SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 76

Fecys · 09/02/09, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by Orgath

As you can see from the simcraft logs, even with GoLT and ISL, you still need to Lifetap more for mana than you'd need to just keep the buff up.

So you say that even whit ISL I need to lifetap more then once every 40 sec? I find that hard to believe, because I got ISL specced and I hardly lifetap, atleast way less then once every 40sec.

FATALDDAMAGE · 09/03/09, 1:29 AM

I keep missing, to the tune of about 1% (all via Simcraft, see below). I'm at 13% from gear, so with the Boomkin buff and the Draenei buff I should be capped. The only thing I can think of is that the Draenei hit buff isn't up because I don't see it anywhere below. Is that the issue? If so, do I add it under

Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/divine_spirit/fel_armor/fortitude/mark_of_the_wild

just add "/heroic_presence" or something?

Thanks.

DPS Ranking:
   7931 100.0%  Raid
   7935  100.0%  Fataldamage

Player=Fataldamage (destruction)  DPS=7935.5 (Error=+/-2.7 Range=+/-691)  DPR=24.5  RS=324.2/265.1  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13755658
  Race: human
  Core Stats:  strength=59(0)  agility=67(0)  stamina=1104(943)  intellect=1030(871)  spirit=698(513)  health=18349  mana=19481
  Spell Stats:  power=2546(2546)  hit=13.08%(343)  crit=19.51%(396)  penetration=0(0)  haste=13.66%(448)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=49(0)  hit=10.46%(343)  crit=12.57%(396)  expertise=0.00%(0)  penetration=0.00%(0)  haste=13.66%(448)
  Defense Stats:  armor=2111(1977)
  Glyphs: conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap/curse_of_exhaustion/drain_soul/unending_breath
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
    life_tap,buff_refresh=1/use_item,name=scale_of_fates/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80/immolate
    conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
    corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1/life_tap
  Actions:
    chaos_bolt     Count= 20.3|14.9sec  DPE= 11876|10%  DPET=  8571  DPR=  49.1  pDPS= 803  Miss=0.9%  Hit=7654  Crit=16000|18946|51.4%
    conflagrate    Count= 27.6|10.9sec  DPE= 11530|13%  DPET=  9204  DPR=  20.8  pDPS=1060  Miss=0.9%  Hit=6742  Crit=14093|16728|66.0%
    curse_of_doom  Count=  4.1|60.2sec  DPE= 16786| 3%  DPET= 13224  DPR=  29.0  pDPS= 227  Miss=0.5%  TickCount=4  Tick=16942
    immolate       Count= 19.2|15.9sec  DPE= 12867|10%  DPET= 11899  DPR=  21.8  pDPS= 823  Miss=0.2%  Hit=2559  Crit= 5343| 6316|48.6%  TickCount=92  Tick=1868
    incinerate     Count=130.7| 2.3sec  DPE=  9982|55%  DPET=  6483  DPR=  20.6  pDPS=4349  Miss=0.9%  Hit=6287  Crit=13134|15888|54.8%
   imp  (DPS=673.4)
    fire_bolt      Count=161.3| 1.9sec  DPE=  1249| 8%  DPET=   673  DPR=   6.9  pDPS= 672  Miss=0.9%  Hit=1140  Crit= 1711| 1881|20.9%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/divine_spirit/fel_armor/fortitude/mark_of_the_wild
  Dynamic Buffs:
    backdraft             : start=27.3  refresh=0.0    interval= 11.0|11.0   uptime=46%  benefit=43%
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    dying_curse           : start=5.9   refresh=0.0    interval= 54.1|54.1   uptime=19%  trigger=15%
    empowered_imp         : start=33.2  refresh=0.4    interval=  8.8|8.7    uptime=10%  benefit=17%
    life_tap_glyph        : start=7.8   refresh=0.3    interval= 40.8|40.4   uptime=98%  benefit=98%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.4|63.4   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    pyroclasm             : start=18.2  refresh=0.0    interval= 16.3|16.3   uptime=60%  benefit=48%
    scale_of_fates        : start=3.0   refresh=0.0    interval=121.9|121.9  uptime=20%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : replenishment                 
  Procs:
     70.5 |   4.21sec : judgement_of_wisdom
      8.0 |  40.37sec : life_tap
  Gains:
     6516.8 : blessing_of_wisdom 
    22833.1 : initial_mana       
     5437.5 : judgement_of_wisdom
    29666.4 : life_tap             (overflow=12.5%)
    13626.5 : replenishment      
    24238.0 : soul_leech         

