SimulationCraft for Warlocks (4.0.3a numbers at 80 and 85) - Page 9

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 6:52 PM

Yeah - currently Simulationcraft models the stones as 1% with or without the talent, though, because I've been going by patch notes. I'm not sure if I should change the code - it seems likely that it's a bug.

Seir · 02/28/09, 7:04 PM

Hmm, my first thought was to wonder if it's a bug because that isn't showing up on the talent tooltip, but it's showing up on the stone tooltip which means it's equally as likely that it's working as intended.

I just logged the ptr to test it with immolate while naked except for my weapon and got 745 w/o stone and 767 w/stone
indicating it's closer to 3%, or it's applying before gear or talents or both.

In any case even with the haste being 240 instead of 180 or the DD being 4% i still don't see it adding more damage then 1 point in FnB+Chaos Bolt

Liania · 02/28/09, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Seir

Hmm, my first thought was to wonder if it's a bug because that isn't showing up on the talent tooltip, but it's showing up on the stone tooltip which means it's equally as likely that it's working as intended.

I just logged the ptr to test it with immolate while naked except for my weapon and got 745 w/o stone and 767 w/stone
indicating it's closer to 3%, or it's applying before gear or talents or both.

In any case even with the haste being 240 instead of 180 or the DD being 4% i still don't see it adding more damage then 2 points in FnB+Chaos Bolt

You dont only get the increased haste/dmg from the stone, you also get 20% more dmg on your imp, which should be a fair increase itself.

Seir · 02/28/09, 7:19 PM

Originally Posted by Liania

You dont only get the increased haste/dmg from the stone, you also get 20% more dmg on your imp, which should be a fair increase itself.

Yeah, but you could go 0/20/51 with chaos bolt also if you chose.

so the contention here is chaos bolt 1 FnB vs. Master Conjuror

Edit: Just taking the 9310 Chaos Bolts off the sim posted in the 1st post and it's being cast every 15 seconds gives chaos bolt a dps of 600 something.

Assuming that firestone would give 10% dps under those circumstances which, i'm pretty sure the 4% DD + the crit doesn't, you'd need to nail 6000 dps w/o chaos bolt to match it.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:27 PM

I just changed the code to let master conjuror give 4% instead of 1%, and 0/22/49 still comes out almost 200 DPS short of 5/13/53.

Naforce · 02/28/09, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

I just changed the code to let master conjuror give 4% instead of 1%, and 0/22/49 still comes out almost 200 DPS short of 5/13/53.

Did you update all the other specs with this new master conjuror effect aswell? Just to see how big change there will be in the numbers.

henslaved · 02/28/09, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

I just changed the code to let master conjuror give 4% instead of 1%, and 0/22/49 still comes out almost 200 DPS short of 5/13/53.

With that change does the Firestone outpace the Spellstone for the leading 41/30 spec?

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:39 PM

Originally Posted by henslaved

With that change does the Firestone outpace the Spellstone for the leading 41/30 spec?

It surprised me, but no, spellstone is still best for all specs.

• Zakalwe · 02/28/09, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by Naforce

Did you update all the other specs with this new master conjuror effect aswell? Just to see how big change there will be in the numbers.

Done. I also fixed the immolation mana cost issue by explicitly telling the meta locks to life tap whenever below 2500 mana.

Naforce · 02/28/09, 7:49 PM

For the 0/56/15 spec, wouldn't it be a good choice to exchange the least dps-increasing glyph for glyph of life tap? yes, you will probably lose personal dps, but instead you will buff the raid further, which in the should lead to a higher raid dps. Which glyph should be exchanged? I think it would be about an additional 15sp to every member of the raid. I also suppose glyphing life tap includes lifetapping every 20 seconds. I'm not sure if it's better for the raid (locks -dps <= raid +dps?), maybe somebody can help?

Edit: GJ so far Zakalwe, really helpful for all locks.

