET (Damage Per Execution Time) is 4984 which makes up 48% of your dps, 4984 x .05 x .48 = Glyph of Incinerate119.6 dps.

Using Lifetap "As needed" (estimate puts it at around 30 seconds, dependant on Replenishment, mana pool, etc) makes Glyph of Lifetap (as needed) 100 dps (20/30 = 2/3rds as much).

However, you can lifetap while moving such that it doesn't mess with your rotation when you have time to dps. You can't incinerate while moving.
Also, keep in mind that certain gear sets will offer differing values of spirit. My current set, which doesn't have best in slot, but does have 4pc t7, has ~650 spirit normally and then 950 with the proc making the glyph worth substantially more than these calculations.

The glyphs are obviously close to each other, and in certain situations each one will potentially out dps the other, it all comes down to the circumstances of the given fight / gear.

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Old 03/27/09, 1:21 PM   #1023
supplicium
Don Flamenco
 
supplicium's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
For example, In 4ptc t7 going into ulduar LT is a much better glyph not only do you get spirit value *.2*.149 you get (300*.2)+(300*.39 /2)*1.49 (assuming Demonic Aegis) in other words you end up with 89.4+87.165 or 176.565 dps + dps from LT glyph.

And damn I went to move my car before posting this and It all ready got posted. But I supose it's good to see the dps numbers behind it.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 03/27/09, 2:41 PM   #1024
Varney
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Farstriders
edit: redundant info re: chaos bolt changes

Last edited by Varney : 03/27/09 at 3:14 PM.

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Old 03/27/09, 2:56 PM   #1025
Arnath
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warlock
 
Tichondrius
I'm pretty sure this is just a reporting of the increase in Chaos Bolt damage people noticed a few days ago and as such, has already been put into the Simcraft results.

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Old 03/27/09, 6:18 PM   #1026
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Arnath View Post
I'm pretty sure this is just a reporting of the increase in Chaos Bolt damage people noticed a few days ago and as such, has already been put into the Simcraft results.
Has the coefficient also been tested back then or does Simcraft only include the changed base damage?
From the patch notes I'd guess they changed the coefficient as well unless they assume you fight naked.

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Old 03/27/09, 6:27 PM   #1027
Malathar
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Blackhand
The 15% dmg on the patch notes is just reflecting the previous change that put Chaos bolt up to ~1800 max dmg. With Emberstorm it shows max at 2085 on tooltip on PTR right now.

If it was a coefficient change, they would have worded it as a coefficient change. As they did when they changed immolate's coefficient. It was simply a base damage change.

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Old 03/27/09, 6:35 PM   #1028
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Malathar View Post
The 15% dmg on the patch notes is just reflecting the previous change that put Chaos bolt up to ~1800 max dmg. With Emberstorm it shows max at 2085 on tooltip on PTR right now.

If it was a coefficient change, they would have worded it as a coefficient change. As they did when they changed immolate's coefficient. It was simply a base damage change.
The patch note says "Chaos Bolt: Damage increased approximately 15%.".
The base damage increase of 15% has of course been noticed earlier but to match the patch notes, you'd need to have a 15% coefficient increase as well, otherwise they'd have explicitely stated "Base damage increased by approximately 15%.".
This would also be logical as currently deep destro even without taking Replenishment is quite a bit behind the better specs.

Edit: Has anyone actually tested if there was a coefficient change? Sadly I can't test it because I had to copy my DK onto multiple servers leaving no copies for my Warlock.

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Old 03/27/09, 7:27 PM   #1029
Morrigan
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Originally Posted by Hidden View Post
Edit: Has anyone actually tested if there was a coefficient change?
I just did, and there is none.


old coefficient is 2.5/3.5, so the formula with SnF and emberstorm would be:
Dmg = (BaseDmg + SpellPower*(2.5/3.5)*1.2) * 1.15
I had 2092 spellpower during the test, which gives us a possible damage range of 3705 - 4147 for the new base damage (1429 - 1813).