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: abominations_might/blood_frenzy/curse_of_elements/earth_and_moon/elemental_oath
  Constant: faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration/flametongue_totem/hunters_mark
  Constant: improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin/improved_scorch/improved_shadow_bolt
  Constant: leader_of_the_pack/mangle/misery/moonkin/rampage/sanctified_retribution
  Constant: strength_of_earth/swift_retribution/totem_of_wrath/totem_of_wrath_debuff/trauma
  Constant: trueshot/unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/winters_chill/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 33542601
  MaxEventQueue = 21
  TargetHealth  = 2374397
  SimSeconds    = 6000957
  CpuSeconds    = 235.141
  SpeedUp       = 25521

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000300 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000

damage per execute</i></li>
 <li><b>DPET=Num:</b> <i>Num</i> is the <i>damage per execute</i> divided by the <i>time to execute</i> (this value includes GCD costs and Lag in the calculation of <i>time to execute</i>)</li>
 <li><b>Hit=Num:</b> <i>Num</i> is the average damage per non-crit hit</li>
 <li><b>Crit=Num1|Num2|Pct:</b> <i>Num1</i> is average crit damage, <i>Num2</i> is the max crit damage, and <i>Pct</i> is the percentage of crits <i>per execute</i> (not <i>per hit</i>)</li>
 <li><b>Tick=Num:</b> <i>Num</i> is the average tick of damage for the <i>damage over time</i> portion of actions</li>
 <li><b>Up-Time:</b> This is <i>not</i> the percentage of time the buff/debuff is present, but rather the ratio of <i>actions it affects</i> over <i>total number of actions it could affect</i>.  If spell S is cast 10 times and buff B is present for 3 of those casts, then buff B has an up-time of 30%.</li>
 <li><b>Waiting</b>: This is percentage of total time not doing anything (except auto-attack in the case of physical dps classes).  This can occur because the player is resource constrained (Mana, Energy, Rage) or cooldown constrained (as in the case of Enhancement Shaman).</li>
</ul>
<pre>

DPS Ranking:
   7931 100.0%  Raid
   7935  100.0%  Fataldamage

Player=Fataldamage (destruction)  DPS=7935.5 (Error=+/-2.7 Range=+/-691)  DPR=24.5  RS=324.2/265.1  (mana)
  Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13755658
  Race: human
  Core Stats:  strength=59(0)  agility=67(0)  stamina=1104(943)  intellect=1030(871)  spirit=698(513)  health=18349  mana=19481
  Spell Stats:  power=2546(2546)  hit=13.08%(343)  crit=19.51%(396)  penetration=0(0)  haste=13.66%(448)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=49(0)  hit=10.46%(343)  crit=12.57%(396)  expertise=0.00%(0)  penetration=0.00%(0)  haste=13.66%(448)
  Defense Stats:  armor=2111(1977)
  Glyphs: conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap/curse_of_exhaustion/drain_soul/unending_breath
  Priorities:
    flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp
    life_tap,buff_refresh=1/use_item,name=scale_of_fates/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80/immolate
    conflagrate/chaos_bolt/incinerate/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
    corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1/life_tap
  Actions:
    chaos_bolt     Count= 20.3|14.9sec  DPE= 11876|10%  DPET=  8571  DPR=  49.1  pDPS= 803  Miss=0.9%  Hit=7654  Crit=16000|18946|51.4%
    conflagrate    Count= 27.6|10.9sec  DPE= 11530|13%  DPET=  9204  DPR=  20.8  pDPS=1060  Miss=0.9%  Hit=6742  Crit=14093|16728|66.0%
    curse_of_doom  Count=  4.1|60.2sec  DPE= 16786| 3%  DPET= 13224  DPR=  29.0  pDPS= 227  Miss=0.5%  TickCount=4  Tick=16942
    immolate       Count= 19.2|15.9sec  DPE= 12867|10%  DPET= 11899  DPR=  21.8  pDPS= 823  Miss=0.2%  Hit=2559  Crit= 5343| 6316|48.6%  TickCount=92  Tick=1868
    incinerate     Count=130.7| 2.3sec  DPE=  9982|55%  DPET=  6483  DPR=  20.6  pDPS=4349  Miss=0.9%  Hit=6287  Crit=13134|15888|54.8%
   imp  (DPS=673.4)
    fire_bolt      Count=161.3| 1.9sec  DPE=  1249| 8%  DPET=   673  DPR=   6.9  pDPS= 672  Miss=0.9%  Hit=1140  Crit= 1711| 1881|20.9%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/divine_spirit/fel_armor/fortitude/mark_of_the_wild
  Dynamic Buffs:
    backdraft             : start=27.3  refresh=0.0    interval= 11.0|11.0   uptime=46%  benefit=43%
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    dying_curse           : start=5.9   refresh=0.0    interval= 54.1|54.1   uptime=19%  trigger=15%
    empowered_imp         : start=33.2  refresh=0.4    interval=  8.8|8.7    uptime=10%  benefit=17%
    life_tap_glyph        : start=7.8   refresh=0.3    interval= 40.8|40.4   uptime=98%  benefit=98%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.4|63.4   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    pyroclasm             : start=18.2  refresh=0.0    interval= 16.3|16.3   uptime=60%  benefit=48%
    scale_of_fates        : start=3.0   refresh=0.0    interval=121.9|121.9  uptime=20%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : replenishment                 
  Procs:
     70.5 |   4.21sec : judgement_of_wisdom
      8.0 |  40.37sec : life_tap
  Gains:
     6516.8 : blessing_of_wisdom 
    22833.1 : initial_mana       
     5437.5 : judgement_of_wisdom
    29666.4 : life_tap             (overflow=12.5%)
    13626.5 : replenishment      
    24238.0 : soul_leech         

