SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 86

oresteez · 04/23/09, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufola

Simcraft uses two immolation auras per meta. It would be nice if this could be configured with an option. With the default gear, the DPS comes out the same. With lesser gear using Immolation twice per meta comes out in advance.

DPS Ranking:
6953 100.0% Warlock_T8_00_56_15 (39 Immolation ticks)
6954 100.0% Warlock_T8_00_56_15 (30 Immolation ticks)

I'm sorry, I'm just looking for clarification. So based on this quote, does this mean that at the 'default gear level', it's not worth it to even rush in for the second wave of immolation?

Thanks in advance!

hendrata · 04/23/09, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Natasmai

Warlock_T8_00_41_30 intellect=0.28 spirit=0.78 spell_power=1.22 crit_rating=0.67 haste_rating=1.27
Warlock_T8_03_52_16 intellect=0.40 spirit=1.08 spell_power=1.18 crit_rating=0.71 haste_rating=1.27

If this was posted already I am sorry, I scanned thru the last few pages I missed while I was afk for a few days and didnt see anything.

Is there a reason that Haste is actually rated higher than spell power for the demon heavy builds? Also I know these are calculated assuming hit capped, but I was curious what other people use for hit rating on gear when determining which hit rating items they want to use? You still have to apply some number to hit rating to determine which items are the better upgrades, no? Normally I have been using a number just slightly higher than whatever spell power is rated for since spell power is always higher, but now Im not sure what's going on with haste.

Oh and just to be sure, Incinerate is a better glyph than Immolate for 41/30 spec, but not for the Metamorph specs?

I would like to ask the same question, and also, this then begs the question whether 0/41/30 locks should use firestone or spellstone. Haste > Crit, but our main damage comes not from DOTs but from direct damage. My test on the dummy seems to suggest spellstone by a small margin, but is there a data to support this observation?

Scrufola · 04/23/09, 3:54 PM

Originally Posted by oresteez

I'm sorry, I'm just looking for clarification. So based on this quote, does this mean that at the 'default gear level', it's not worth it to even rush in for the second wave of immolation?

Immolation aura has a 30 second cooldown. With the glyph of metamorphosis, metamorphosis has a 36 second duration. You can get one immolation aura and a few ticks of the second off. I was wondering if a few ticks of the second are worth a global cooldown and the mana.

Simcraft calculates that with BiS T7 gear, the dps is the same with and without the second immolation aura.

singingzombies · 04/23/09, 4:22 PM

edited: Further Testing confirms Improved Shadowbolt is likely to be working as intended. 50 Dummy tests are nothing compared to the 1000 iterations of Simulationcraft and I guess one could just have a really really bad night of testing.

trangoul · 04/23/09, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufola

Immolation aura has a 30 second cooldown. With the glyph of metamorphosis, metamorphosis has a 36 second duration. You can get one immolation aura and a few ticks of the second off. I was wondering if a few ticks of the second are worth a global cooldown and the mana.

Simcraft calculates that with BiS T7 gear, the dps is the same with and without the second immolation aura.

I think it takes it into consideration. Look at the damage breakdowns and you will see different amounts of immolation ticks with and without the glyph.

Scrufola · 04/23/09, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by trangoul

I think it takes it into consideration. Look at the damage breakdowns and you will see different amounts of immolation ticks with and without the glyph.

That's correct. But my question was, what if you use the glyph but only use it once.

trangoul · 04/23/09, 4:48 PM

Originally Posted by Scrufola

That's correct. But my question was, what if you use the glyph but only use it once.

Oh, sorry, misunderstood, well i guess depending on haste (i sit around 20%) it could be different, but the math should look something like:

Assuming no haste:
Casting immolation with "6" seconds left you will get at best 5 ticks. Lets say each tick for you is ~ 1300, that means that GCD yielded a 6500 damage cast. Which dependent on gear, (and if you had 0 haste I am assuming) should be one of your highest DPS spells in that situation.