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Old 03/27/09, 7:48 PM   #1030
supplicium
Don Flamenco
 
supplicium's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by Hidden View Post
Edit: Has anyone actually tested if there was a coefficient change? Sadly I can't test it because I had to copy my DK onto multiple servers leaving no copies for my Warlock.
I will test right Now, I'm using a 0 coeficient boost spec (it's pretty hard to get all the way down destro w/o getting a single coefficient change (aside from +crit bonus)

Current in 0 spellpower it's 1813 max 1429 min so thats an average of 1621

at 499 spellpower it hits for 1991 averaged over 50 casts max 2166 min 1789

at 1000 spellpower average is 2336 max is 2515 min 2147

at 2000 spellpower average is 3033 max is 3226 min is 2888

and lastly at 2500 spellpower average is 3410 max is 3584 min is 3225


It appears to be the same.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 03/27/09, 8:31 PM   #1031
Malathar
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warlock
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by Hidden View Post
The patch note says "Chaos Bolt: Damage increased approximately 15%.".
The base damage increase of 15% has of course been noticed earlier but to match the patch notes, you'd need to have a 15% coefficient increase as well, otherwise they'd have explicitely stated "Base damage increased by approximately 15%.".
This would also be logical as currently deep destro even without taking Replenishment is quite a bit behind the better specs.

Edit: Has anyone actually tested if there was a coefficient change? Sadly I can't test it because I had to copy my DK onto multiple servers leaving no copies for my Warlock.
Coefficients are set by cast time. The only way they could raise the coefficient without raising the cast time is through another talent. Which they would have stated a chance to that talent, rather than state the damage was increased by 15%.

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Old 03/27/09, 10:04 PM   #1032
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Malathar View Post
Coefficients are set by cast time. The only way they could raise the coefficient without raising the cast time is through another talent. Which they would have stated a chance to that talent, rather than state the damage was increased by 15%.
Actually Arcane Barrage, the 51 points Arcane instant cast, initially had a way higher coefficient than other instants so it'd be totally possible for Blizzard to do the same for Chaos Bolt.
Edit: Just checked it, pre-nerf ABar had a coefficient of 85.7% - that of a 3.0 seconds cast - and is now at something around 65% - that's still way higher than other instants.

But anyway, seems like Blizzard really only changed the base damage, thanks for testing it though.

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Old 03/27/09, 11:39 PM   #1033
Bergtau
Von Kaiser
 
Bergtau's Avatar
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Blade's Edge
I just noticed that the +% damage bonuses on the Spellstone and Firestone don't work with Master Conjuror anymore. I saw nothing about it in any of the patch notes. Am I missing something, or is this a ninja nerf?

Oh, also the proc on the Firestone.

Last edited by Bergtau : 03/27/09 at 11:47 PM.

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Old 03/28/09, 12:04 AM   #1034
Akj
Piston Honda
 
Orc Warlock
 
Suramar
Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
I just noticed that the +% damage bonuses on the Spellstone and Firestone don't work with Master Conjuror anymore. I saw nothing about it in any of the patch notes. Am I missing something, or is this a ninja nerf?

Oh, also the proc on the Firestone.
Master Conjuror was only supposed to increase the combat ratings and not the +% damage bonus so it's more of a bug fix than a ninja nerf.


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Old 03/28/09, 12:16 AM   #1035
Althor
Great Tiger
 
Troll Priest
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
I just noticed that the +% damage bonuses on the Spellstone and Firestone don't work with Master Conjuror anymore. I saw nothing about it in any of the patch notes. Am I missing something, or is this a ninja nerf?
I've updated SimulationCraft removing the boost to +% damage bonuses on the stones from Master Conjuror.

Also changed those profiles using Firestones to use Spellstones instead.

I'm not enough of a Warlock expert to know if this change justifies removing points out of Master Conjuror and putting them in a better talent.

Last edited by Althor : 03/28/09 at 1:03 AM.

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