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: abominations_might/blood_frenzy/curse_of_elements/earth_and_moon/elemental_oath
  Constant: faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration/flametongue_totem/hunters_mark
  Constant: improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin/improved_scorch/improved_shadow_bolt
  Constant: leader_of_the_pack/mangle/misery/moonkin/rampage/sanctified_retribution
  Constant: strength_of_earth/swift_retribution/totem_of_wrath/totem_of_wrath_debuff/trauma
  Constant: trueshot/unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/winters_chill/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 33542601
  MaxEventQueue = 21
  TargetHealth  = 2374397
  SimSeconds    = 6000957
  CpuSeconds    = 235.141
  SpeedUp       = 25521

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=1.000300 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000

</pre>
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Pyralissa · 09/03/09, 3:48 AM

Modify your 'global' files, heroic presence is defaulted to zero, switch it to 1 and it will be active in all your calculations.

FATALDDAMAGE · 09/03/09, 4:50 AM

Originally Posted by Pyralissa

Modify your 'global' files, heroic presence is defaulted to zero, switch it to 1 and it will be active in all your calculations.

I tried looking through the simcraft folder and couldn't find exactly where this setting is... any idea which file it would be in?

Thanks for your help.

feroz123 · 09/03/09, 7:40 AM

hello everyone, I was just wondering if anyone has found a softcap for haste for 13/58 locks, using the glyphs (lifetap,incin, conflag) assuming standard 25 man raid buffs?
I've run a couple of simulations, but as of yet have been unable to find a reliable number. It would seem that in the 550-600 haste rating range there is a drop off from benefits of haste, but I haven't been able to pin it down to an exact figure.

Madlax · 09/03/09, 7:46 AM

Regarding T9 gear - while I lack the time to devour all possibly combinations at the moment, I´ll add a few ideas to build the set on:
Belt: Belt of the Tenebrous Mist - Items - Sigrie
Feet: Boots of the Icy Floe - Items - Sigrie or
Feet: Boots of the Mourning Widow - Items - Sigrie (case spirit goes above haste)
Wrist: Armbands of the Ashen Saint - Items - Sigrie
Back: Bolvar's Devotion - Items - Sigrie
Neck: Cry of the Val'kyr - Items - Sigrie
Offhand: Chalice of Benedictus - Items - Sigrie (hit/haste)
Offhand: Mystifying Charm - Items - Sigrie (spirit/crit)

Orgath · 09/03/09, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by Fecys

So you say that even whit ISL I need to lifetap more then once every 40 sec? I find that hard to believe, because I got ISL specced and I hardly lifetap, atleast way less then once every 40sec.

Simcraft Mana-Timeline proves your believe wrong.

Cvarto · 09/03/09, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Fecys

The simcraft from the 0/13/58 build uses glyph of lifetap, but is it beneficial to have both ISL leech AND glyph of lifetap?

To me it seems that you dont life tap as much whit ISL which makes glyph of lifetap pretty bad, but if you DO lifetap to keep the buff up, is ISL necassary? Isnt it better to just put te points in supression so you can take less hit?

Just make sure that you keep in mind the usefulness of Destructive Reach. The extra 10% range is extremely beneficial in many circumstances; speccing into this, however, involves taking at least one point out of ISL.

Ios · 09/03/09, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fecys

So you say that even whit ISL I need to lifetap more then once every 40 sec? I find that hard to believe, because I got ISL specced and I hardly lifetap, atleast way less then once every 40sec.

While you won't need to lifetap because you're out of mana every forty seconds, lifetapping every forty seconds does replenish mana equal to the value of lifetap. By the end of a long fight, I'm generally oom, but for the duration of that fight I've been lifetapping every forty seconds, and seeing benefit from doing so.