Edit2: Could you also do calculations for all specs with _DG? Since the demospecs probably doesn't gain at all using DG, whilst affli will, I think it should be in your calculations as well as a spec variation.

henslaved · 02/28/09, 8:03 PM

With the changes to Enslave Demon is it actually possible (assuming you're willing to manage it) to keep your Doomguard out indefinitely (assuming you don't die)?

brymortis · 02/28/09, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by henslaved

With the changes to Enslave Demon is it actually possible (assuming you're willing to manage it) to keep your Doomguard out indefinitely (assuming you don't die)?

I think this was answered earlier in this thread or another thread.

Sinj · 02/28/09, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by Teroy

Is there any way to access the current revision so we can run our own numbers. I see on the site it's up to r1599 but only simcraft-r1527-windows.zip is available for download. At least as far as I can see.

Edit.

Found it simulationcraft - Revision 1599: /trunk

Just not in a neat little package but does the trick just fine

I've been trying to find the files myself, thanks.

However, the 'Simcraft.exe' file seems to be missing from that trunk? I hope I'm not 'hand-holding' here, but can someone point me in the direction of it?

Krazen · 02/28/09, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Seir

Yeah, but you could go 0/20/51 with chaos bolt also if you chose.

so the contention here is chaos bolt 1 FnB vs. Master Conjuror

Edit: Just taking the 9310 Chaos Bolts off the sim posted in the 1st post and it's being cast every 15 seconds gives chaos bolt a dps of 600 something.

Assuming that firestone would give 10% dps under those circumstances which, i'm pretty sure the 4% DD + the crit doesn't, you'd need to nail 6000 dps w/o chaos bolt to match it.

All those chaos bolts are replaced with incinerates. It doesn't give you anything near that much dps as a net gain.

ostoles · 02/28/09, 11:06 PM

So, I wanted to see the exact results of the current builds along with a doomguard and succubus+infernal option. I believe a few people have requested this as well. This is with revision 1606 and all other actors mentioned aside from what is provided below is from the base profiles from simcraft repository.

Profiles:

warlock=Warlock_T8_54_00_17_DG
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=551002050000000000000000002350022001023510053500331151000000000000000000000000000
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/spell_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,doomguard
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1/curse_of_agony/corruption/unstable_affliction
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
glyph_haunt=1
glyph_immolate=1
glyph_life_tap=1

warlock=Warlock_T8_54_00_17_INF
level=80
talents=http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=551002050000000000000000002350022001023510053500331151000000000000000000000000000
actions=flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=tender_shoveltusk_steak/spell_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,succubus/inferno,time_to_die<=60
actions+=/haunt,debuff=1/curse_of_agony/corruption/unstable_affliction
actions+=/drain_soul,health_percentage<=25,interrupt=1/immolate/shadow_bolt/life_tap
Caster_T7_Base_Gear.simcraft
glyph_haunt=1
glyph_immolate=1
glyph_life_tap=1

Damage breakdowns:

Player=Warlock_T8_54_00_17_DG  DPS=6511.7 (Error=+/-1.3 Range=+/-498)  DPR=22.5  RPS=288.9/221.1  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=59  agility=61  stamina=1186  intellect=968  spirit=541  health=17995  mana=20231
  Spell Stats:  power=2000  hit=11.1%  crit=18.4%  penetration=0  haste=15.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=737  hit=8.8%  crit=14.1%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=15.2%
  Actions:
    corruption            Count=  1.1|96.9sec  DPE=214861|14%  DPET=150397  DPR=422.6  Miss=0.0%  Tick=2315  CritTick=3578|4764|37.1%
    curse_of_agony        Count= 11.7|23.9sec  DPE=9799| 7%  DPET=7840  DPR=27.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=911
    drain_soul            Count=  7.5| 7.2sec  DPE=36481|16%  DPET=7328  DPR=71.8  Miss=0.0%  Tick=14696
    haunt                 Count= 21.0|13.1sec  DPE=3365| 4%  DPET=2545  DPR= 7.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2748  Crit=4262|5380|40.8%
    immolate              Count= 13.8|15.7sec  DPE=6778| 5%  DPET=5079  DPR=10.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1120  Crit=2340|2657|37.5%  Tick=1122
    shadow_bolt           Count= 63.6| 3.3sec  DPE=7102|26%  DPET=3392  DPR=10.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4770  Crit=9972|13073|44.8%
    unstable_affliction   Count= 17.5|15.5sec  DPE=9793|10%  DPET=7407  DPR=18.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=1790  CritTick=2766|3652|37.3%
   doomguard
    doomguard_melee       Count=173.7| 1.5sec  DPE=1957|19%  DPET=1263  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1941  Crit=3883|4143|13.3%  Glance=1456|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Player=Warlock_T8_54_00_17_INF  DPS=5818.1 (Error=+/-1.2 Range=+/-515)  DPR=19.4  RPS=299.6/235.2  (mana)
  Core Stats:  strength=59  agility=61  stamina=1186  intellect=968  spirit=541  health=17995  mana=20231
  Spell Stats:  power=2000  hit=11.1%  crit=18.4%  penetration=0  haste=15.2%  mp5=0
  Attack Stats:  power=737  hit=8.8%  crit=14.1%  expertise=0.0  penetration=0  haste=15.2%
  Actions:
    corruption            Count=  1.2|126.2sec  DPE=206633|16%  DPET=145138  DPR=406.5  Miss=0.0%  Tick=2317  CritTick=3579|4764|37.2%
    curse_of_agony        Count= 11.7|24.0sec  DPE=9796| 7%  DPET=7837  DPR=27.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=911
    drain_soul            Count=  7.1| 7.5sec  DPE=36092|16%  DPET=7348  DPR=71.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=14780
    haunt                 Count= 20.9|13.2sec  DPE=3363| 4%  DPET=2543  DPR= 7.7  Miss=0.0%  Hit=2751  Crit=4264|5380|40.4%
    immolate              Count= 13.8|15.8sec  DPE=6776| 6%  DPET=5077  DPR=10.3  Miss=0.0%  Hit=1120  Crit=2341|2657|37.5%  Tick=1122
    inferno               Count=  1.0| 0.0sec  DPE=4631| 0%  DPET=3702  DPR= 1.5  Miss=3.0%  Hit=3860  Crit=5949|7254|42.5%
    shadow_bolt           Count= 63.6| 3.3sec  DPE=7102|29%  DPET=3391  DPR=10.8  Miss=0.0%  Hit=4770  Crit=9971|13073|44.8%
    unstable_affliction   Count= 17.4|15.6sec  DPE=9804|11%  DPET=7414  DPR=18.0  Miss=0.0%  Tick=1791  CritTick=2768|3652|37.2%
   infernal
    immolation            Count= 17.3| 2.0sec  DPE= 636| 1%  DPET= 318  DPR= 1.$  Miss=13.9%  Hit= 739
    infernal_melee        Count= 21.5| 1.6sec  DPE=1422| 2%  DPET= 879  DPR= 1.$  Miss=8.0%  Hit=1522  Crit=3045|3045|13.9%  Glance=1142|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%
   succubus
    lash_of_pain          Count= 38.6| 6.2sec  DPE= 551| 1%  DPET= 334  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 547  Crit=1093|1162|13.3%  Glance= 410|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%
    succubus_melee        Count=147.2| 1.6sec  DPE= 691| 6%  DPET= 435  DPR= 1.$  Miss=0.0%  Hit= 685  Crit=1370|1461|13.3%  Glance= 514|24.0%  Dodge=6.5%

Mystearica · 02/28/09, 11:18 PM

For curiosity sake, how much would affliction jump up if they made pandemic's crit 200% dmg?

Malathar · 03/01/09, 3:33 AM

Originally Posted by ostoles

So, I wanted to see the exact results of the current builds along with a doomguard and succubus+infernal option. I believe a few people have requested this as well. This is with revision 1606 and all other actors mentioned aside from what is provided below is from the base profiles from simcraft repository.

You can't just give affliction a doomguard to let it be on top and not treat the other specs equally. You're test is highly biased! Redo it with equality!