Assuming a raid buffed 20%ish haste:
Immolation with "6" seconds left in meta and each tick at (1/1.2) or .8 seconds will be ~ 7 ticks, which (assuming the still 1300 damage tick) yields 9100 damage cast, which is definitely worth the cast if you are in melee range.

The mana issue I think is a bit moot, as, you should be life tapping every 20 seconds to keep the glyph up, and I have yet to run out of mana while doing this. Also due to the nature of many ulduar fights, I find with the overabundance of run time on most of the fights you have plenty of time to tap while moving making the mana even more insignificant.

Naforce · 04/23/09, 7:17 PM

Is immolate really worth having as 0/40/31 after the nerf? Seeing as Conflagrate now only hits for 70% of immolate, having 110% immolate damage would just end up being 77% Conflagrate damage, not as big of an increase as before. Maybe this has been updated to be included in the simulation already, still how big of a difference is it using incinerate glyph instead of immolate?

Snidelyw · 04/23/09, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by fallenman

Yep you are correct. The 5 normal SB's would account for 5317 * 5 for a total of 26,585. Taking the difference from the 5 crit SB's (64,315), we get 37,730 / 300 = 126dps increase. Still a very substantial gain. I've added this to my original post.

This is using numbers from the OP's simulcraft for Warlock_T8_53_00_18 DPS=7223.9
87.6 SBs
39.3% crit = 34.4268 SBs x 11113 avg crit = 382585.0284
60.7% reg = 53.1732 SBs x 5317 avg hit = 282721.9044
382585.0284 + 282721.9044 = 665306.9328 / 300s = 2217.689776 dps

The OP already includes the 4pc-T8 bonus so I subtracted 5% from the SB crits and got these numbers:

87.6 SBs
34.3% crit = 30.0468 SBs x 11113 avg crit = 333910.0884
65.7% reg = 57.5532 SBs x 5317 avg hit = 306010.3644
333910.0884 + 306010.3644 = 639920.4528 / 300s = 2133.068176 dps

DPS lost by removing the 5% crit bonus is 84.6216. Is my math right?

Natasmai · 04/24/09, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by hendrata

I would like to ask the same question, and also, this then begs the question whether 0/41/30 locks should use firestone or spellstone. Haste > Crit, but our main damage comes not from DOTs but from direct damage. My test on the dummy seems to suggest spellstone by a small margin, but is there a data to support this observation?

Im pretty sure it was already proven that the spellstone is better for direct damage builds. The only thing which would change that is possibly being haste capped and I know I am fairly close to my GCD @ 1s. When I use the spellstone (with the talent) it puts me close to 850 haste rating.

VenomByte · 04/24/09, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Snidelyw

DPS lost by removing the 5% crit bonus is 84.6216. Is my math right?

Correct as far as I can tell.

It makes sense logically too, since we know a 5% crit bonus to *all* spells is worth somewhere in the region of 150dps, (dots & you thread shows 10crit = 6.58dps, and 5% is ~230 crit) therefore when shadow bolt makes up about half of your damage or a little over, you'd expect a 5% crit bonus on it to be worth something in the region of 70-80dps or so.

Edit: Alternatively, if it helps when comparing gear, you could say that the 4pc T8 bonus is worth the same as about 130 spell crit (2.8-2.9% ish)

Snidelyw · 04/24/09, 5:16 PM

What about the 2pc-T8 20% bonus to UA? You can't just divide the Simulcraft UA dps by 120% can you? Because that 20% stacks additively with a bunch of other bonuses rather than act as a flat multiplier to UA.

Pach · 04/25/09, 12:16 PM

Yes, but only until CoA gets it's whole duration or close to. Once you are below 20 or so seconds, drop everything if they fall off

dzikson · 04/25/09, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by Pach

Yes, but only until CoA gets it's whole duration or close to. Once you are below 20 or so seconds, drop everything if they fall off

Hmmm sorry, not sure I get what you're saying.

Arnath · 04/25/09, 8:04 PM

He means to stop casting it once the remaining time in the fight is shorter than the duration of CoA. Obviously you can't know for sure but you can get a feel for it.