Warlocomotif · 09/03/09, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Cvarto

Just make sure that you keep in mind the usefulness of Destructive Reach. The extra 10% range is extremely beneficial in many circumstances; speccing into this, however, involves taking at least one point out of ISL.

It involved taking a point out of Backlash, which is a far smaller DPS gain than ISL.

Cvarto · 09/03/09, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

It involved taking a point out of Backlash, which is a far smaller DPS gain than ISL.

Could it be argued that the extra DPS up-time is in fact a bigger increase in DPS (in ToC - where there's plenty of movement) than the one point in Backlash?

Warlocomotif · 09/03/09, 2:21 PM

In terms of DPS, 2 points in improved soul leech provides more than 3 points in suppression and extra 2 points in backlash. No you can not argue that 1 of those 2 points in ISL is worse than a point in backlash, the difference between the 2 is too significant.

If you feel that you move a lot and don't really need ISL, spec 3/13/55- otherwise ISL > Backlash.

Cvarto · 09/03/09, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Warlocomotif

In terms of DPS, 2 points in improved soul leech provides more than 3 points in suppression and extra 2 points in backlash. No you can not argue that 1 of those 2 points in ISL is worse than a point in backlash, the difference between the 2 is too significant.

If you feel that you move a lot and don't really need ISL, spec 3/13/55- otherwise ISL > Backlash.

Hmm, sorry. I didn't make myself clear. Could it be argued that 1 point in destructive reach is more valuable than 1 point in backlash?

Mordekhuul · 09/03/09, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cvarto

Hmm, sorry. I didn't make myself clear. Could it be argued that 1 point in destructive reach is more valuable than 1 point in backlash?

Any such argument will need to take into consideration that regardless of movement required in the fight, you will have to get within 30 yard range every 60 seconds to drop CoD anyway.

Warlocomotif · 09/03/09, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Cvarto

Hmm, sorry. I didn't make myself clear. Could it be argued that 1 point in destructive reach is more valuable than 1 point in backlash?

Yes the argument could definitely be made, both for range sake (but keep CoD in mind), and also for threat's sake. The benefit however would be subjective and would not really be measurable in any way. I'm demo, and I for one would love to have a little bit more range for snobolds on Northrend beasts (for example).

Althor · 09/04/09, 2:22 AM

Originally Posted by FATALDDAMAGE

I tried looking through the simcraft folder and couldn't find exactly where this setting is... any idea which file it would be in?

Thanks for your help.

The variable you're looking for is: overrides.heroic_presence
Set it to 1 to turn on the buff or 0 (the default) to turn it off.

What's more, if your race happens to be Draenei it will automatically be turned on.

It will also be turned on if you're in a party with a Draenei.
e.g. something like:

#!simcraft

Globals_T8.simcraft
optimal_raid=1

fataldamage.simcraft name=fataldamage
draenei_profile.simcraft name=draenei_player

party=draenei_player/fataldamage

If you wish to use the override then either add overrides.heroic_presence=1 to your .simcraft file or add it on the command line.

Althor · 09/04/09, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by sephx

I was running some comparison's in our guild and sifting through the raw data text and I noticed that if you import your wowhead profile, it isnt correctly importing everything. (gear, etc.)

also without the raid it is showing everyone as having 0 hit rating, etc.

if i have the raid optimization on does it only include the armor bonuses with the raid build?

Below is the output:

Simulationcraft Results

Also I am a different spec than they are (i'm xtera). I am specced into suppression and according to this I only have 14.95% hr, is it properly taking into account that I have the extra 3%.

do I need to adjust the settings for 25 man raids so that the cap is properly raised to 17% for 100% hit rating. because according to this 14% hr in raid is enough without suppression.

I just imported your current armory with the command:

simcraft.exe armory=us,Kalecgos,Xtera save=xtera.simcraft save_profiles=1

I then ran your profile with:

simcraft.exe input=xtera.simcraft output=xtera.txt html=xtera.html optimal_raid=0

The first part of the results was:

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=1000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   6969 100.0%  Raid
   6972  100.0%  Xtera