Naforce · 03/01/09, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Malathar

You can't just give affliction a doomguard to let it be on top and not treat the other specs equally. You're test is highly biased! Redo it with equality!

The FG specs loose dps by using a doomguard, the deep destro specs has spent so many points on improving the imp the dps gain would be small. Although, please do the same test with all non-FG specs!

Bessa · 03/01/09, 6:46 AM

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

I just changed the code to let master conjuror give 4% instead of 1%, and 0/22/49 still comes out almost 200 DPS short of 5/13/53.

I think we have to assume that the %dmg buffs to the spellstones are not intended, 4.5% crit as well as 4% extra damage is too much to come from 2 talent points, 5 points i could understand.

Bessa · 03/01/09, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by henslaved

With the changes to Enslave Demon is it actually possible (assuming you're willing to manage it) to keep your Doomguard out indefinitely (assuming you don't die)?

Still despawns after a set amount of time, you cant keep it indefinatly.

Naforce · 03/01/09, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bessa

I think we have to assume that the %dmg buffs to the spellstones are not intended, 4.5% crit as well as 4% extra damage is too much to come from 2 talent points, 5 points i could understand.

If it's in the game, it's in the game. They could fix it so easily if it was a mistake. Also, you can always bring forth a new DG, no problem. So you can't really keep it indefinately, but you still can (almost) always have one.

Anyakfe · 03/01/09, 7:52 AM

Originally Posted by Mystearica

For curiosity sake, how much would affliction jump up if they made pandemic's crit 200% dmg?

I'm not sure I've done it the right way, but changing line 415 in sc_action.cpp to
tick_dmg *= 1.0 + total_crit_bonus()*2;

With 150% crit I got 5740dps
With 200% crit I got 5985dps

And, still for curiosity I've tried allowing CoA to crit (150%) and I got 5824dps.

with 10.000 iterations and using my character's stats.

Xeephran · 03/01/09, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by ostoles

So, I wanted to see the exact results of the current builds along with a doomguard and succubus+infernal option.

Your simulation results as well as the ones updated on the first page of this thread just confirm again and again what we have been saying all along: deep destrution talents just do not bring enough to the table dps wise. Even with the changes to the destruction tree, it is still not enough.
Or to put it another way: While the first 30 or so points in destruction are really good, the first 30 or so points in the other two trees add less dps wise, thus the number of hybrid/deep affliction/demonology specs which only dip into destruction for the good stuff.
I just hope Blizzard has still plans for the higher tiers of destruction, because as it is now, speccing deep destruction isn't really warranted.

Warlocomotif · 03/01/09, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Xeephran

Your simulation results as well as the ones updated on the first page of this thread just confirm again and again what we have been saying all along: deep destrution talents just do not bring enough to the table dps wise. Even with the changes to the destruction tree, it is still not enough.
Or to put it another way: While the first 30 or so points in destruction are really good, the first 30 or so points in the other two trees add less dps wise, thus the number of hybrid/deep affliction/demonology specs which only dip into destruction for the good stuff.
I just hope Blizzard has still plans for the higher tiers of destruction, because as it is now, speccing deep destruction isn't really warranted.

Take a look at the scale factors aswell though, destruction has some of the best looking scale factors across the board. While in T8 it might not quite be there yet, it could very well reach the top towards tier 9.

Sedona · 03/01/09, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by ostoles

So, I wanted to see the exact results of the current builds along with a doomguard and succubus+infernal option. I believe a few people have requested this as well. This is with revision 1606 and all other actors mentioned aside from what is provided below is from the base profiles from simcraft repository.

I find tests with the Doomguard to be problematic since the Doomguard isn't a practical pet for many fights. As I see it, he's only useful currently for Patchwerk. Will he really be viable for fights in Ulduar? In my opinion, probably not. So are people really going to spec 54/0/17 just to top the meters in one fight?

These parses do show most of the specs to be very close to one another. In my opinion, all specs are currently competitive, which is a good thing. So I think 54/0/17 will still be a spec that people will take considering that it is still competitive regardless and has the potential to become the top spec with the Doomguard.