Player: Xtera blood_elf warlock destruction 80
  DPS: 6972.3  Error=8.3  Range=439  DPR=21.6  RPS=322.8/284.4  (mana)
  Origin: http://us.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kalecgos&n=Xtera
  Core Stats:  strength=64(8)  agility=77(8)  stamina=1128(939)  intellect=1047(864)  spirit=518(353)  health=18596  mana=19743
  Spell Stats:  power=2339(2339)  hit=13.99%(367)  crit=21.51%(529)  penetration=0(0)  haste=13.63%(447)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=54(0)  hit=11.19%(367)  crit=15.67%(529)  expertise=0.00%(0)  penetration=0.00%(0)  haste=13.63%(447)
  Defense Stats:  armor=2123(1969)  blockv=0(0)
  Glyphs: life_tap/unending_breath/drain_soul/conflagrate/curse_of_exhausion/incinerate
  Actions:
    chaos_bolt     Count= 19.8|15.3sec  DPE= 10726|10%  DPET=  7674  DPR=  44.3  pDPS= 706  Miss=0.0%  Hit=6764  Crit=13525|13573|58.6%
    conflagrate    Count= 27.2|11.1sec  DPE= 10054|13%  DPET=  7999  DPR=  18.1  pDPS= 911  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5991  Crit=11982|12001|67.8%
    curse_of_doom  Count=  4.0|61.0sec  DPE= 15514| 3%  DPET= 11638  DPR=  28.6  pDPS= 207  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=4  Tick=15514
    immolate       Count= 19.4|15.7sec  DPE= 11285|10%  DPET= 10026  DPR=  19.2  pDPS= 731  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2254  Crit= 4508| 4516|55.1%  TickCount=94  Tick=1606
    incinerate     Count=130.6| 2.3sec  DPE=  8623|54%  DPET=  5605  DPR=  17.8  pDPS=3755  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5432  Crit=10865|10881|58.7%
   imp  (DPS=663.9)
    fire_bolt      Count=161.3| 1.9sec  DPE=  1231| 9%  DPET=   664  DPR=   6.8  pDPS= 662  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1067  Crit= 1600| 1601|30.8%

Your spell stats that simcraft has recorded are:
Spell Stats: power=2339(2339) hit=13.99%(367) crit=21.51%(529) penetration=0(0) haste=13.63%(447) mp5=0

Your core stats are:
Core Stats: strength=64(8) agility=77(8) stamina=1128(939) intellect=1047(864) spirit=518(353) health=18596 mana=19743

I checked your page on the wowarmory.
It says you have: 64str, 77agi, 1127sta, 1047int, 518spi, 2339sp, 367 hit rating, 529 crit rating, 447 haste rating, 0mp5 while casting, 0 spell pen, 18802 health, 19859 mana.

That's a difference of 1 stamina, 206 health, 116 mana. The stamina is likely just a rounding error. The health and mana differences are probably talent related and I'll look into fixing it.

It correctly shows you as having 13.99% hit from gear and given that you have Suppression you will be hit capped.

The goal of the Spell Stats and Core Stats etc. on the SimCraft results is to pretty closely match what you will see in game without any buffs on (or close to what you'd see on the Armory if the Armory wasn't buggy with a couple of things).

There are some talents that will increase your paper doll stats and others that don't increase the paper doll value. It would appear from looking at the wowarmory that Suppression is one that doesn't show up on the Armory and thus isn't going to show up either under your Spell Stats in the SimCraft results.

Mordekhuul · 09/04/09, 4:28 PM

I find something odd when comparing Leulier's spreadsheet to my simcraft results for my 3/13/55 lock.

First, in terms of expected DPS in a raid-buffed situation, they are remarkably similar. Leulier has me at 6916 DPS and Simcraft has me at 6836 DPS.

Where I find wild discrepencies, however, is in their calculation of stat rankings.

Leulier Next Stat Rankings:
Int=1979 Spi=2043 SP=4041 Hit=1952 Crit=2041 Haste=2061

Simcraft Scale Factors:
Int=0.86 Spi=1.53 SP=1.42 Hit=2.63 Crit=0.74 Haste=1.19

These are the stats that each product suggests be used in, for example, wowhead rankings. Is there a known reason for trusting one over another when looking at potential upgrades?

Obviously, the stronger method of comparing an item to an existing item is to swap to that item in Leulier and/or Simcraft and compare the revised DPS prediction/simulation to the prior one. However, scale factors can be useful as an on the fly predictor (in-game comparison when something unplanned drops) or in looking over large numbers of potential upgrades to zero in on some of the likely candidates you might be seeing soon.

Althor · 09/04/09, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mordekhuul

I find something odd when comparing Leulier's spreadsheet to my simcraft results for my 3/13/55 lock.

First, in terms of expected DPS in a raid-buffed situation, they are remarkably similar. Leulier has me at 6916 DPS and Simcraft has me at 6836 DPS.

Where I find wild discrepencies, however, is in their calculation of stat rankings.

Leulier Next Stat Rankings:
Int=1979 Spi=2043 SP=4041 Hit=1952 Crit=2041 Haste=2061

Simcraft Scale Factors:
Int=0.86 Spi=1.53 SP=1.42 Hit=2.63 Crit=0.74 Haste=1.19

These are the stats that each product suggests be used in, for example, wowhead rankings. Is there a known reason for trusting one over another when looking at potential upgrades?

Obviously, the stronger method of comparing an item to an existing item is to swap to that item in Leulier and/or Simcraft and compare the revised DPS prediction/simulation to the prior one. However, scale factors can be useful as an on the fly predictor (in-game comparison when something unplanned drops) or in looking over large numbers of potential upgrades to zero in on some of the likely candidates you might be seeing soon.

When I run your armory profile through SimCraft with 10000 iterations I get:

Scale Factors:
Mordekhuul Sta=0.00 Int=0.45 Spi=1.14 SP=1.45 Hit=2.94 Crit=0.76 Haste=1.09 Lag=0.00

The biggest difference there being Spirit which you had as 1.53 but I had as 1.14.

If we normalise both SimCraft's and Leulier's values to Spell Power:

SimCraft (using my run): Int=0.31, Spi=0.79, SP=1.00, Hit=2.03, Crit=0.52, Haste=0.75
Leulier:                 Int=0.49, Spi=0.51, SP=1.00, Hit=0.48, Crit=0.51, Haste=0.51

About the only things they appear to agree upon is Crit.

Leulier's value for Hit especially is telling. It's obviously not measuring the same thing that SimCraft is. SimCraft subtracts a given amount of hit rating and compares the DPS with the less hit rating with the current gear level. This is because it's assumed that you're going to be pretty much hit-capped anyway and thus having a positive delta stat value would be pointless. At a guess, Leulier's doesn't do the same thing as SimCraft here.

Spirit can be trivially proved to be worth more than the 0.51 given by Leulier scale factors.
Life-tapping to keep up the Glyph of Life-Tap buff as well as using Fel Armor with Demonic Aegis talent and having BoK gives a straight up spirit -> spellpower value of (0.2 + 0.3 * 1.3) * 1.1 = 0.65.

When I run your profile through SimCraft's scale factor generation with infinite_mana=1 I get:
Mordekhuul Sta=0.00 Int=0.28 Spi=0.92 SP=1.44 Hit=2.99 Crit=0.77 Haste=1.16 Lag=0.00

Normalising Spirit to Spellpower that's 0.92/1.44 == 0.64. Which is very close to the theoretical maximum of 0.65.

The 0.79 value from a normal scale factor test just reflects the fewer number of Lifetap's etc. needed to be cast for mana regen purposes rather than just keeping up the Glyph's buff.

So for Spirit at least, SimCraft's value seems a lot more accurate than Leulier's.

*edit* The DPS value I got for you on the scale test was 6908 DPS. That's using Blood Fury as well.

Mordekhuul · 09/04/09, 11:30 PM

Thank you Althor. Is there something about running Simcraft that I am doing incorrectly to get the ridiculously high spirit valuation?

Here is my batch file:

simcraft.exe max_time=300 input=mordekhuul.simcraft output=mordekhuul.txt html=mordekhuul.html optimal_raid=1 iterations=1000 threads=2

This is having downloaded the latest Simcraft and am using this one to generate my char file:

simcraft.exe armory=US,Terenas,Mordekhuul save=mordekhuul.simcraft save_profiles=1

Warlocomotif · 09/04/09, 11:34 PM

1000 iterations is not really enougb to generate 'accurate' scale factors.

Althor · 09/04/09, 11:37 PM

As mentioned, to calculate scale factors, you should probably use at a minimum 10000 iterations.

Otherwise, what you have is correct.

Mordekhuul · 09/05/09, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Althor

As mentioned, to calculate scale factors, you should probably use at a minimum 10000 iterations.

Otherwise, what you have is correct.

How exactly did you run the sim on my toon? I upped it to 10000 iterations and still got a spirit valuation of 1.53 (vs. spell power valued at 1.42).

I was wrong earlier when I posted the string I had used to generate the scales. What I actually did was drop my mordekhuul.simcraft file onto SCALE_FACTORS.BAT, which looks like this:

cd /d "%~d1%~p1"
simcraft.exe max_time=300 optimal_raid=1 input=%~n1%~x1 output=%~n1.txt html=%~n1.html calculate_scale_factors=1 smooth_scale_factors=1 iterations=10000 threads=2
notepad %~n1.txt

The mordekhuul.simcraft file, I generated using:

simcraft.exe armory=US,Terenas,Mordekhuul save=mordekhuul.simcraft save_profiles=1

Which turned out this file:

#!simcraft

warlock=Mordekhuul
origin=http://US.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&n=Mordekhuul
level=80
race=orc
professions=jewelcrafting=424/tailoring=443
talents=http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=9&tal=030000000000000000000000000003220030003000000000000000005203205220331051035031351
glyphs=conflagrate/kilrogg/drain_soul/life_tap/unending_breath/incinerate
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm
actions+=/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak
actions+=/fire_stone
actions+=/fel_armor
actions+=/summon_pet,imp
actions+=/life_tap,buff_refresh=1
actions+=/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80
actions+=/immolate
actions+=/conflagrate
actions+=/chaos_bolt
actions+=/incinerate
actions+=/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1
actions+=/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
actions+=/curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1
actions+=/shadowfury,moving=1
actions+=/life_tap
head=collar_of_the_wyrmhunter,stats=256armor_51hit_68haste_114sp_85sta_87int,gems=chaotic_skyflare_12sp_10spi_9sp,enchant=30sp_20crit
neck=brilliant_hailstone_amulet,stats=21hit_36crit_53sp_38sta_34int,gems=10haste_12sp_4hit
shoulders=mantle_of_the_preserver,stats=233armor_57crit_91sp_72sta_56int_46spi,enchant=24sp_15crit
chest=valorous_plagueheart_robe,stats=308armor_51hit_99sp_99sta_67int_66spi,gems=23sp_10haste_12sp_6spi,enchant=15spi
waist=conductive_cord,stats=175armor_41crit_93sp_75sta_54int_60spi,gems=23sp
legs=guldans_leggings_of_triumph,stats=290armor_90crit_74haste_140sp_103sta_103int,gems=39sp_10haste_12sp_7sp,enchant=50sp_20spi
feet=deadly_gladiators_treads_of_dominance,stats=212armor_42crit_78sp_85sta_37int,gems=39sp,enchant=15sta
wrists=bindings_of_the_ashen_saint,stats=145armor_50haste_89sp_58sta_58int_50spi,enchant=30sp
hands=valorous_deathbringer_gloves,stats=194armor_59hit_92sp_69sta_57int_25spi,gems=12sp_10spi_4crit,enchant=28sp
finger1=emerald_signet_ring,stats=34hit_70sp_38sta_48int_43spi
finger2=titanium_spellshock_ring,stats=42crit_49sp_48sta_33int,gems=23sp_5sp
trinket1=abyssal_rune,stats=84haste,equip=onspellhit_590sp_25%_10dur_45cd
trinket2=titanforged_rune_of_audacity,stats=111sp
back=disguise_of_the_kumiho,stats=154armor_41haste_65sp_48sta_38int_37spi,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
main_hand=spectral_kris,stats=36crit_46haste_487sp_30sta_30int,gems=23sp,enchant=50sp,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_94.1dps
off_hand=leviathan_fueling_manual,stats=41hit_75sp_49sta_46int_42spi
ranged=brimstone_igniter,stats=28hit_50sp_32sta_32int_28spi
tabard=tabard_of_the_kirin_tor
# Gear Summary
# gear_stamina=944
# gear_intellect=780
# gear_spirit=459
# gear_spell_power=2219
# gear_hit_rating=289
# gear_crit_rating=404
# gear_haste_rating=393
# gear_armor=1967
# meta_gem=chaotic_skyflare
# back=disguise_of_the_kumiho,enchant=lightweave_embroidery
# main_hand=spectral_kris,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_94.1dps

My results file looked like this:

SimulationCraft for World of Warcraft build 3.2.0 ( iterations=10000, max_time=300, optimal_raid=1, smooth_rng=0, spell_crit_suppression=0 )

DPS Ranking:
   6834 100.0%  Raid
   6837  100.0%  Mordekhuul

Player=Mordekhuul (destruction)  DPS=6837.1 (Error=+/-3.3 Range=+/-675)  DPR=22.3  RS=307.0/243.2  (mana)
  Origin: http://US.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Terenas&n=Mordekhuul
  Race: orc
  Core Stats:  strength=62(0)  agility=64(0)  stamina=1107(944)  intellect=936(780)  spirit=628(459)  health=18380  mana=18028
  Spell Stats:  power=2219(2219)  hit=11.02%(289)  crit=19.12%(404)  penetration=0(0)  haste=11.99%(393)  mp5=0
  Attack Stats  power=52(0)  hit=8.81%(289)  crit=12.69%(404)  expertise=0.00%(0)  penetration=0.00%(0)  haste=11.99%(393)
  Defense Stats:  armor=2095(1967)
  Glyphs: conflagrate/kilrogg/drain_soul/life_tap/unending_breath/incinerate
  Actions:
    chaos_bolt     Count= 20.0|15.1sec  DPE= 11131|11%  DPET=  7801  DPR=  46.0  pDPS= 743  Miss=0.0%  Hit=7155  Crit=14950|17393|51.0%
    conflagrate    Count= 26.7|11.3sec  DPE=  9694|13%  DPET=  7529  DPR=  17.5  pDPS= 863  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5672  Crit=11860|13861|65.0%
    curse_of_doom  Count=  4.0|60.7sec  DPE= 16009| 3%  DPET= 11795  DPR=  29.5  pDPS= 214  Miss=0.0%  TickCount=4  Tick=16009
    immolate       Count= 19.1|16.0sec  DPE= 11107|10%  DPET=  9790  DPR=  18.9  pDPS= 706  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2212  Crit= 4624| 5421|48.9%  TickCount=92  Tick=1591
    incinerate     Count=121.6| 2.4sec  DPE=  9007|53%  DPET=  5670  DPR=  18.6  pDPS=3653  Miss=0.0%  Hit=5768  Crit=12049|14366|51.6%
   imp  (DPS=659.2)
    fire_bolt      Count=161.3| 1.9sec  DPE=  1222|10%  DPET=   659  DPR=   6.8  pDPS= 658  Miss=3.0%  Hit=1141  Crit= 1712| 1858|20.1%
  Constant Buffs: arcane_brilliance/divine_spirit/fel_armor/fortitude/mark_of_the_wild
  Dynamic Buffs:
    abyssal_rune          : start=6.3   refresh=0.0    interval= 50.3|50.3   uptime=21%  trigger=25%
    backdraft             : start=26.7  refresh=0.0    interval= 11.3|11.3   uptime=47%  benefit=44%
    bloodlust             : start=1.0   refresh=0.0    interval=  0.0|0.0    uptime=13%
    empowered_imp         : start=31.6  refresh=0.9    interval=  9.2|9.0    uptime=11%  benefit=17%
    life_tap_glyph        : start=4.0   refresh=9.2    interval= 40.2|23.8   uptime=100%  benefit=99%
    lightweave_embroidery : start=5.0   refresh=0.0    interval= 63.5|63.5   uptime=25%  trigger=35%
    pyroclasm             : start=17.4  refresh=0.0    interval= 17.0|17.0   uptime=57%  benefit=45%
  Up-Times:
    100.0% : replenishment                 
  Procs:
     69.3 |   4.28sec : judgement_of_wisdom
     13.2 |  23.75sec : life_tap
  Gains:
     6517.6 : blessing_of_wisdom 
    21241.8 : initial_mana       
     5347.9 : judgement_of_wisdom
    48375.9 : life_tap             (overflow=7.6%)
    12678.1 : replenishment      
  Scale Factors:
    Weights :  Sta=0.00  Int=0.86  Spi=1.53  SP=1.42  Hit=2.63  Crit=0.74  Haste=1.19
    Wowhead : http://www.wowhead.com/?items&filter=ub=9;gm=4;gb=1;wt=23:24:123:119:96:103;wtv=0.86:1.53:1.42:2.63:0.74:1.19;

Auras and De-Buffs:
  Constant: abominations_might/blood_frenzy/curse_of_elements/earth_and_moon/elemental_oath
  Constant: faerie_fire/ferocious_inspiration/flametongue_totem/hunters_mark
  Constant: improved_faerie_fire/improved_moonkin/improved_scorch/improved_shadow_bolt
  Constant: leader_of_the_pack/mangle/misery/moonkin/rampage/sanctified_retribution
  Constant: strength_of_earth/swift_retribution/totem_of_wrath/totem_of_wrath_debuff/trauma
  Constant: trueshot/unleashed_rage/windfury_totem/winters_chill/wrath_of_air
  Dynamic:

Waiting:
    All players active 100% of the time.

Baseline Performance:
  TotalEvents   = 16458648
  MaxEventQueue = 20
  TargetHealth  = 2045525
  SimSeconds    = 3000318
  CpuSeconds    = 5.640
  SpeedUp       = 531971

RNG global Actual/Expected Roll=0.999292 Range=1.000000 Gauss=1.000000

Scale Factors:
  Mordekhuul  Sta=0.00  Int=0.86  Spi=1.53  SP=1.42  Hit=2.63  Crit=0.74  Haste=1.19  Lag=0.00

Althor · 09/05/09, 10:30 AM

You're using an older version of SimCraft to what I'm using. I'm running off the latest SVN version.
I can tell this because there's no Blood Fury in your action list, and the latest SimCraft will add Blood Fury to the list if the race is Orc.

It's quite possible that there was a scaling bug fixed too between the versions.

Yeda · 09/05/09, 10:57 AM

It might also be due to smooth_scale_factors=1, since on other post dedmonwakeen said that its not working as intended.

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

I'm afraid I have currently lost my faith in smooth_rng when used to reduce both iteration count and the scale deltas (which is what happens with smooth_scale_factors=1). I would recommend against smooth_scale_factors=1 and instead iterate in the 10k to 20k range when generating scale factors. I'll eventually work on solving the problem because it still has the greatest performance potential of any reasonable alternative..... but my plate is full at the moment.